Final Series- Local League Thread

[RADINHO]

Kariong U14 Champions tonight. yew 2-1 extra time

Congrats mate!

thank you hope you have better luck next year

 

[Ted]

Kariong U14 Champions tonight. yew 2-1 extra time

Congrats mate!

thank you hope you have better luck next year

Thanks, but to be honest it couldnt be any worse than this year.
Not sure if I'll be coaching the same team next year anyway now, have to see what happens I guess.

 

[RADINHO]

Kariong U14 Champions tonight. yew 2-1 extra time

Congrats mate!

thank you hope you have better luck next year

Thanks, but to be honest it couldnt be any worse than this year.
Not sure if I'll be coaching the same team next year anyway now, have to see what happens I guess.

oh well what ever you pursue i hope you enjoy success

 

[Ted]

It's not that I dont want to it's there are 3 coaches wanting to coach the same team.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Ugh, I just got home from reffing....didn't walk off the field until 9:50, and there was a game still going.  Absolute scorcher at Pluim, I'm glad my game wasn't until the evening.

Kareem seems to think that he's been slighted by the ref's association so evidently he's going to take it out on every ref on here.

Sometimes you have to blame the ARs ability or the lack of actually having them present and not just the Ref. We had a call in one of our games during the season where the ball went through the opposing keepers legs on his own goal line, the keeper spun and dropped to the ground to rake back the ball. The fact that the keeper was on his line and collected the ball from behind proves in my eyes it as a goal not to mention several witnesses from the opposite team saying it was a goal and we were shafted by the decision. The AR was too bloody slow to follow the play adequately and he was never in the correct position to make such a call. But he did so anyway, the ref believed him and it was denied. We also had about numerous offside calls go against us as well. Some were legitimate calls, some werent. But meh, what can you do? btw we lost 1-0.

You're right about the AR's.  I'll agree that laziness is a bit of a problem - however, you need to consider that these guys may have up to 4 or 5 games in a day, both days - possibly with 18's on Friday night.  Or maybe 2-3 games on one day with their own game....I think that sometimes it's understandable if an AR wants to conserve energy - but yeah, sometiems it's just lazy.  I know when I've got a pretty full on day I'll get a bit lazy with following the ball through to the goal line - I may slack off if nothing's likely to happen.  In that keeper situation, if neither official is certain the ball crossed the line, then play shouldn't be stopped. 

I will agree that sometimes no AR is better - because when there's an AR, the referee will depend on them for offside decisions (as you'd expect), but if he's constantly behind play....although without an AR it's impossible to get offsides right all the time anyway.

Unfortunately AR's are usually just the guy who's reffing the next game, which means that they tend to not be chosen on their merits.  No better way of doing things though.

Although if the AR is just a club AR like yours was, then all bets are off!!!

 

[Ted]

Ugh, I just got home from reffing....didn't walk off the field until 9:50, and there was a game still going.  Absolute scorcher at Pluim, I'm glad my game wasn't until the evening.

Kareem seems to think that he's been slighted by the ref's association so evidently he's going to take it out on every ref on here.

Sometimes you have to blame the AR’s ability or the lack of actually having them present and not just the Ref. We had a call in one of our games during the season where the ball went through the opposing keeper’s legs on his own goal line, the keeper spun and dropped to the ground to rake back the ball. The fact that the keeper was on his line and collected the ball from behind proves in my eyes it as a goal not to mention several witnesses from the opposite team saying it was a goal and we were shafted by the decision. The AR was too bloody slow to follow the play adequately and he was never in the correct position to make such a call. But he did so anyway, the ref believed him and it was denied. We also had about numerous offside calls go against us as well. Some were legitimate calls, some weren’t. But meh, what can you do? btw we lost 1-0.

You're right about the AR's.  I'll agree that laziness is a bit of a problem - however, you need to consider that these guys may have up to 4 or 5 games in a day, both days - possibly with 18's on Friday night.  Or maybe 2-3 games on one day with their own game....I think that sometimes it's understandable if an AR wants to conserve energy - but yeah, sometiems it's just lazy.  I know when I've got a pretty full on day I'll get a bit lazy with following the ball through to the goal line - I may slack off if nothing's likely to happen.  In that keeper situation, if neither official is certain the ball crossed the line, then play shouldn't be stopped. 

I will agree that sometimes no AR is better - because when there's an AR, the referee will depend on them for offside decisions (as you'd expect), but if he's constantly behind play....although without an AR it's impossible to get offsides right all the time anyway.

Unfortunately AR's are usually just the guy who's reffing the next game, which means that they tend to not be chosen on their merits.  No better way of doing things though.

Although if the AR is just a club AR like yours was, then all bets are off!!!

Ironically same club as our ball over the line incident...

 

[Kareem]

Kareem seems to think that he's been slighted by the ref's association so evidently he's going to take it out on every ref on here.

I think that is a bit unfair
on 2 occasions before I have unloaded on bad ref's to which YOU PM'd me advising not to.
I heeded your advice as it was good and sensible advice but nonetheless you just made an IMO unfair inference that my problems= my baggin out.
I am openly baggin out because I am no longer bound- as simple as that.

This year my u13s team had 3 unbelievably bad ref's
1) The one who let my GK get kicked in head and ribs by same player in same game. By far the worst
2) GF ref - rated no 2 as violence/GK (who i consider a friend) was in my eyes more important than even a GF. But apart from that pretty bad.
3) Up at Budgie- absolute most shocking ref ever but you know what unlike the rest he was actually fair!
He was consistent
yes consitently bad but he was consistent
He didnt send off GK for last man handball outside of box (obvious goal scoring opp.)- not even a card. He made some dodgy decisions against us
but then he made dodgy decisions for us- including allowing our striker to kick the ball out of the GK's hands. Me and the other team coach had a bit of bewilderment about it!

Basically- this isnt me with a vengeance- this is me being free to truly express my feelings.There are some good ref's out there ofcourse...
anyone here think they would lie down for a qesdtionable penalty??? Especially in a GF?
Like our GK said- it was basically a 0-0. We didnt lose
And I hope that ref gets learns from him because that arrogant idiot thinks that laughing it off is the best solution...then not only is he a bad ref but also a dropkick. If he is willing to privately (not in front of me or anyone else) reflect and improve his personal standards then maybe some good can come from this atrocity.
Note; I told him to go back to his lawbook and read it to which him and one of his AR's chuckled.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Ah yes, so anybody who isn't a referee is perfectly justified in bagging out the referees *rolls eyes*.  Grow up, for crying out loud.

Good work on having a go at the referee in front of your team.  Great example you're setting for the kids there, keep it up mate.

Quite disappointing that the harshest comments against a local ref comes from another ref (oh, that's right, you're an ex-ref now).  Disappointing that somebody who's spent the time on the field has immediately forgotten what it's like when he gets bagged out because people criticise his decisions.

Also very disappointing that somebody who's been in the position to witness the effect that parents and officials with no self control have on their team, particularly with youth players, and just what a problem this is can't even be bothered to take that knowledge on themselves and apply it to their own behaviour.

After all, you know as well as anybody that it isn't as easy in the middle as it looks from the sideline, especially for officials without much experience (after all, you were one of thsoe officials without much experience, and not all your games went smoothly - though I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate somebody coming on here calling you a dropkick, an idiot and unbelievable bad due to some of your decisions.

Some people choose to help fix the problem, some choose to be part of it.  Congratulations on your choice to be part of it.

Now would probably be a good time to point out, not just to kareem but to everybody else on here (it's never needed to be pointed out before) that CCF have informed CCFRI at the start of the season that they WILL take action against people who bag referees out in a public manner on the internet - be it on a club's website (such as, match reports), or even a forum such as this.  They are entitled to (should anybody lodge a complaint), and they have assured CCFRI that they will. 

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Umina won the PL 1st grade grand final 2-0

 

[Ted]

I don't think I bagged anyone out with my comments. But if a ref is in poor form and constantly making silly or obviously biased decisions, then he shouldn't be wrapped in cotton wool either and left to continue in a sub standard manner.

 

[Kanwal Bull]

lost our minor semi final to The Entrance 3-0 today.. not a great performance by most of our team.. maybe nerves or maybe they didnt care but didnt look like they showed up to play.. the ref had a good game tho

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Nah you didn't Ted.

But as has been pointed out before - referees don't make nearly as many mistakes as players.

Besides, a referee would be in a world of trouble for abusing/bagging out a player/team official - so why should they be allowed to do so?  We already have to put up with way too much crap as it is.

As for referees making mistakes....well, let's be realistic, experience is a massive factor, and in youth footbal in particularly you're going to get a lot of inexperienced referees.  We have stepped up education a lot in the past few years, but there's so much we can do.  I fail to see what kareem's comments could possibly achieve in regards to rectifying the situation.

 

[Ted]

Fair enough. You also have to consider that players pay to play the game and a ref gets paid to judicate it. So at least an adequate job should be the result.

Are refs graded for ability? If not maybe inexperienced referees should only ref lower grades and leave the more experienced ones to referee the B and A grades.

 

[Ted]

lost our minor semi final to The Entrance 3-0 today.. not a great performance by most of our team.. maybe nerves or maybe they didnt care but didnt look like they showed up to play.. the ref had a good game tho

Unlucky mate.

 

[Herbs]

Kareem.
As a ref i have learnt that some decision go either way as a ref, you cant see the ball, or the hand, or the whole play as yo have 10 players in front of you ect.

As a player i still get annoyed when a call doesnt go our way, just like everyone else.
But as an 'ex-ref' you should, should, show respect towards refs.
We both know inexperienced ref's make dodgy calls, ive had my fair share. Then all the abuse comes from the players, crowd and coaches.
You should probly follw my lead and just take it as it come with refs.
Just like the abuse you would have copped for a dodgy decisoon at some point, no ref's perfect.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Fair enough. You also have to consider that players pay to play the game and a ref gets paid to judicate it. So at least an adequate job should be the result.

Are refs graded for ability? If not maybe inexperienced referees should only ref lower grades and leave the more experienced ones to referee the B and A grades.

Fair point - but again, we're limited in how much we can educate the officials - and the laws of the game only provide the very, very basics.

In response to your 2nd question, the senior referees are graded (as they're inspected 2-3 times a year, though they're only graded in terms of first grade refs, reserve grade refs, and 'the rest'), but the juniors aren't.  However, we do tend to have a rough idea of the ability of everybody through word of mouth, so we try and consider that for appointments - and yes, generally the better ones will get the A and B grade matches - though during the season there are other limitations such as availability of referees, match times etc.  Easier to work around during the finals, but sometimes word of mouth suggests a referee is better than he is.  Sometimes referees just have a bad day too. 

We do try and find time to send a mentor out to watch the young officials as much as possible - again, our manpower is limited.

A few years ago, at the request of a number of clubs, we tried to implement a system where the clubs themselves would grade referees.  While this wouldn't have any official bearing, it would give us an indication of who we need to have a look at, which would've benefitted everybody.  Unfortunately, even though it was the clubs who wanted it, we got a total of 2 reports come in (and all we were asking is a 1-5 grade, with a comment or two if necessary).

Really not liking these 8pm kickoffs....

 

[Kareem]

Ah yes, so anybody who isn't a referee is perfectly justified in bagging out the referees *rolls eyes*.  Grow up, for crying out loud.

No but as oppsoed to ref's where they shouldnt bag out collegues which is a fair enough concept! I dont see any reasons for restraints for someone who isnt a ref

Good work on having a go at the referee in front of your team.  Great example you're setting for the kids there, keep it up mate.   

How dare you even go there!
That is disgusting
DO YOU KNOW HOW HEARTBROKEN MY PLAYERS WERE AT HALFTIME. DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT WAS TO TRY AND MOTIVATE THEM? TO TRY AND GIVE THEM HOPE.
THEY DEFENDED GALLANTLY, THEY PUT ON BEST DEFENSIVE EFFORT OF SEASON. OUR GK MADE THE 2 MOST BRILLIANT SAVES OF HIS LIFE! AND THEY WERE 1-0 DOWN WHY? BECAUSE OF A REF'S CALL. iT COSTS US THE GAME.
THEY LOST HEART AFTER THAT-
I have only once before blown up at a ref in front of my team and that was a ref's negligence resulted in my GK leaving the field injured (after kicked in head and ribs by same player twice).

I honestly think if we went down 1-0 to conventional ways (ie. them actually scoring without ref helping them)- we would have scored. Just we wer too shocked.

Quite disappointing that the harshest comments against a local ref comes from another ref (oh, that's right, you're an ex-ref now).  Disappointing that somebody who's spent the time on the field has immediately forgotten what it's like when he gets bagged out because people criticise his decisions.   

Didnt make a 1-0 GF changing call did I? I wasnt afraid to give yellow cards if required. I gave 3 yellows on Saturdays (3 more than most junior ref's who are too afraid or on occasion too lazy- paper work committments) and 10 maybe on Sundays.

After all, you know as well as anybody that it isn't as easy in the middle as it looks from the sideline, especially for officials without much experience (after all, you were one of thsoe officials without much experience, and not all your games went smoothly - though I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate somebody coming on here calling you a dropkick, an idiot and unbelievable bad due to some of your decisions.   

If he was inexperienced then WAT THE HELL WAS HE DOIN REFFING A GF?
I dunno wat happened to the original ref- a half decent ref with 4 years exp., but his replacement was just poor!
If my pathetic knolwegde of game caused a 1-0 GF loss then I would take it, I would learn from it. Why couldnt he give yellow cards??? Is there a new law change I am unaware of.

Some people choose to help fix the problem, some choose to be part of it.  Congratulations on your choice to be part of it.   

He was the problem. How can you fix that? It's cost our team a chance at the GF (not sayin we would have won). It's caused 14 kids heartbreak of the worst kind....just sad really.
I've lost GF's before with mildly contraversial decisions but not one like this.

  Now would probably be a good time to point out, not just to kareem but to everybody else on here (it's never needed to be pointed out before) that CCF have informed CCFRI at the start of the season that they WILL take action against people who bag referees out in a public manner on the internet - be it on a club's website (such as, match reports), or even a forum such as this.  They are entitled to (should anybody lodge a complaint), and they have assured CCFRI that they will. 
 

I am not going to be scared of something that i believe in. That ref has done so much damage to this team. If he cant handle the criticism then why on earth give such a light penalty??? Honestly

If he has a problem then he should come on here and defend himself- if he doesnt want to due to CCFRI reasons then he should  take it, learn from it and get on with life.
And heck I dont even know the kid's name- and no one does as it wasnt put down on appointments sheet.
As my old 1st grade coach said
"Even if a ref performs badly he still gets paid at the end of the day!"
If my players perform badly they lose- but if ref performs bad he still gets paid regardless of performance- that ref walked out of Pluim park with $28- $14 of which was far from deserved!
The AR's were fine- just we were unlucky to recieve the inexperienced ref as a replacement. It better have been a good reason our ref was changed because it seems that decision cost us the match.

And absolute bull crap about "entitled to"...
wat about us? we are entitled to a ref to officate the game in a fair manner.

oh and
We had a similar situation to the 'penalty' like that down other 5 mins before that. Our manager was a bit unhappy on challenge but I said "I wouldnt call that as a penalty, no ref would" I mean there was contact both times but not impedence! No consisency- either you give a light penalties across board or properly.

I really feel for these kids
I lost 2 GF's in a row with at SEU but this one would hurt more without a doubt. It does for me and I wasnt even playing!

 

[Kareem]

I fail to see what kareem's comments could possibly achieve in regards to rectifying the situation.

venting, sharing our experiences
wat did any of our comments regarding the 'not penalty' of HAL V3 final achieve?
Our comments regarding Vukovic (doubt they did much if anything at all)

And its not like he deserves any better- he got his $28, we lost wat we were working for for the past 6 months!

etc.
There is no avenue  to rectify this situation. But I do sincerely hope that that ref was having a bad day because thos sorts of decisions are unacceptable.

I am also going around the long way
we didnt lose the Grand Final. No goal was in open play.
Just why on earth would a ref make such a contentious decision?

 

[Kareem]

Kareem.
As a ref i have learnt that some decision go either way as a ref, you cant see the ball, or the hand, or the whole play as yo have 10 players in front of you ect.

As a player i still get annoyed when a call doesnt go our way, just like everyone else.
But as an 'ex-ref' you should, should, show respect towards refs.
We both know inexperienced ref's make dodgy calls, ive had my fair share. Then all the abuse comes from the players, crowd and coaches.
You should probly follw my lead and just take it as it come with refs.
Just like the abuse you would have copped for a dodgy decisoon at some point, no ref's perfect.

i know of difficulties of seeing things
but u dont give a penalty unless u are sure. Hence why it is said to be 'harder' to be fouled inside the box.
There was contact but for goodness sake it isnt illegal to touch player.
I honestly would have yelled out "what was that for" if it was a freekick as even for a freekick it was pretty weak.

I just dont get how inexperience can be cited as a problem when inexperienced ref's dont ref in finals?


Oh and btw credit to Toukely. They played hard, fought well, didnt play dirty (I was a bit unhappy in home and away games with some of the things they did). They won off a dodgy penalty but if it went our way- we would have taken it (who wouldnt)- they defended well and I did not blame Toukley one bit for loss! They didnt cheat, there player didnt dive (he didnt even fall over!- and yes I do understand you dont have to fall overto get a penalty)
In finals SEU=Toukley IMHO
in League Toukley owned us- they were 13 points ahead

 

[Herbs]

Perhaps the ref was good, just made a touch and go penalty call.