The COVID Chat

[Ancient Mariner]

Everyone needs to be vaccinated not just front line workers. Who do you think they're catching it from?

But yes i agree front line should have priority and denying it to someone working on a testing facility is plain stupid.

Actually there shouldn't be any need for priority, we should have been vaccinating people while we had no cases, not this mad rush and under supply of vaccines.

Then again would they have gone to waste since a lot of people didn't want the vaccine while there were no cases. "Let's just wait and see if there's a zombie apocalypse from the vaccine". Now they're desperate for it.

What i did find surprising was something like 20% of health workers have refused to have it.

Appropriate vaccines have always been in short supply. I was keen to get any vaccine asap. I managed to get myself classed as 1b due to what I thought was a pretty flimsy reason and still had to wait until the end of May before my first AZ shot. My wife was not eligible to June. Around that time they found the rare but serious clotting side effect caused by AZ. This risk became higher if you were younger and if you were female and with the low levels of Covid in the community the risk of the vaccine was higher than the risk of catching Covid and then having serious complications. Therefore the AZ vaccine was only available to those over the age of 60 years.

As the delta variant appeared and began to spread in our community the risk of catching Covid also increased which overtime led to the risk from Covid being greater than the risk from AZ for younger members of our population. Therefore the recommendations have changed and recently (last month or so) under 40s have become eligible for any vaccine.

Many in our society cannot work out the risk factors for themselves and think that it is better to wait for Pfizer even when AZ is available. It is not, get whatever is available asap. There are some who have medical conditions that make it necessary for them to have Pfizer rather than AZ. I know one person in this position who is unable to attend a hub and has a to wait 8 weeks before the first shot.

I think if you search hard enough there are many who for whatever reason have not been able to get their two shots yet for full vaccination yet. Mostly this has been caused by eligibility of age and they are now on their way.
You will find a small proportion of the population who will refuse vaccination for whatever strange belief. Nature has a way of reducing this number.

That is a rant BG.

 

[bikinigirl]

We may have extra ventilators and a few more beds, but you obviously have no idea how much is required in the way of specialised human resources are required to care for each patient in ICU. Those manning ICU units are extensively trained and not to be found at the drop of a hat at your local dole lineup.

I had reason recently to call an ambulance for a family member. The ambulance took about 30 minutes to arrive. All ended up ok. On past occasions when called (few thankfully) it has been under 10 minutes. I spoke to the ambos and they had been run off their feet going immediately from one call to the next. Add in the time they now have to suit up in full fresh protective gear for each call and you may start to understand.
You do not find fully stocked ambulances and fully trained medics at the drop of a hat either.

The health system is fully stretched at the moment and in certain places (see Mick's post) definitely overloaded. It will get worse in the next couple of months.

Get some years in and also try and keep yourself fully informed from reliable sources before you make calls of possible bullshit in difficult times.

Also do your best not to require quick admittance to casualty or an icu in the near future.

. and to put some of those numbers into context:

• the number of patients in hospital across NSW at the moment (based on numbers supplied by NSW Health) is the equivalent of two Gosford hospitals worth ... two whole hospitals full of covid patients kinda takes up a bit of the slack i reckon
• the current number of covid cases in NSW receiving Intensive Care in hospitals is more than 10 times the ICU capacity of Gosford hospital ... about 11.5 full hospital IC units with nothing but covid patients

 

[Wombat]

Appropriate vaccines have always been in short supply. I was keen to get any vaccine asap. I managed to get myself classed as 1b due to what I thought was a pretty flimsy reason and still had to wait until the end of May before my first AZ shot. My wife was not eligible to June. Around that time they found the rare but serious clotting side effect caused by AZ. This risk became higher if you were younger and if you were female and with the low levels of Covid in the community the risk of the vaccine was higher than the risk of catching Covid and then having serious complications. Therefore the AZ vaccine was only available to those over the age of 60 years.

As the delta variant appeared and began to spread in our community the risk of catching Covid also increased which overtime led to the risk from Covid being greater than the risk from AZ for younger members of our population. Therefore the recommendations have changed and recently (last month or so) under 40s have become eligible for any vaccine.

Many in our society cannot work out the risk factors for themselves and think that it is better to wait for Pfizer even when AZ is available. It is not, get whatever is available asap. There are some who have medical conditions that make it necessary for them to have Pfizer rather than AZ. I know one person in this position who is unable to attend a hub and has a to wait 8 weeks before the first shot.

I think if you search hard enough there are many who for whatever reason have not been able to get their two shots yet for full vaccination yet. Mostly this has been caused by eligibility of age and they are now on their way.
You will find a small proportion of the population who will refuse vaccination for whatever strange belief. Nature has a way of reducing this number.

That is a rant BG.

A good rant though.

 

[pjennings]

. and to put some of those numbers into context:

• the number of patients in hospital across NSW at the moment (based on numbers supplied by NSW Health) is the equivalent of two Gosford hospitals worth ... two whole hospitals full of covid patients kinda takes up a bit of the slack i reckon
• the current number of covid cases in NSW receiving Intensive Care in hospitals is more than 10 times the ICU capacity of Gosford hospital ... about 11.5 full hospital IC units with nothing but covid patients

To also add to the context. Our NSW Health already have interstate nurses from other states such as WA. A large number of nurses (non ICU) are involved in Covid testing and vaccination clinics. As a result they are not available for non Covid patients. So it is not just the Covid wards that are under pressure. The whole NSW Health system is.

 

[marinermick]

It won’t get better. The next few weeks will be dire for Sydney’s hospitals for the following reasons:

- 8000 of the 21000 active cases are new cases from the last week. Given case numbers are going up and hospitalisation occurs in the second week of illness this will only burden the hospitals more.
- Some of the lower vaccination rates in Sydney are in areas that have the most cases e.g. Punchbowl, Auburn etc.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

A good rant though.

Not worth having a rant unless you go all out.

 

[Corsair]

We may have extra ventilators and a few more beds, but you obviously have no idea how much is required in the way of specialised human resources are required to care for each patient in ICU.

So according to my elder (therefore better and more qualified to hold an opinion) we're under prepared, under resourced and the health system IS about to collapse. Gladys is on the money, the sky is falling in and it's Hazzard that's bullshitting.

 

[Corsair]

Our health system is far from world class

Hazzard actually went a step further and said the NSW health system is the best in the world during this press conference.

Hazzard: NSW health system is ‘probably the best in the world’

Health Minister Brad Hazzard says New South Wales probably has the "best health system in the world” but individual hospitals will be under stress from time to time. “All the information given to me from the doctors and nurses and our public health staff is that yes the system is coping,” he...

www.skynews.com.au

This is what I'm on about, how can you trust what these public figures say when they come out with this sort of stuff.

Posturing/spin like this causes doubt to creep in over other issues, you end up wondering if they're telling the truth about anything.

He also said they stepped up icu staff Feb last year. We're all good and don't worry, busy and under pressure but can cope.

Anyway I'm pleased to see our first jab vax rate over 70%, at least that's positive news, even though it doesn't include children.

 

[Wombat]

Dobbie, If you believe the NSW Govt or the Media 100% then you are delusional. Its all about trying to read between the lines. Sometimes your local member, if hungry will be far more truthful. 95% of the clowns on Facebook are fanciful but every now and then you will find a truthful and clued up person.

 

[greenlig]

Posturing/spin like this causes doubt to creep in over other issues, you end up wondering if they're telling the truth about anything.

I absolutely agree, it’s entirely legitimate to be sceptical of pollies. The political class are all about maintaining existing power structures, some, like our current gov, more blatantly than others. Fortunately we haven't seen in Aus what the yanks have for the last 4 odd years, our pollies tend to stick a bit closer to the facts. That's where spin comes in - enough factual basis to get away with an outrageous statement or policy decision that maintains whatever power structure they are in support of.

The whole meme is, none of the above demands the opposite of what they say is true. Distrust of our leaders doesn't mean when they say vaccines = good it really means vaccines = bad. There's too much extant science and professional support of those facts.

I don't take pollies words as either 100% aligned with or opposed to the facts. Better to turn to the indiference of scientific consensus when in doubt. It's the best tool we have for understanding things as they are without political spin.

 

[marinermick]

I work in health and have dealings with the health system and I can tell you it is stretched beyond imagination and under resourced.

I know many doctors and nurses who have to fill in two or three roles. NSW Health and the local health districts leave vacancies going longer deliberately just to save money. These gaps from these vacancies have to be taken up by existing staff who are stressed and over worked.

The waiting lists for elective surgeries in public hospitals were shameful even before Covid came along. Now many are being postponed indefinitely. Imagine having to wait almost two years to get your ACL done and then having it postponed. A guy in our football team has had essential heart surgery postponed until next year.

Up to last year Royal North Shore were using paper records for their patients.

What you have had is a huge investment in infrastructure over the last decade. New hospitals, new facilities at existing hospitals etc. However, there has been little money given to support this new infrastructure on an ongoing basis.

Hazard is a dick. Far right Murdoch lackey in the vein of Abbot. God help us if he ever comes to power. It will be more lies and incompetence than Trump. As much as Gladys has had her failings (and there has been more lately), many of her failings has been to placate her right faction. If we were to have a Lib n power we are lucky to have a moderate one in her. Someone like Hazard would have caused thousands of more deaths.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

So according to my elder (therefore better and more qualified to hold an opinion) we're under prepared, under resourced and the health system IS about to collapse. Gladys is on the money, the sky is falling in and it's Hazzard that's bullshitting.

Not at all.
I never said the health system is about to collapse, nor did I say we are under resourced.
What I am saying is that we are better resourced with specialist equipment, but that you cannot build a massively complicated organisation that is an ICU to be sufficient to cope with all possible eventualities in a short period of time.
We do have an excellent health system and the sky is not falling in.
However it is under severe pressure at the moment and that pressure will grow and the system will be stretched even more in the future.
Many ICUs will be full and patients will have to be shuffled between hospitals and ambulances redirected to hospitals that are distant and probably not the most appropriate. But the system will not collapse.
There will be unsatisfactory outcomes and tragedies. It will not be a good time to become seriously ill or damaged.

You are trying to see things in black and white when the world is really different shades of grey.
Politicians use those varying shades of grey to put the best spin on any controversial issue. They are not necessarily wrong, bullshitting or lying. As pointed out above, it is spin.
That is why it is important for anyone at the moment to find reputable sources of facts and then working out your own interpretation of what the truth is.

If you wish to understand politicians and our political system, I suggest you search for and watch the series "Yes Minister". Many at the time of its release thought it was a comedy. In actual fact it was really an excellent series of training films with some comedy thrown in.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

One thing you will also find is that some pollies are more competent than others. See Mick's above post.
I also do not class Trump as a politician. He was an opportunist who formed a mutualism with Rupert Murdoch, played upon peoples' prejudices and has just about destroyed the USA.
I also do not class any of Murdoch's media empire as a reputable source of facts. It is a vehicle used by a twisted individual to influence the those in power for his own benefit and megalomanic beliefs.

 

[bikinigirl]

I also do class any of Murdoch's media empire as a reputable source of facts. It is a vehicle used by a twisted individual to influence the those in power for his own benefit and megalomanic beliefs.

. oh and you were doing so well

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Oops left out one word. Fixed, thx.
It was early and I did not have my eyes properly open.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

The WHO has declared another variant of Covid 19 to be of interest, now bringing the total to five.

Covid-19

The virus itself is called 2019-nCoV, though it is often referred to as the novel coronavirus by the WHO. It has also been called the new coronavirus or 2019 coronavirus, and in the media it is often just called the coronavirus.

www.newscientist.com

 

[pjennings]

Worth a read

Exclusive: Covid-19 hospitalisations three times higher than reported

Victoria and NSW are at a crisis point, with Covid-19 hospitalisations being underreported and cascading impacts on ambulance services and medical staffing.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

 

[greenlig]

(11 pages in and mostly civil discussion around turbo sensitive topics. Go us ?)

 

[Ancient Mariner]

About time for someone to suggest that we shift 4 home games to North Sydney Oval and Wombat and I can go 10 rounds in an exhibition bout.

Off season is a pain.

 

[Ironbark]

(11 pages in and mostly civil discussion around turbo sensitive topics. Go us ?)

I've been impressed. Rational too!