Next CCM Manager

[Forum Phoenix]

Well said.

Also when the cracks came Paul couldn’t and appeared wouldn’t adapt.

His sideline demeanor changed significantly as the season progressed.

He let the money affect him. Instead of getting on with the job and being more invested he wilted and barely said boo in the last couple of games.

When the club needed a fighter we had a quiter.

That guy saluting the crowd pumping his fists against SFC had gone and it’s wasn’t just the loosing that was responsible.

I was sympathetic to Okon for a long time due to precisely what euromariner cited re our lack of quality up top. It was clearly a major issue and $$ related. And though I think he made a mistake with Adsrubal, that can easily happen, and his recruitment was otherwise mostly excellent.

But as Big Al says above his ‘wilting’ is what really tipped me over the line. A lot of things he couldn’t control. But that he could. So no forgiveness from me there. (And Ozhammer also came on and made some important points.)

And for mine while he tinkered it was nearly all inside the framework of the same shape/system, and any actual impact, which is what matters, was minor to nothing. The change needed and wanted was more drastic but that would have affected his “philosophy” which he was simply unwilling to do. And we played a big price for that also. And in the end so did he imo.

A bit less pride, a bit more direct and safety first football and he could easily have won enough games to scramble into the six. Then at seasons end, lick a few wounds, learn from the year and work to strengthen and build upon our shortcomings in attack and then made a real go of it the following season.

I think a fair few of us expected this and were ok for a mediocre bridging year and weren’t thinking we’d conquer the league. But at the end of the day he (and Jolic) took ZERO responsibility for any shortcomings whatsoever. I don’t think that’s a good coach, and it certainly isn’t endearing.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Great posts btw euromariner. Nice to have have you on the forum,

 

[Big Al]

We used to have Tobin and Ferguson on the bench with Lawrie back in the early days, so I assume you're allowed to have a 'first team coach' in addition to an assistant. I think Sydney have both Moss and Corica as assistants as well. I like the idea of letting the coach bring in an assistant of their choice, but telling them that there'll be a first team coach of the club's choice as well. A consultant coaching job could also work well for someone like McBreen, coming in two days a week to work with the strikers across U12s to academy to first team or something. I'd love to see us offer a similar thing to Sterjovski as well. The respect guys like Ryan and Sainsbury have for him makes me think we're missing something by not offering him something just to keep him involved with the club.

Yep you are spot on SFC have both. So we need to do it via these ideas.

I like the idea of the appointment working with all players from 12’s up.

What we need to breed (which is very hard to do) is the willingness to work as a group of coaches. Coaches are competitive and want the credit.

NFL and NBA have a few coaches under the manager that run a variety of different aspects of the team and it’s a collection of ideas and the head coach needs to he smart enough to know which ideas are good and which not. Mossy was a good ideas man and Arnie knew which to run with and which to not.

 

[euromariner]

Maybe you should check things before you post. I don't appreciate being accused of making stuff up for expressing an opinion that was clearly framed as such.

Hi @Woollybutt

Would you be able to link me to your original comment? I scrolled back over the thread 3 times, but can’t see it (perhaps it was on another thread). Your comments previous to mine on this thread (from the 22nd and 23rd) are about Monty’s role at the club and regulations around coaching licences.

For context surrounding my original post, I was directly referring to the claim that Okon didn’t attend training sessions, which had been suggested on top of previous assertions I’d heard that the commute had resulted in him not attending training. I had objective information that dispelled that claim, which Wombat and I discussed and you ‘disliked’.

I haven’t seen your original comment. I don’t disagree with your most recent comment either. I haven’t interpreted anything you’ve previously written, because I’ve only been on the forum for a few days, so I haven’t read through old comments on other threads.

In terms of engaging with what you wrote above -

I also stand by the fact that long commutes are physically and mentally draining and aren't ideal for either players or coaches, and that the next coach should actually be based in the community.

How far are you willing to go to implement this?
Would you add it to the contract proposal?
As non-negotiable?

Australian teams (especially ones that aren’t based in major cities) are in very geographically unique situations, especially compared to what I see in Europe.

Jobs tend to hone in where an individual lives. Contractually dictating where someone must live is authoritarian and the claim that someone isn’t imbedded in the culture of the club due to the fact that they live X km away isn’t substantive (and in many cases is impractical).

Your claim may well be correct, but you’d have to bring a substantial reason for this.
The suggestion that others had made (that the coach didn’t turn up because he lived too far away) was simply incorrect.

 

[shipwreck]

Make then live here as part of the contract. I don't give a f**k if it sounds harsh or authoritarian, in my opinion it makes coaches more accountable to the public, makes them work harder and makes them fight more to save face.

Maybe if Okon had to face your average mum and dad at Woolies in Erina on Sunday mornings rather than scamper back to Western Sydney after every defeat he wouldn't have turned from a fighter to a quitter so easily.

Pure speculation but I strongly believe it, I may be biased because ive worked in the military where they tell you where to live what to eat and when to shower, still we got shit done and didn't make excuses.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Make then live here as part of the contract. I don't give a f**k if it sounds harsh or authoritarian, in my opinion it makes coaches more accountable to the public, makes them work harder and makes them fight more to save face.

Maybe if Okon had to face your average mum and dad at Woolies in Erina on Sunday mornings rather than scamper back to Western Sydney after every defeat he wouldn't have turned from a fighter to a quitter so easily.

Pure speculation but I strongly believe it, I may be biased because ive worked in the military where they tell you where to live what to eat and when to shower, still we got shit done and didn't make excuses.

Agree until you get to the military bit. It's just a decision that needs to be made to set a standard and start a specific culture. Want to play for us, you gotta love amongst us.

Make then live here as part of the contract. I don't give a f**k if it sounds harsh or authoritarian, in my opinion it makes coaches more accountable to the public, makes them work harder and makes them fight more to save face.

Maybe if Okon had to face your average mum and dad at Woolies in Erina on Sunday mornings rather than scamper back to Western Sydney after every defeat he wouldn't have turned from a fighter to a quitter so easily.

Pure speculation but I strongly believe it, I may be biased because ive worked in the military where they tell you where to live what to eat and when to shower, still we got shit done and didn't make excuses.

It's really no different to asking foreign players to move their families here.
I think it sets the standard and first part of cultural change. Wanna play here, gotta live here.

 

[Woollybutt]

Hi @Woollybutt

Would you be able to link me to your original comment? I scrolled back over the thread 3 times, but can’t see it (perhaps it was on another thread). Your comments previous to mine on this thread (from the 22nd and 23rd) are about Monty’s role at the club and regulations around coaching licences.

For context surrounding my original post, I was directly referring to the claim that Okon didn’t attend training sessions, which had been suggested on top of previous assertions I’d heard that the commute had resulted in him not attending training. I had objective information that dispelled that claim, which Wombat and I discussed and you ‘disliked’.

I haven’t seen your original comment. I don’t disagree with your most recent comment either. I haven’t interpreted anything you’ve previously written, because I’ve only been on the forum for a few days, so I haven’t read through old comments on other threads.

In terms of engaging with what you wrote above -


How far are you willing to go to implement this?
Would you add it to the contract proposal?
As non-negotiable?

Australian teams (especially ones that aren’t based in major cities) are in very geographically unique situations, especially compared to what I see in Europe.

Jobs tend to hone in where an individual lives. Contractually dictating where someone must live is authoritarian and the claim that someone isn’t imbedded in the culture of the club due to the fact that they live X km away isn’t substantive (and in many cases is impractical).

Your claim may well be correct, but you’d have to bring a substantial reason for this.
The suggestion that others had made (that the coach didn’t turn up because he lived too far away) was simply incorrect.

I think the original comment was in the Okon's Gone thread. I'm not saying I was the first one to think or say this, but my comment about it sparked a bit of discussion, so your use of the commute thing as an example of people making stuff up came across as an attack on my integrity. I'll take you at your word that it wasn't intended that way, but you may want to be more careful of bandying about accusations in future. Everyone makes mistakes, but I don't think a single person here would deliberately make anything up to support their views or slander someone else.

In terms of your response, I think you may be overthinking it. I really don't see it as authoritarian or out of line in any way, and it's not that uncommon a requirement. It isn't something that needs to be written into a contract, but when Shaun and co. are talking to possible coaches I think they should ask them if they would relocate to the Coast. People get asked that all the time in job interviews. And if they say no, then I'd like the club to walk away, even if they're otherwise the best candidate. I also think the players should be told they're expected to live locally, but would be happy for exemptions to be granted on a case by case basis.

We're a small club with no money and a tiny fanbase, so we have to do things differently. We need big ideas like the CoE, more fan and community engagement than any other club, great youth development, and most importantly an exceptional team culture. This culture was key to our success under Lawrie and Arnie, and it's been eroded over time. There were lots of things that contributed to this, like signing guys like Reddy and Bosnar, Charlesworth's dumb ideas about moving the club and results don't matter, and alienating the custodians of the club's identity like Hutch and Monty. But another big part of it is the fact that too many players and coaching staff (and the owner) don't live locally any more. How can Okon understand the community when he was just driving through it? Compared to Lawrie and Arnie, or Shaun now? How can he build those off-field links to his players when he has to rush off after training?

I'm not sure how you want me to substantiate the idea that living in the community is essential for understanding it. It's not exactly something that sociologists are falling over themselves to study... But Insertnamehere said it better than me. It sets the standard and provides the groundworks for the culture. Want to lead us, you've got to live among us.

 

[Coastalraider]

I think the original comment was in the Okon's Gone thread. I'm not saying I was the first one to think or say this, but my comment about it sparked a bit of discussion, so your use of the commute thing as an example of people making stuff up came across as an attack on my integrity. I'll take you at your word that it wasn't intended that way, but you may want to be more careful of bandying about accusations in future. Everyone makes mistakes, but I don't think a single person here would deliberately make anything up to support their views or slander someone else.

In terms of your response, I think you may be overthinking it. I really don't see it as authoritarian or out of line in any way, and it's not that uncommon a requirement. It isn't something that needs to be written into a contract, but when Shaun and co. are talking to possible coaches I think they should ask them if they would relocate to the Coast. People get asked that all the time in job interviews. And if they say no, then I'd like the club to walk away, even if they're otherwise the best candidate. I also think the players should be told they're expected to live locally, but would be happy for exemptions to be granted on a case by case basis.

We're a small club with no money and a tiny fanbase, so we have to do things differently. We need big ideas like the CoE, more fan and community engagement than any other club, great youth development, and most importantly an exceptional team culture. This culture was key to our success under Lawrie and Arnie, and it's been eroded over time. There were lots of things that contributed to this, like signing guys like Reddy and Bosnar, Charlesworth's dumb ideas about moving the club and results don't matter, and alienating the custodians of the club's identity like Hutch and Monty. But another big part of it is the fact that too many players and coaching staff (and the owner) don't live locally any more. How can Okon understand the community when he was just driving through it? Compared to Lawrie and Arnie, or Shaun now? How can he build those off-field links to his players when he has to rush off after training?

I'm not sure how you want me to substantiate the idea that living in the community is essential for understanding it. It's not exactly something that sociologists are falling over themselves to study... But Insertnamehere said it better than me. It sets the standard and provides the groundworks for the culture. Want to lead us, you've got to live among us.

I agree with you Wooly. I live on the north end of the coast, my work is on the peninsular, and the majority of the staff live down there as well. While we all work together during business hours, it's harder to socialise, grab a meal or a coffee etc.

I have no doubt it would be better for a coach who could be available at all times for his squad, and live locally. One of the coaches main roles, especially with a squad full of youth, is man management. Monitoring your teams behaviour (reported drinking culture) and interpersonal relationships (Api and Hoole) are crucial, and while not impossible to do from distance, it's significantly easier if you are present.

I spent 10 years working in a different professional sport, and the best successes we went though were a combination of the technical aspect and the culture. The culture was almost entirely built outside of business hours.

 

[Ozhammer]

Want to play for us, you gotta love amongst us.

Isn’t that what got Walmsley into trouble?

 

[Wombat]

Yes. That snake oil salesman was a charmer.

 

[pjennings]

Alan Pardew is looking for a gig.

 

[Wombat]

Alan Pardew is looking for a gig.

Has he been successful ANYWHERE??????????????

 

[pjennings]

Has he been successful ANYWHERE??????????????

No - he should be used to being at the foot of the table

 

[Wombat]

lol.....................we have has 3 losers on the trot.........combined with a f**king shit house owner......

We have to do better than losers like Pardew.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Has he been successful ANYWHERE??????????????

Reading and Southampton for 2 minutes

 

[MagpieMariner]

Sounds like he'd fit in well here.

 

[Wombat]

Sounds like he'd fit in well here.

Mike find him a bit expensive.

 

[Hammo]

I’m hearing from a good source that Anthony Limbrick is being looked at

 

[finally retired]

I’m hearing from a good source that Anthony Limbrick is being looked at

he'd fit in here perfectly "Woking part company with manager Anthony Limbrick following a nine-game winless run in the National League."
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43633314

 

[mariners4ever]

I’m hearing from a good source that Anthony Limbrick is being looked at

Just looked him up, wouldn’t be surprised if MC looked at him.
- Whilst yes he’s been sacked from Woking, he knows how to work with a next to nothing budget.
- He’s Australian and young
- Has previously worked with Southampton, everyone knows what their academy has produced.
- From Tasmania, could be a chance for Charlesworth to get connections to tap into that market and take games there.