Manny_ccm
Well-Known Member
Monty explained the same to me after the game
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Rd CCMariners v Broar
- Thread starter Gratis
- Start date
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
From where I was sitting (high up) it definitely looked like he was clipped. All around agreed.
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Good summary. I don't know who else TW can try as a #10 but Fitz is definitely not the answer.
I think we must stay with Cac in that role until we find a true #10.
Although I believe Cac is definitely a DM and would shine with someone like Jedi beside him. Unfortunately he has to play out of position as he is our best option at the moment. In the last couple of games he has tried to lay on a couple of through balls but his touch let him down.
However he does work well with Fab and if he can stop getting caught deep he may yet develop. A steep learning curve.
Like strikers good #10s are scarce.
nebakke
Well-Known Member
Yeah... I have to say, sitting behind the bench is giving me a whole new view on these goings on.
Roy copped quite a bit of abuse from the people around me, for sitting too far back at one point.
Thing is, I saw Tony actually directing him there early in the first half. Walmsley is nowhere near as noisy as Arnie but i think he communicates with the team a lot more than are aware.
Monty also came over for a drink and a quick chat just before he was pulled off. I was figuring there was something going in that exchange too.
It can be frustrating but it's probably worth remembering that there can be more than one reason why players are swapped.
One thing i really struggle to abide - i was on my high horse about that last season too - is whining at players and the bench during the game.
The f-wit who yelled out to bench Roy when he came over for the drink break - that's just f****** stupid. It's not exactly going to inspire them to step it up is it?
Carry it to after the game if you must, but don't undermine a potentially already low confidence in the middle of the bloody game - even if you're frustrated and disappointed.
nebakke
Well-Known Member
Are you the guy behind me! ? :-D
I'm a bit in two minds... Much as I'd like it to be either or, I'd suggest that is probably preferable that a verbal is given if the ref isn't sure one way or another.
Although you're right - if a kick is given you'd think there'd be a card too.
nebakke
Well-Known Member
This is probably the biggest takeaway for me.
I haven't been a fan of taking Posco away from CB because i thought he was learning to command a bit but I have to say I thought or back 6-7 (incl Izzo) looked close to the most stable and comfortable they have all season.
In fairness Izzo wasn't tested much and didn't have to do too much in terms of wall building but there was a confidence in every save he made that brought a bit of hope to me and I thought the defence was rid of that panicked scramble that we've seen so often.
Had Poaco, Monty and Young Rose been up to a full 90 - I think we would have held them.
I'm not convinced of Storm on the wing though - he did alright but i think we have better options there.
I actually didn't mind Fitzy too much in that AM type position... Not brilliant but he moves a lot. I think it'd have been interesting to see him off for Cac in second half - kick-starting the attack in a more technical direction... Sort of replace blunt force with finesse when everyone's gotten a bit tired.
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
I initially read this as Williams being the benchmark of good, then I realised you meant just the opposite.
Beath & KGJ are on a level just below (above?) Williams. Some days they exceed him.
The 4th official yesterday (Stebre) should have been blowing the whistle, in my book by far the best going around. However I admit he does have his days as well.
Like many I was confused by the substitutions but looks like those questions have been answered as to be honest I though J Rose should have come off as he looked stuff and was giving the ball away to easily.
Not sure what Austin had been told but for some reason he was hitting the crosses first time rather than using his speed to take on the man or getting to the by-line a lot of very wasted ball.
Fitzy was useless at 10, very lazy with his pressing, it was always far too easy from Brisbane to play out as he did not work with Roy at all to cover the passing options when he pressed. His corners were awful far too much height on them which meant the keeper easily claimed every one. His options were poor again.
The back four looked more composed than in previous weeks although right back seems to be a trade off of Posco giving the ball away to easily or Roux been caught up field.
The difference again was finishing, we had 3 chances that I can recall where Roy twice and Austin cut across the edge of their box but then hit very poor shots that didn't even test the keeper.
As for the refereeing the A-League refs seem to completely disregard the standards and rules in the rest of the world and have made up their own laws.
The likes of Fitzy, Rose and Caceras should sit down and watch the reply taking note of Broich who gave them an absolute schooling in work rate, movement and vision.
Not sure what Austin had been told but for some reason he was hitting the crosses first time rather than using his speed to take on the man or getting to the by-line a lot of very wasted ball.
Fitzy was useless at 10, very lazy with his pressing, it was always far too easy from Brisbane to play out as he did not work with Roy at all to cover the passing options when he pressed. His corners were awful far too much height on them which meant the keeper easily claimed every one. His options were poor again.
The back four looked more composed than in previous weeks although right back seems to be a trade off of Posco giving the ball away to easily or Roux been caught up field.
The difference again was finishing, we had 3 chances that I can recall where Roy twice and Austin cut across the edge of their box but then hit very poor shots that didn't even test the keeper.
As for the refereeing the A-League refs seem to completely disregard the standards and rules in the rest of the world and have made up their own laws.
The likes of Fitzy, Rose and Caceras should sit down and watch the reply taking note of Broich who gave them an absolute schooling in work rate, movement and vision.
true believer
Well-Known Member
Gee roy goes hard.
I thought the heat would have killed him
But he never stops.
Ooh for a few more goals and it would be a good season
I thought the heat would have killed him
But he never stops.
Ooh for a few more goals and it would be a good season
Gratis
Well-Known Member
http://outside90.com/a-league-tactical-analysis-central-coast-mariners-0-brisbane-roar-1-623/
"A late goal from Dimitri Petratos saw Brisbane Roar secure a 1-0 win over the Central Coaat Mariners on a hot and humid Sunday afternoon in Gosford.
Petratos, demoted to the bench this week in favour of Steven Lustica, gave John Aloisi plenty to think about for next round with his 85th minute goal, curling a left-footed shot into the net after cutting inside his marker.
The Mariners piled forward in search of an equaliser and thought they had succeeded in stoppage time when Josh Rose’s low drive was deflected past Jamie Young by a teammate. However, the elation was quickly disbanded though with an offside flag, sentencing the Mariners to at least another fortnight at the bottom of the table.
Starting lineups and formations
The Mariners ran out in a slightly modified version of their 4-2-3-1 formation, with more defensive coverage in order to nullify the Roar’s dangerous forward line. Jacob Poscoliero returned to the side after being rested against Perth, but at right back instead of his usual role in central defence. This pushed New Zealand international Storm Roux up the flank into the right winger role and Nick Fitzgerald into central midfield at the expense of Anthony Caceres.
Brisbane coach John Aloisi had a full squad to select from and went for midfield stamina over attacking intent, starting Lustica over Petratos as the only change from the match against Wellington. This shifted Thomas Broich back out to the left side of the front three, though the German would often drift inside to try and link up with his teammates or provide room for Shane Steffanutto to run into from left back.
Roar drain life from the Mariners
Wellington Phoenix learned a similar lesson last week against John Aloisi’s side in Cairns – unless you can outplay the Roar in football, they will eventually grind over you to a win. Two goals in the final 20 minutes against the Phoenix secured victory last week after going behind in the first-half, and once again they struck late through Petratos to win against the Mariners.
The Roar’s possession-based style of football is what ensures they can outlast their opposition in the hot summer weather. The Mariners have often used a high-press in defence this season in an effort to force the opposition into errors playing out from the back. Tony Walmsley shook things up this week, playing defender Storm Roux in midfield and dropping playmaker Anthony Caceres to the bench in favour of the more workmanlike Nick Fitzgerald. In an effort to hold out the Roar and cope with the heat, the home side adopted a more reserved defensive style with the back four and midfield often remaining compact to restrict the space afforded to Brisbane’s forward line.
While it may have been the right approach given the defensive frailties exhibited in recent weeks, by sitting back the Mariners ceded dominance of possession to the Roar. Given the ability of the Queensland side’s midfield, once they had the ball they were hardly going to give it up easily. Brisbane finished the match with a whopping 59% possession, and in the process wore their opposition into the ground with each pass they completed. Central midfielders Liam Rose and Nick Montgomery could not see out the full match, while Nick Fitzgerald’s exhaustion was clear when he allowed Dimi Petratos easy passage inside to shoot for the match-winning goal.
Clinical edge missing from Central Coast
There was only one way the Mariners looked like scoring against the Roar, on the counter-attack. With the visitors pinning Tony Walmsley’s men in their own penalty area at times as they looked for an avenue to goal, every now and then the ball would be turned over in an advantageous position, whether it was through a good tackle or a misplaced pass. However, with Roux playing as the right winger of the midfield, the only two main attacking outlets available in these moments were Mitch Austin and Roy O’Donovan.
Unfortunately, neither player was able to craft a chance that would beat Jamie Young in between the sticks for Brisbane. Quite often when Austin would find space down the left he would play his crosses too early or too late, never consistently finding O’Donovan in the middle. As for the Irish striker, despite attempting a few shots, never threatened Jamie Young. It was exemplified in the second half after O’Donovan retrieved a long pass over the defensive line in the left hand channel of the field. Rather than drive into the box towards goal, the striker cut back and dribbled across the edge of the box, giving the Roar enough time to recover defensively. Against teams that hold the ball as well as Brisbane you need to take your opportunities when they present themselves, but the Mariners failed to do so.
The Mariners’ counter-attacks were halted by poor deliveries into the danger area
Attacking reshuffle on the cards for Roar
Although John Aloisi would be happy with three points, the cost of the result will no doubt be weighing on his mind after Lustica and Jamie Maclaren came off with injuries. While it has not been confirmed if the pair will miss any matches, the loss of Maclaren would seriously affect his side’s attacking quality. Jean Carlos Solorzano is certainly not a bad replacement, but Maclaren’s pace allows him to provide danger even when drifting out wide to create space, as well as providing an outlet through the long ball if the Roar are struggling to combine in midfield.
Conclusion
The return of Fabio Ferreira cannot come fast enough for the Mariners, they need the directness he provides on the right flank. Although they did concede late on, it was a much better defensive performance from Tony Walmsley’s side, they now just need to rediscover their attacking touch to compliment this new stability at the back.
John Aloisi would be happy with his side’s efforts of the past fortnight, two very challenging fixtures in terms of weather have yielded six points, all the while showing that his team has the confidence and ability to dictate terms to their opposition.
What are your thoughts? Let us know by dropping a comment below via our Facebook comment box. Make sure you follow us on Twitter @Outside90 and like us on Facebook.
"A late goal from Dimitri Petratos saw Brisbane Roar secure a 1-0 win over the Central Coaat Mariners on a hot and humid Sunday afternoon in Gosford.
Petratos, demoted to the bench this week in favour of Steven Lustica, gave John Aloisi plenty to think about for next round with his 85th minute goal, curling a left-footed shot into the net after cutting inside his marker.
The Mariners piled forward in search of an equaliser and thought they had succeeded in stoppage time when Josh Rose’s low drive was deflected past Jamie Young by a teammate. However, the elation was quickly disbanded though with an offside flag, sentencing the Mariners to at least another fortnight at the bottom of the table.
Starting lineups and formations
The Mariners ran out in a slightly modified version of their 4-2-3-1 formation, with more defensive coverage in order to nullify the Roar’s dangerous forward line. Jacob Poscoliero returned to the side after being rested against Perth, but at right back instead of his usual role in central defence. This pushed New Zealand international Storm Roux up the flank into the right winger role and Nick Fitzgerald into central midfield at the expense of Anthony Caceres.
Brisbane coach John Aloisi had a full squad to select from and went for midfield stamina over attacking intent, starting Lustica over Petratos as the only change from the match against Wellington. This shifted Thomas Broich back out to the left side of the front three, though the German would often drift inside to try and link up with his teammates or provide room for Shane Steffanutto to run into from left back.
Roar drain life from the Mariners
Wellington Phoenix learned a similar lesson last week against John Aloisi’s side in Cairns – unless you can outplay the Roar in football, they will eventually grind over you to a win. Two goals in the final 20 minutes against the Phoenix secured victory last week after going behind in the first-half, and once again they struck late through Petratos to win against the Mariners.
The Roar’s possession-based style of football is what ensures they can outlast their opposition in the hot summer weather. The Mariners have often used a high-press in defence this season in an effort to force the opposition into errors playing out from the back. Tony Walmsley shook things up this week, playing defender Storm Roux in midfield and dropping playmaker Anthony Caceres to the bench in favour of the more workmanlike Nick Fitzgerald. In an effort to hold out the Roar and cope with the heat, the home side adopted a more reserved defensive style with the back four and midfield often remaining compact to restrict the space afforded to Brisbane’s forward line.
While it may have been the right approach given the defensive frailties exhibited in recent weeks, by sitting back the Mariners ceded dominance of possession to the Roar. Given the ability of the Queensland side’s midfield, once they had the ball they were hardly going to give it up easily. Brisbane finished the match with a whopping 59% possession, and in the process wore their opposition into the ground with each pass they completed. Central midfielders Liam Rose and Nick Montgomery could not see out the full match, while Nick Fitzgerald’s exhaustion was clear when he allowed Dimi Petratos easy passage inside to shoot for the match-winning goal.
Clinical edge missing from Central Coast
There was only one way the Mariners looked like scoring against the Roar, on the counter-attack. With the visitors pinning Tony Walmsley’s men in their own penalty area at times as they looked for an avenue to goal, every now and then the ball would be turned over in an advantageous position, whether it was through a good tackle or a misplaced pass. However, with Roux playing as the right winger of the midfield, the only two main attacking outlets available in these moments were Mitch Austin and Roy O’Donovan.
Unfortunately, neither player was able to craft a chance that would beat Jamie Young in between the sticks for Brisbane. Quite often when Austin would find space down the left he would play his crosses too early or too late, never consistently finding O’Donovan in the middle. As for the Irish striker, despite attempting a few shots, never threatened Jamie Young. It was exemplified in the second half after O’Donovan retrieved a long pass over the defensive line in the left hand channel of the field. Rather than drive into the box towards goal, the striker cut back and dribbled across the edge of the box, giving the Roar enough time to recover defensively. Against teams that hold the ball as well as Brisbane you need to take your opportunities when they present themselves, but the Mariners failed to do so.
The Mariners’ counter-attacks were halted by poor deliveries into the danger area
Attacking reshuffle on the cards for Roar
Although John Aloisi would be happy with three points, the cost of the result will no doubt be weighing on his mind after Lustica and Jamie Maclaren came off with injuries. While it has not been confirmed if the pair will miss any matches, the loss of Maclaren would seriously affect his side’s attacking quality. Jean Carlos Solorzano is certainly not a bad replacement, but Maclaren’s pace allows him to provide danger even when drifting out wide to create space, as well as providing an outlet through the long ball if the Roar are struggling to combine in midfield.
Conclusion
The return of Fabio Ferreira cannot come fast enough for the Mariners, they need the directness he provides on the right flank. Although they did concede late on, it was a much better defensive performance from Tony Walmsley’s side, they now just need to rediscover their attacking touch to compliment this new stability at the back.
John Aloisi would be happy with his side’s efforts of the past fortnight, two very challenging fixtures in terms of weather have yielded six points, all the while showing that his team has the confidence and ability to dictate terms to their opposition.
What are your thoughts? Let us know by dropping a comment below via our Facebook comment box. Make sure you follow us on Twitter @Outside90 and like us on Facebook.
I am left scratching my head. Is there purpose to these team selections? The reasoning does escape me for many of the changes. We have had at least four if not five different central defence combo’s.
Clearly TW completely restructured this week, trying not to lose in place of trying to win. I wonder what his motivation is. This is confusing based on the 10 point gap we have to 6th place, we need to win. He parked the bus and still lost. Of course we looked better defensively with 10 behind the ball!
Posco has been a beacon at CB only to be moved to RB, a position requiring greater fitness this, after a week off with injury (assumed). The real story is more like that TW wanted to close down Roar’s main attacking threat which is on our right with McKay, Broich and Stefanutto interworking i.e. we had 2 x right backs to accommodate them.
Please put both Roux and Posco back where they belong. Posco in place of Ashcroft. Ashcroft is enthusiastic and raw but he does not have a decision making problem, he simply doesn’t make any, got caught ball watching again. I love Rose snr but I am worried, I think he is struggling physically, he still reads the game very well and straight line speed is still great but his agility and turning are very slow, I don’t think it is age, I just wonder how bad his knee injury is, he could not go with Petratous sideways.
The game plan was simple, park the bus, attack long and left, delay and waste time at every opportunity, sit on their left side of attack and make them go around or over us in attack. Our only attacking outlet was long and left, this is ok if we hold the ball in the attacking third for long periods.
Credit where credit is due, Austin has been better the last two weeks, he is getting his head up more, however, he still wastes way too much possession which consequently puts us under pressure. He also needs to learn how to kick with his right peg.
O’Donovan – should have buried at least one if not two very good opportunities. A strong Manager would have benched him weeks ago. Tries very hard but does not have the quality, give Bingham a go he has more upside and potential or, as I have said before, put Austin at the point, he could prove a sensation with his pace if he can kick straight and has a one track mindset to just shoot.
Last is Rose jnr, this kid is good, TW is asking a lot of a youngster to play CM. I just hope we don’t burn him, his passing and vision is fantastic, he can run at a man, the only drawback is that he lacks physical presence particularly in contested tackles. This is probably a consequence of playing a player before they are ready physically.
Clearly TW completely restructured this week, trying not to lose in place of trying to win. I wonder what his motivation is. This is confusing based on the 10 point gap we have to 6th place, we need to win. He parked the bus and still lost. Of course we looked better defensively with 10 behind the ball!
Posco has been a beacon at CB only to be moved to RB, a position requiring greater fitness this, after a week off with injury (assumed). The real story is more like that TW wanted to close down Roar’s main attacking threat which is on our right with McKay, Broich and Stefanutto interworking i.e. we had 2 x right backs to accommodate them.
Please put both Roux and Posco back where they belong. Posco in place of Ashcroft. Ashcroft is enthusiastic and raw but he does not have a decision making problem, he simply doesn’t make any, got caught ball watching again. I love Rose snr but I am worried, I think he is struggling physically, he still reads the game very well and straight line speed is still great but his agility and turning are very slow, I don’t think it is age, I just wonder how bad his knee injury is, he could not go with Petratous sideways.
The game plan was simple, park the bus, attack long and left, delay and waste time at every opportunity, sit on their left side of attack and make them go around or over us in attack. Our only attacking outlet was long and left, this is ok if we hold the ball in the attacking third for long periods.
Credit where credit is due, Austin has been better the last two weeks, he is getting his head up more, however, he still wastes way too much possession which consequently puts us under pressure. He also needs to learn how to kick with his right peg.
O’Donovan – should have buried at least one if not two very good opportunities. A strong Manager would have benched him weeks ago. Tries very hard but does not have the quality, give Bingham a go he has more upside and potential or, as I have said before, put Austin at the point, he could prove a sensation with his pace if he can kick straight and has a one track mindset to just shoot.
Last is Rose jnr, this kid is good, TW is asking a lot of a youngster to play CM. I just hope we don’t burn him, his passing and vision is fantastic, he can run at a man, the only drawback is that he lacks physical presence particularly in contested tackles. This is probably a consequence of playing a player before they are ready physically.
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Agree with many of the things being said. Austin really needs ro ask Santa for a right foot. His run deserved more. It wasn't just the structure i thought that improved our defence - but our workrate - which was pretty unbelievable until we clearly tired. Was hoping our younger legs might prevail - broich was gasping at half time - but to our cost roars possession let them rest and play the game at their pace in the second half - and to try and press harder in that heat would have bordered on suicide.
Too many 5pm games this year and as luck would have it, yesterday we came up against the only side more used/able than us to play in that heat.
All in all, clearly more competitive with that structure and lineup - though no more potent looking in attack. Largely fell apart when we tired - that goal was fatigue related imo - no surprise or Shame That Rosey was gassed - we then opened up when we tried for the win with the attacking subs, (liked sims energy - gumpsesque) and of course our unforced errors effected our fluency, possession and attack.
Good effort though I thought. Those changes to the lineup were a risk that almost paid off. But bottom line, Roar are a better side - they move the ball a lot better than us (and most sides) both in spreading wide to stretch opponents and in tight spaces. They make far less mistakes. (Which while posc started badly it was our mids imo where most occurred) And they're much better finishers than us. Henrique, Broich and mclaren are all very threatening in front of goal. While Mckay, Corona and Broich are very good at setting up their attacks and Henrique at getting in behind.
Fab back is clearly a big plus. But from how we look still fear we'll still prove a notch of experience and quality short in most of our remaining games this season without strengthening the squad come January.
Too many 5pm games this year and as luck would have it, yesterday we came up against the only side more used/able than us to play in that heat.
All in all, clearly more competitive with that structure and lineup - though no more potent looking in attack. Largely fell apart when we tired - that goal was fatigue related imo - no surprise or Shame That Rosey was gassed - we then opened up when we tried for the win with the attacking subs, (liked sims energy - gumpsesque) and of course our unforced errors effected our fluency, possession and attack.
Good effort though I thought. Those changes to the lineup were a risk that almost paid off. But bottom line, Roar are a better side - they move the ball a lot better than us (and most sides) both in spreading wide to stretch opponents and in tight spaces. They make far less mistakes. (Which while posc started badly it was our mids imo where most occurred) And they're much better finishers than us. Henrique, Broich and mclaren are all very threatening in front of goal. While Mckay, Corona and Broich are very good at setting up their attacks and Henrique at getting in behind.
Fab back is clearly a big plus. But from how we look still fear we'll still prove a notch of experience and quality short in most of our remaining games this season without strengthening the squad come January.
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BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
There I was about to start singing "One Point to the Mariners", but nup....I wasnt being greedy, a draw would of done me ( and probably the fellas a world of good), I actually though they might smash us BUT they didnt...as for what stood out...Rose The Elder seemed to be having a hard time, is he carrying a injury?....Fitzy and AC need a roasting for being overly lazy...and whats with kicking the ball TO the keeper...its past him guys PAST HIM FFS...the defence was better, if we can get a old head to play amongst the younguns we might be onto something...imagine how good Harry or Mc Ging could be, if they got to hang around someone like Zwaanje.....said it before, this season is pretty much done for, UNLESS TW can pull a rabbit out of his hat ( or a cheque out of Charlesworth)
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Just been watching the replay, 6 bad or dubious calls by the officials in the 1st half all went against CCM. Go figure.
Luca Brasi
Well-Known Member
I had no problem with the 4231, there was plenty of forward movement so I would hardly call it parking the bus, a la Moss's back 5. The forward movement however never stopped to look for support and we were always 2 v 4 on the counter. Dont like Storm in the midfield. The squad is what it is, they put in a hard shift in 33+ degrees and I felt really sorry for the players that their effort wasnt rewarded with a point.
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
oh and on the Fitz experiment.., not ideal, but only his first game there and he clearly offers more than cac in workrate and attacking endeavour - but less in keeping possession. Personally would stick with him for a few weeks as we looked nore functionsl than the last 4 games - and attack more balanced once Fab came on.
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true believer
Well-Known Member
I liked fitz in the 10 , definitely more mongrel . I think goals could come .
i'd like another look a storm a rm as well
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Every game Liam Rose plays helps him develop into a new Jedi/Monty
Kid has all the talent in the world and the people who bitch about him are probably the same people who bitched about Trent Sainsbury when he 1st started.
There you go
marinersince2006
Active Member
marinersince2006
Active Member
From Brisbane 0.1.
The Eye Test.
Austin 8, RoryO 3, Fitzg 6, Monty 4, Lrose 7, post 4, Ash 6, JRose 6 , Izz 4 , Storm 4, Jake 7 ,............sim 5, Fab 6, Car 6
Coach 8
Ref 3
Sorry I posted the detail/reasons on 191.......Tony W Yellow army thread
The Eye Test.
Austin 8, RoryO 3, Fitzg 6, Monty 4, Lrose 7, post 4, Ash 6, JRose 6 , Izz 4 , Storm 4, Jake 7 ,............sim 5, Fab 6, Car 6
Coach 8
Ref 3
Sorry I posted the detail/reasons on 191.......Tony W Yellow army thread
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