Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

[sydmariner]

I wonder if it's the same people that are doing that big project @ warnervale.

 

[adz]

Probably. There aren't that many people in China, so it must be the same people.

 

[gull]

Probably. There aren't that many people in China, so it must be the same people.

Harsh .

 

[sydmariner]

Probably. There aren't that many people in China, so it must be the same people.

They recently did abolish their 1 child policy

 

[dibo]

Another fine contribution Syd.

 

[Timmah]

MC was asked about this today at the CoE by Erin Morrow and said it was complete "BS".

Puts that to bed.

 

[Atomic]

On a slightly different note, a quote on twitter from Ray Gatt: "Had interesting chat with Mike Charlesworth today. Says he regrets not getting a marquee earlier. promises he will try for one next season"

Good stuff. Kind of implies that King Luis wont be the marquee though... hope I'm wrong.

 

[dibo]

MC was asked about this today at the CoE by Erin Morrow and said it was complete "BS".

Puts that to bed.

If Erin was asking if there was an offer on the table, then that answer's probably right.

That's not really the right question though. That doesn't make a liar of Cockerill - his article isn't talking about concrete offers. It's talking about possibilities.

Charlesworth might need to consider what his options are in the eventuality that someone wants to buy the club. He might want to think about how he plays that.

• If a potential purchaser does rock up, and they come in and want the club only, where does that leave the COE?
• If they come in and want the club and the COE, what does he do?
• If they come in and want to pour capital in to get the access but don't necessarily want to take his stake on, how does he take that?
• What does he value the club and the COE at right now (individually or as a job lot), and how is that number influenced by the next TV deal (and in particular its impact on future cashflows for the club)?

There's a lot to think about, and he might need at least some sort of strategy if not concrete answers for these things.

On a slightly different note, a quote on twitter from Ray Gatt: "Had interesting chat with Mike Charlesworth today. Says he regrets not getting a marquee earlier. promises he will try for one next season"

Good stuff. Kind of implies that King Luis wont be the marquee though... hope I'm wrong.

If you *were* looking for a buyer overseas, it's a great way of boosting the brand recognition...

 

[nebakke]

If Erin was asking if there was an offer on the table, then that answer's probably right.

That's not really the right question though. That doesn't make a liar of Cockerill - his article isn't talking about concrete offers. It's talking about possibilities.

Charlesworth might need to consider what his options are in the eventuality that someone wants to buy the club. He might want to think about how he plays that.

• If a potential purchaser does rock up, and they come in and want the club only, where does that leave the COE?
• If they come in and want the club and the COE, what does he do?
• If they come in and want to pour capital in to get the access but don't necessarily want to take his stake on, how does he take that?
• What does he value the club and the COE at right now (individually or as a job lot), and how is that number influenced by the next TV deal (and in particular its impact on future cashflows for the club)?

There's a lot to think about, and he might need at least some sort of strategy if not concrete answers for these things.


If you *were* looking for a buyer overseas, it's a great way of boosting the brand recognition...

Charlesworth actually did touch on this on the podcast.
He said that, if a suitable, substantial offer was tabled, then obviously he'd have to consider it, but that ideally he'd be looking for someone to go into a partnership with him.
On a whole though, he's not actively looking for a buyer as he's happy owning the club as it stands.

 

[nebakke]

Good stuff. Kind of implies that King Luis wont be the marquee though... hope I'm wrong.

Dunno - I took that to mean that he wishes he'd gotten one earlier and that he might like to have one next season... Doesn't mean that LG won't be it... Just doesn't mean that he will either - probably worth seeing where this season takes him

 

[Timmah]

Having met Mike and having had conversations with him, I have no doubt he's passionate about the future of the club.

 

[Big Al]

The Russians Chinese are coming!

*********

Central Coast Mariners and Newcastle Jets may become first A-League clubs to become Chinese owned
January 24, 2016 - 9:24PM

Michael Cockerill
Football Writer

Interesting times: After Tim Cahill and the Socceroos showed China how it's done on the field, will Australian football repeat that off the field on the back on Chinese investment in Australia. Photo: AP

Football in Australia has something Chinese football wants – honesty, knowledge and achievement – and they're willing to pay for it. Football in China has something Australia desperately needs – money.

This is the partnership which can transform the domestic game above all else.The only uncertainty is how and when it happens.

If Chinese investors can buy strategic northern Australian ports, enormous tracts of prime farmland in northern NSW, and the priciest mansions on Sydney harbour, what's stopping them owning A-League clubs? Nothing at all.

And after a decade of kicking the tyres it seems they're finally ready to buy. It's the IP they want most of all.

For the best part of two decades, huge riches have poured into Chinese football. Billions. All the Chinese game has to show for it is a couple of Asian Champions League titles with Guangzhou Evergrande – achieved almost entirely because of foreign players and coaches – and not much else.

Corruption and match-fixing hasn't helped.

Ritual humiliation at national team level has become a deep scar, and there's even a chance China will fail to progress beyond the current stage of World Cup qualifying yet again.

Forthcoming home ties against Maldives and Qatar could still get them out of jail, but scoreless draws both home and "away" against minnows Hong Kong underline the enduring weakness of the homegrown game.

Eventually, the culture – that's the football culture – has to change.

With the highest political authorities in Beijing having made it clear that getting better at the world game is not an option, it's a must, things are on the move. Improving the development pathway, improving coach education, improving strength and conditioning programs, provide the foundation to produce better players. Which is where Australia comes into play.

Within the space of eight months between mid-2014 and this time last year, Western Sydney Wanderers eliminated Guangzhou Evergrande from the ACL, and the Socceroos eliminated China from the Asian Cup.

Money and resources didn't make the difference. Coaching, fitness, strength and endeavour did. It was a lesson well noted in Beijing.

Sometime this year, perhaps even within the next few months, there's every chance both Central Coast Mariners and Newcastle Jets will become Chinese-owned.

On a global level, even an Asian level, the buy-in price of around $5 million is dirt cheap.

In return – in terms of establishing a bridgehead in Australia and using it to listen and learn – the Chinese are confident the rewards will soon outweigh the investment.

It's how the Chinese operate in so many other Australian industries. Knowledge is king. Why should football be any different?

For the domestic game, the balancing act is to give up just enough of the IP to make the relationship genuine and worthwhile, but not too much. Closer ties with Chinese football have multiple advantages, but it's still important to retain the competitive edge. On the field, and off it.

Early next month in Adelaide, we're likely to get an interesting indication of exactly where that benchmark stands. Adelaide United's likely play-off opponents for the 2016 edition of the ACL are almost certain to be Shandong Luneng, who see the Champions League as a huge priority.

Despite Shandong's ambition, and their money, history tells us not to write off the Reds.

In fact it's a dead heat in the overall head-to-head record between Australian and Chinese clubs in the ACL.

If you can't beat them, buy them. Perhaps that at least partly explains the Chinese interest in the Mariners and the Jets. But it's a much bigger picture than that.

Let's be frank, the Chinese aren't likely to join forces with South Korea or Japan as they seek to build a new, better, generation of footballers.

Although both countries have a lot to offer, the historical enmity still runs deep.

Australia is a different story. There are mutual benefits, and less distrust. Right now, Australia has the edge, but one day the balance of power might shift if the power follows the money.

Can football in Australia still get better, smarter AND richer if it enters into a new era of co-operation with the Chinese?

Let's see.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...nese-owned-20160124-gmcz4p.html#ixzz3yDor4A4I

Is he basing that on Sainsburys agent?

 

[Ancient Mariner]

If Erin was asking if there was an offer on the table, then that answer's probably right.

That's not really the right question though. That doesn't make a liar of Cockerill - his article isn't talking about concrete offers. It's talking about possibilities.

Charlesworth might need to consider what his options are in the eventuality that someone wants to buy the club. He might want to think about how he plays that.

• If a potential purchaser does rock up, and they come in and want the club only, where does that leave the COE?

No interest

• If they come in and want the club and the COE, what does he do?

$12m thank you

• If they come in and want to pour capital in to get the access but don't necessarily want to take his stake on, how does he take that?

Yes please

• What does he value the club and the COE at right now (individually or as a job lot), and how is that number influenced by the next TV deal (and in particular its impact on future cashflows for the club)?

See above
There's a lot to think about, and he might need at least some sort of strategy if not concrete answers for these things.


If you *were* looking for a buyer overseas, it's a great way of boosting the brand recognition...

 

[dibo]

$12m seems courageously optimistic given the City Football Group paid only $10.5m for *all* of Melbourne Heart.

Granted, we're a big club and they just take our off-cuts, but still...

 

[VicMariner]

$12m seems courageously optimistic given the City Football Group paid only $10.5m for *all* of Melbourne Heart.

Granted, we're a big club and they just take our off-cuts, but still...

Heart didn't have a COE.

 

[Paolo]

It may not be on the mark for us, but the Jets did have a meeting with Chinese investors last week who are already involved with a CSL club.

 

[dibo]

It's an interesting thing - we actually have some strategic advantages:

• We'll be able to do property development cheaper (cheaper land)
• Our players can be housed cheaper
• Our local marketing is waaaaaaay cheaper
• Our community engagement is cheaper (smaller community) and we reach more of it with less
• We're still close to Sydney, so it's a plausible commute (if you fancy) but more realistically it's a short day trip if you have something to do
• Our average crowds (long term) are around 9k - very similar to City, but in a stadium that's relatively cheap to run and we're probably less reliant on derbies from our one big neighbour - we've got three neighbours to help!

For both us and the Jets, there are a number of strategic opportunities that make us pretty attractive. The downside is obvious:

• Population population population! 300k or 500k are both way smaller than 4m
• Smaller economies = fewer corporate dollars
• Smaller player base to draw into academies etc.:
  • Central Coast has about 15k players
  • Newcastle has about 25k players
  • Melbourne has about 60k registered players
  • Sydney has 160k players!

But all in all, the property opportunities are probably the lynchpin for us - Gosford is a potential goldmine if people have the capital.

That could set you up as an icon just as much as BHP was in Newcastle.

You could make a huge impression in less than a decade that sets you up as a regional mega-brand and makes a massive difference to the region.

 

[nebakke]

You could make a huge impression in less than a decade that sets you up as a regional mega-brand and makes a massive difference to the region.

It's not football in-roads, but it's brand recognition. I was just sitting in the car this morning, listening to the radio, when an ad came on for the "Mariners Medical Centre" that's opening up in the CoE this year.
Had me thinking about the spread of the brand, if businesses are using it as part of their naming based on location as well as branding. I'm thinking it could create a situation where the CoE becomes a driving force behind the growth of brand recognition on the coast... Not a bad thing I reckon

 

[Big Al]

Does it become the whole GFC with living outside our means and when they decide they have had enough we are left with an unfundable team?

Chinese money sounds great but how reliable is it? What if the government decides football isn't important any more.

Rumours of the government reducing the amount of money available for overseas investment in the property game because they want the money kept in China to prop up there economy.

Australia is naturally cautious of China. Yeah a lot of businesses have chased the cash without consequences

Look at the community distrust with Wyong council over this theme park. I don't get why they would even want it there little (Chinese)

What do we prefer being a struggler focused on youth or a development club for China.

Maybe some tie in where we get there money without selling our soul would be good.

 

[Pirate Pete]

I see the Chinese are now sponsoring the Portuguese second division. They tried to get a clause which said every team had to have a Chinese player
but have since backed down on it.

Still, if the Chinese are looking to invest in Australia to develop their own game I would have thought the Mariners would be idea with the COE.