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Mariners Squad - HAL 11 - 2015/2016

nebakke

Well-Known Member
I'd definitely have Uskok. There's value there (and that means that between Uskok, Ascroft, McGing and Posco there's a great little core for the future that will truly only get better).

Stella - not sold. Heff's going anyway. Bray I'd have, Buhagiar I'd have, and if I'm honest I wouldn't have Garcia. What he was *trying* on Sunday was outstanding, but what he was *achieving* made him our worst on the park. So many turnovers from pushing a pass that wasn't on or mishits. And he takes a player out of our defensive structure. He's class, but he doesn't fit.

Didn't really want to post, just to defend when I have no idea... But I'm doing it anyway ;)

I've stated it elsewhere, but I thought that every player was clearly off his game on the weekend. Based on his performance in the midfield role, up until now, I don't think this weekend was even close to representative of how he's faired so far.
With players performing reasonably (including himself) he would've been a lot better I reckon.

Having said that, I'm not convinced either, that there's great value to extending him... If we're going to rebuild, we should rebuild... If he's not returning though, we're back to needing a quality #10... I'd certainly rather Garcia than Stella at this point... But I'd much rather someone who can play 90 minutes consistently.
 

Luca Brasi

Well-Known Member
206/17 Squad

GK: Izzo; Heward Belle

Def: Rose; Poscoliero; Ascroft; Roux; McDonald; Neill;

Mid: McGing; Montgomery*; Rose; Kalik (on loan)

Att: Austin; O'Donovan*; Ferriera*; Fletcher; Bingham

* = visa

Opinion suggests we re-sign Uskok and Buhagier and sell Kalik.

18 in total on this basis.

Nobody seems convinced with Izzo and J Rose is not the player he was but unless they can be sold/moved on then they will be playing next season, and Kalik is not a done deal.

So at the moment we are looking for 4-5 players maximum with 2 visa spots open.

The club has shown a reluctance to spend more than 90% of the cap previously but reality dictates they need to invest more in 16/17 or risk ongoing viability.
How much is MC prepared to spend?
If the cap next year is $2.6m and the average club spend is cap + $250k (or + $400k as Adelaide have), and we have already committed $2.1m (guess), what will he spend? Which 4 - 5 players could we get for that spend? That needs to be the basis of the debate.
 

nebakke

Well-Known Member
I thought Heward-Belle was only ever meant to be the NYL keeper for a bit yet... He was just pulled up to first-team because Reddy is an arse.
Bearing that in mind, I don't see why we'd get rid of Bray... Tbh, I don't a new keeper would be very high on the club's list of players to recruit - irrespective whether it should be or not.
But I certainly don't see why we'd let Bray go - again, he performed well when given a chance... Bearing that in mind, how many keeper options are out there, that we know more about, that will also perform better, coming into the team?
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
if I'm honest I wouldn't have Garcia. What he was *trying* on Sunday was outstanding, but what he was *achieving* made him our worst on the park. So many turnovers from pushing a pass that wasn't on or mishits. And he takes a player out of our defensive structure. He's class, but he doesn't fit.

This guy could do a similar job as LG going forward & he doesn't mind getting stuck-in defensively ;)

Holman vows to give the A-League 'a real crack' if he returns:
holamnam.jpg


After 14 years abroad, the UAE-based attacker has been heavily tipped as the next high-profile Australian export to disembark in the domestic competition.


Holman, whose contract with Dubai’s Emirates Club expires in June, has fed the speculation and said if he returns to his roots there would be no half measures.

“I am still 31 and still feeling fit and flying,” said Holman, who is in his third year in the Gulf after a previous stint with Al Nasr preceded by a 15-month spell at Aston Villa and a decade in the Eredivisie.

“If you are talking about me (leaving Emirates Club) and coming to a different league and showing what I can still do, then it would have to be now rather than in two or three years.

“I’d be coming back to a competition (the A-League) which while I don’t know too much about it, it seems it’s developing with great force.”

Holman, who would likely attract interest from home-town clubs Sydney FC and Western Sydney Wanderers for a marquee spot, said: “You wouldn’t want to go back just to earn another contract … it would be about going back and making a big impression.”

Holman is aware of the pitfalls of former Socceroos returning home to great fanfare and then struggling to deliver as age and injuries took their toll.

It’s a fate which, to varying degrees, which affected golden generation players John Aloisi, Brett Emerton, Josip Skoko and Harry Kewell.

“If you are talking about a John Aloisi or a Harry Kewell, and these sorts of players, in one way you can say it’s not the easiest thing to come back,” Holman said.

“But if something did happen in my case I’d see it as an exciting challenge.

“At this moment there has been no contact with any A-League clubs but I am sure my agents will have their feelers out and I will definitely pursue any opportunities in Australia.

“As I said, I want to get something sorted as soon as possible, whether that’s in Australia or in the UAE with my club Emirates, then that’s the path I’ll take.

“There’s going to be speculation and things thrown around this time of year and especially when my contract is finishing up (in June).”

Holman, who began his career in the NSL with Parramatta Power, is mindful of the sensibilities at Emirates Club, for whom he has made 16 appearances this season, and has not shut the door on a contract extension, should it be proffered.

“In this region it’s not really a thing about talking before the end of the season,” he said.

“It’s usually a case get everything done and dusted in the season you are busy with and then we can always talk after that.

“Right now there is nothing major or concrete to look at … when it comes to the stage that there is something on the table, that’s when you take things seriously.

“I still have a contract here at Emirates and I don’t want to disrespect the club where I am at.

“I want to focus on the season as well as I can and I don’t want to go around and say I want to leave because this club has always done the right thing by me.

“That’s one side of things, and on the other hand clubs have to understand you are talking, but players who are free agents have to prepare for the next years as well.

"The clubs are important and you want to leave the right impression there if you do leave."

With a Dutch wife, and fond memories of his years at Excelsior, NEC Nijmegen and AZ Alkmaar, where he won a league crown in 2009, Holman also has the option of returning to the Eredivisie, as well as the joining a growing band of Australian in China, or elsewhere in Asia.
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
Sorry but if this continues we might still be very limited - the quote is from another thread

Still paying players who have left the club IS the biggest problem regarding what's available in Ca$h to pay current players.

Earning a '100%' wage you've just negotiated from the Wanderer's as well as a '50%' of your former wage on top of that from CCM, which was negotiated to 'get rid of you' ends up being a 'nice little earner' for a player ........ X that by 2 !!! and it's to our (CCM) detriment.

Apply the same system from above to a player who was on probably the biggest deal at the club and who was just 'sitting at home on the couch' until just recently picking up a gig with an NSWNPL club, he too is now getting 100% of an NPL wage plus 50% of his CCM wage. That has him 'crowing' all the way to the bank.

An ex NYL Coach sitting in the stands at the derby on the weekend, again STILL getting paid a wage every month.

Then the worst of it, an ex-international who left at the end of 2013/14 season, now playing 2nd Division in his homeland & STILL being paid.

Caceres seems to have had his contract paid out by the City Football Group +we got a fee.

Fitzgerald however is a completely different kettle of fish, may just have a similar fishy smell to it too???
God and MC only know. :-|

BUT what I do know is the lesson I've taken from all of this, in that whenever I read that a player has been released by the Central Coast Mariners I now know that there's the possibillity that, despite first appearances of seeing that player wearing another jersey for another team, underneath that jersey there COULD still be an 'umbilical cord' attached pumping him Y&B dollar'$. :cool:

My assumptions are

1) we don't have these restrictions then the possibilities are better
2) MC after restructuring the team and remodelling the back office is also looking experience and may look at a appropriate marquee
. If this does not happen then the rest falls to pieces as we do need a true #10
3) I would also look at a couple of youngsters outside the cap/squad size. These would be THB and Trent (I'm assuming Kalik will not be return but if he does he can also be in this area)

Keepers - I am loathe to let Bray go because on the little I have seen of him he seems to be a very good keeper so he would stay for mine as I can't see us looking at a more expensive keeper.

In the backs and HM I would be keen to keep Uskok and try to get both Rhys William and Chris Herd. These two can both play CB as well as HM and can also cover RB. Given that this is likely to be Monty is likely to only be around for 1 more season getting both of these two gives us cover for CB and for Monty's aging body and also offers a first choice RB.

Out wide I think Trent and Jake Adelson can be good backups for Mitch and Fab.

At CAM I expect to see Kalik go, I would not keep Stella but we need a true number 10 and a backup. The backup I would like to see is Bradden Inman. The marquee #10 I would like to go for is Brett Holman.

I know many would not agree but with Austin, Fab, Holman and Roy hassling up front we will get a lot of turnovers. Trent and Jake are also very quick and Bingers is no slouch so the press should be able to be maintained a lot better than this year. The other thing that Holman brings is that he can also play Striker, LW and RW.

So re-sign - Bray, Uskok, Buhagiar

Buy - Williams, Herd, Holman, Inman, Adelson

Sell if possible

Kalik

My other change for this year is let Micky plat at LB for the rest of the year . Rosey Snr to go to the bench. He can cover Micky if he gets injured or if Micky needs to be pushed into midfield and can also cover LW.
 
Last edited:

Wombat

Well-Known Member
And how are you going to get people out of their existing contracts / extend the squad limit *and* find the money to pay for new starters when you're benching existing starters? Not to mention fitting these people under the cap (if you're moving on cheapies and replacing them with people costing three times as much we'll have issues faster than you can say Perth Glory three times).

I'm giving my opinion on what we need to compete and on who I see as being at the required standard right now.
The current starters are not good enough and that is why we are getting the wooden spoon and setting records of dross at every turn.
I know the club can't afford to cut the duds they have signed to 2 year contracts...I.e Izzo and Fletcher etc.
9 new players will never happen but that is what would be great in a Utopian Football world.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Moving on the cheapies isn't the only problem. It's getting rid of most/all the cheapies and replacing them with exxy players.

It's not going to happen.

If we take Coach's maths, we've got maybe about $600k or so to spend. That's enough to get a few handy players, but won't replace 2/3 of the starting lineup.
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
Could be another long and tough season.
I guess an international and local marquee could solve a lot of our problems...
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Life's easy as long as we don't have constraints. Like contract law, squad limits, contract budgets, etc.
 
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JoyfulPenguin

Well-Known Member
Adam Sarota: Central Midfielder
The 27 year old is currently in the Dutch second division with recently relegated Go Ahead Eagles. The former Roar starlet played an important role in the Brisbane side's record breaking undefeated streak. In early 2010 he along with Michael Zullo and Tommy Oar joined Utrecht. He played 46 games in his first two seasons at Utrecht before breaking his ACL. On his way back from injury he was loaned back to the Roar for the final portion of the 2014-15 season. He underwhelmed during his time back in the A-League and was subsequently released when he returned to Utrecht. He will most likely not be retained by Go Ahead and could be an experienced and decent option for us especially if he could get back to his form before his ACL.

Josh Brillante
Central Midfielder, Right Back
Former scummer who got a dream move to Fioretenia and played two games before being loaned to Empoli and Como in Serie B. Played 11 games with Como so far this season mostly off the bench and his contract runs out at the end of this season. Would be a good A-League experienced player and I don't think we would have too much competition for his signature.
 

soccer mad

Well-Known Member
Read a great interview with Milan Ivanovic former soccerroo and ex adelaide United nsl on worldgame . He apparently is still active in young development programs in SA . He was asked about our current development and a league,he made some strong assessment. He felt we not developing enough young talent ,because of management preasure in the a league, and also the gap is widening in the state league the and the kids struggle with the transition because of the speed of the game. He feels genuine competition and 2nd tier comp with relegation.
The mariners can really be the club with strong youth programs and academies. What happened to Klut from the roar ,aloisi is using more veterans the youth as example.
With good vision and expert trainers we be the answer
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Why not drop the number of allowable visa players and raise the number of required youth players? Why is promotion and relegation the solution?

It seems to be the default answer to every question about what's wrong with football, but if you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
 

nebakke

Well-Known Member
Why not drop the number of allowable visa players and raise the number of required youth players? Why is promotion and relegation the solution?

It seems to be the default answer to every question about what's wrong with football, but if you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I think the fear would be that fiddling with the player requirements, we risk just creating a larger NYL... You want a balance where you also try to ensure that the younger players actually play against quality, experienced opposition.

I've preached this sort of thing before but, one of the prime drivers for setting up the A-league, was the consistent failure of the Socceroos to perform in-between the World Cup in the 70s and then again in Germany in 2006... The stated aim was to support and expand the development of quality players in Australia.
Somewhere along the way, everyone seem to have lost sight of that and just refocused on the "normal" view of the league being all about entertainment and income.
Long term, I think promo/rel is the best approach for development... It helps breach the gap between the clubs in the lower leagues and the higher leagues, by actually bringing them in to play in the higher leagues for a while, overall I'm a firm believer that it settles everyone at a higher level.

I suppose though, that expansion could be done together with promo/rel... There was talk, at one point, of a model which sees 2 or 4 teams qualify from the NPL with no rel for the existing A-league teams, to help the owners protect their investment.
In the long term, I think it's a bit dodgy, but it might function well as a sweetener for the pot.

Maybe a conference-type system... Two NPL groups with the top two from each of the NPL divisions playing off against each other for access to four spots in the A-league or something along those lines?
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
P&R is a proposed solution to this particular problem.

The issue with that is that I don't see how it solves the problem, and I don't see how we get around the large number of new problems it creates.

That aim of the A-League being all about development, and not income and entertainment? That's a great idea if someone else is paying the bill.

If all a business needed to do was R&D and promise a great product down the line, then capitalism would be very different.

The league must sell tickets and attract broadcast revenues to survive.

That's not losing sight of the problem, it's focussing on the problem which must be solved before any others.

Promotion and relegation is a neat idea, with certain preconditions.

There needs to be a second tier to which a top-tier club can be relegated and not immediately collapse and a second tier club's operations can simply scale up rather than build from scratch.

The playing standard must be high enough that players from relegated clubs won't all immediately leave, and promoted players need to be able to compete.

Standard player contracts need to be written so that clubs can transfer players in and out effectively (not all players will cross the divide and clubs can't be freezing players out to get them to quit!) and there need to be transition provisions that cover changes in minimum wages between divisions.

And there needs to be enough attention that someone out there wants to watch it, so a broadcaster might kick in some cash.

Basically, we're looking at a mini A-League. Minimum criteria need to be set on facilities, structure of business (including key personnel), technical standards, finances (including minimum capital requirements), and the list would go on...

And we've got to get at least 8, probably 10, clubs up to speed and a new league for them to play in.

Basically, to 'solve' a player development problem (and I still have no earthly clue how it solves the problem, let alone how it's the best solution) we create for ourselves a whole new set of problems.

For people who fancy they might be one of the 8-10 clubs, or people who fancy they can guess who the 8-10 clubs might be and prefer them to the likes of the Mariners, or even just people who go "they do it everywhere else", it might seem a nice solution.

But we are a very long way away from getting that up. If we wanted to 'bridge' the gap between the national and state leagues right now, the fastest way is to drop the standard of the national league.

And for all the disruption, it doesn't solve the problem of kids getting a run.

I don't see it stopping top-tier managers who are desperate to avoid the drop ignoring the kids on their bench for experienced fighters to get them out of a jam.

I don't see it stopping second-tier managers who are desperate for promotion ignoring the kids on their bench for experienced fighters to get them up the ladder.

I see better solutions in setting up structures that both restrict the number of old journeymen that get a gig and reward clubs who play youth (as are already in place through the loyalty bonuses and youth concessions in the salary cap).

P&R is just one proposed solution to a problem that creates a bunch of new problems.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Sorry but if this continues we might still be very limited - the quote is from another thread


My assumptions are

1) we don't have these restrictions then the possibilities are better
2) MC after restructuring the team and remodelling the back office is also looking experience and may look at a appropriate marquee
. If this does not happen then the rest falls to pieces as we do need a true #10
3) I would also look at a couple of youngsters outside the cap/squad size. These would be THB and Trent (I'm assuming Kalik will not be return but if he does he can also be in this area)

Keepers - I am loathe to let Bray go because on the little I have seen of him he seems to be a very good keeper so he would stay for mine as I can't see us looking at a more expensive keeper.

In the backs and HM I would be keen to keep Uskok and try to get both Rhys William and Chris Herd. These two can both play CB as well as HM and can also cover RB. Given that this is likely to be Monty is likely to only be around for 1 more season getting both of these two gives us cover for CB and for Monty's aging body and also offers a first choice RB.

Out wide I think Trent and Jake Adelson can be good backups for Mitch and Fab.

At CAM I expect to see Kalik go, I would not keep Stella but we need a true number 10 and a backup. The backup I would like to see is Bradden Inman. The marquee #10 I would like to go for is Brett Holman.

I know many would not agree but with Austin, Fab, Holman and Roy hassling up front we will get a lot of turnovers. Trent and Jake are also very quick and Bingers is no slouch so the press should be able to be maintained a lot better than this year. The other thing that Holman brings is that he can also play Striker, LW and RW.

So re-sign - Bray, Uskok, Buhagiar

Buy - Williams, Herd, Holman, Inman, Adelson

Sell if possible

Kalik

My other change for this year is let Micky plat at LB for the rest of the year . Rosey Snr to go to the bench. He can cover Micky if he gets injured or if Micky needs to be pushed into midfield and can also cover LW.

You got my vote ... Buy - Williams, Herd, Holman, Inman, Adelson and agree re-sign - Bray, Uskok, Buhagiar ... that could make us a very strong side whether we have the funds ... and IMO a new coach is needed to get those players to sign ... I would add that leeds kid from Sydney Berry ... Holman would be in the centre of the park for me I saw him play in CM type positions in Europe and he has a soft touch under pressure...
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
Adam Sarota: Central Midfielder
The 27 year old is currently in the Dutch second division with recently relegated Go Ahead Eagles. The former Roar starlet played an important role in the Brisbane side's record breaking undefeated streak. In early 2010 he along with Michael Zullo and Tommy Oar joined Utrecht. He played 46 games in his first two seasons at Utrecht before breaking his ACL. On his way back from injury he was loaned back to the Roar for the final portion of the 2014-15 season. He underwhelmed during his time back in the A-League and was subsequently released when he returned to Utrecht. He will most likely not be retained by Go Ahead and could be an experienced and decent option for us especially if he could get back to his form before his ACL.

Josh Brillante
Central Midfielder, Right Back
Former scummer who got a dream move to Fioretenia and played two games before being loaned to Empoli and Como in Serie B. Played 11 games with Como so far this season mostly off the bench and his contract runs out at the end of this season. Would be a good A-League experienced player and I don't think we would have too much competition for his signature.

Both average...no better than what we have imho.
 

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