CCM Fans and the club

[pjennings]

Short of opening the gates I'm not sure what can be done here. CCM has among the cheapest GA tickets (exc NSW games) in the league. At what point to the club stop being a loss leader?

The answer is to control the stadium. When we are not paying to play there and food and beverage sales are coming to the club prices can be tweaked to encourage casuals. Granted membership should always be cheaper so that would need to be tweaked as well. However, if the club controlled the stadium they would make the money lost through cheaper memberships back that way.

Their is research to show that the Central Coast 'brand' has been highlighted by the CCM and that games bring in money to the region. However, if CCM is unsustainable at the stadium as its primary tenant then the Council really need to look at how to make it sustainable for the benefit of not only the Mariners but for the region. I'm not convinced that this latest version of the Council is any better than any I have seen since the stadium was built. The change-rooms still haven't been built and the screen to my mind is underwhelming.

I still think that long term Mariners control of the stadium is paramount and would advantage the Mariners, the region and the ratepayers.

 

[Insertnamehere]

I think most true fans are keen, or at least receptive, to the idea of some sort of investment in the club but IMO, the key issue is what are they going to invest in. The club (as I understand it) owns very little, not the stadium, not the offices or the COE (they are owned by MC through a separate entity) not even the Merch now that is handled by Rebel, so what would fans be buying a share of? MC owns a licence to operate the Mariners and the FFA even own the brand, which is licensed back to the club. I can’t imagine MC would be allowed to sell shares in the licence, given that belongs to the FFA at the end of the day, so perhaps FP’s suggestion of a Supporters Trust is the only viable option?

Maybe it is worth considering getting dedicated fans to set up an annual trust that funds a single player for the roster but even then that raises a whole heap of side issues (what if that player gets seriously injured or doesn’t cut the mustard to make the squad are just two that spring to mind).

The key thing to bear in mind here is that there needs to actually be something to ‘invest’ in and the term
Investment typically means that some form of return is expected (and that doesn’t have to be monetary). As much as I would personally be prepared to tip in, all of this is simply allowing the current owner to deliberately under invest in the squad and my suggestion is that the FFA should make it so the full amount of the cap has to be used for player wages and if you don’t spend it you lose it.

Sounds simple eh?

How does it work in the Bundesliga?? They have owners who cannot own more than 49% and are often 51% fan owned.

 

[Woollybutt]

How does it work in the Bundesliga?? They have owners who cannot own more than 49% and are often 51% fan owned.

Almost all German clubs (except for some founded by companies for factory workers) were entirely owned by members and basically run as community clubs rather than companies until about 2000. The Bundesliga relaxed the ownership rules so the clubs could be made into public or private companies, but insisted that the members still control at least 51% of voting rights, so most clubs (except for Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, and I think now Leipzig) are at least 51% member owned. That works in Germany because the clubs were already member-owned, so it was just limiting the amount of private ownership. I don't think it'd be as easy to set up a member ownership structure from scratch. Supporters trust would be the only practical option in my opinion.

If fans are serious about wanting a supporter's trust, we'd have to work out what the aim is (supporters' representatives, full board representation, equity, majority ownership, full ownership, etc.). They'd all require different approaches. Then the best thing we could do is get in touch with Supporters Direct, the organisation for establishing supporters trusts in England. I'm pretty sure they've provided advice to clubs outside England before, so that would be the starting point.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Almost all German clubs (except for some founded by companies for factory workers) were entirely owned by members and basically run as community clubs rather than companies until about 2000. The Bundesliga relaxed the ownership rules so the clubs could be made into public or private companies, but insisted that the members still control at least 51% of voting rights, so most clubs (except for Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, and I think now Leipzig) are at least 51% member owned. That works in Germany because the clubs were already member-owned, so it was just limiting the amount of private ownership. I don't think it'd be as easy to set up a member ownership structure from scratch. Supporters trust would be the only practical option in my opinion.

If fans are serious about wanting a supporter's trust, we'd have to work out what the aim is (supporters' representatives, full board representation, equity, majority ownership, full ownership, etc.). They'd all require different approaches. Then the best thing we could do is get in touch with Supporters Direct, the organisation for establishing supporters trusts in England. I'm pretty sure they've provided advice to clubs outside England before, so that would be the starting point.

Its all about having the conversation.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Almost all German clubs (except for some founded by companies for factory workers) were entirely owned by members and basically run as community clubs rather than companies until about 2000. The Bundesliga relaxed the ownership rules so the clubs could be made into public or private companies, but insisted that the members still control at least 51% of voting rights, so most clubs (except for Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, and I think now Leipzig) are at least 51% member owned. That works in Germany because the clubs were already member-owned, so it was just limiting the amount of private ownership. I don't think it'd be as easy to set up a member ownership structure from scratch. Supporters trust would be the only practical option in my opinion.

If fans are serious about wanting a supporter's trust, we'd have to work out what the aim is (supporters' representatives, full board representation, equity, majority ownership, full ownership, etc.). They'd all require different approaches. Then the best thing we could do is get in touch with Supporters Direct, the organisation for establishing supporters trusts in England. I'm pretty sure they've provided advice to clubs outside England before, so that would be the starting point.

Thanks Woolybutt, great post.

 

[Wombat]

The answer is to control the stadium. When we are not paying to play there and food and beverage sales are coming to the club prices can be tweaked to encourage casuals. Granted membership should always be cheaper so that would need to be tweaked as well. However, if the club controlled the stadium they would make the money lost through cheaper memberships back that way.

Their is research to show that the Central Coast 'brand' has been highlighted by the CCM and that games bring in money to the region. However, if CCM is unsustainable at the stadium as its primary tenant then the Council really need to look at how to make it sustainable for the benefit of not only the Mariners but for the region. I'm not convinced that this latest version of the Council is any better than any I have seen since the stadium was built. The change-rooms still haven't been built and the screen to my mind is underwhelming.

I still think that long term Mariners control of the stadium is paramount and would advantage the Mariners, the region and the ratepayers.

I think putting out a competetive team would solve all our problems.

 

[pjennings]

I think putting out a competetive team would solve all our problems.

We had a competitive team that led us to be where we are now. We have to be sustainable. What that means is debatable. What we were then was unsustainable. What we are now is uncompetitive. What we need to be is sustainable AND competitive. I just don't think that is likely to happen without either a decrease in costs or an major injection of funds.

Control of the stadium is the best way to address this because it does both and also offers additional income on non game days.

 

[Woollybutt]

We had a competitive team that led us to be where we are now. We have to be sustainable. What that means is debatable. What we were then was unsustainable. What we are now is uncompetitive. What we need to be is sustainable AND competitive. I just don't think that is likely to happen without either a decrease in costs or an major injection of funds.

Control of the stadium is the best way to address this because it does both and also offers additional income on non game days.

Fully agree. Stadium rights and finishing the COE are our best chance at being sustainable and competitive, it's just a shame that neither of those are really in our control.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Fully agree. Stadium rights and finishing the COE are our best chance at being sustainable and competitive, it's just a shame that neither of those are really in our control.

CoE and a production line of high quality youth players who get a shot at first team.

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

Just saw an advert for the Mariners vs Wanderers on TV, at half time of the Jets vs Victory game. Great job guys was very well put together!

 

[Insertnamehere]

Just saw an advert for the Mariners vs Wanderers on TV, at half time of the Jets vs Victory game. Great job guys was very well put together!

Went today. In spite of the game, I was overcharged for admission and food. $37 for a GA ticket, $10 for food and $4.70 for water. That is out of control. No wonder only 7k turned up. As I said above, in spite of the game. $37 to watch the 2nd worst team getting round, play like dogs.
I don't get out much but I think even scumcorp is cheaper to attend.

 

[BaysideMariner]

At some point we all will stop attending. Everyone has their own breaking point. I will keep paying my membership but my kids don't want to attend anymore. When you continue to deliver shit you get what you deserve. I love the Mariners and have 2 jerseys on my walls. When you see your kids just say they have had enough then I just need to realise there is no reason that I can give them to keep coming.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

And how could you not say it's fair enough. On thing to say to adults to be pragmatic etc and fair weather fans... but how can you expect kids to rationalise 4 years of turning up to see their team lose. It's not good for any club. Look at the state of WSW and ROAR with only a fraction of our suffering. But it's certainly no good for a club that targets families.

 

[Holy]

At some point we all will stop attending. Everyone has their own breaking point. I will keep paying my membership but my kids don't want to attend anymore. When you continue to deliver shit you get what you deserve. I love the Mariners and have 2 jerseys on my walls. When you see your kids just say they have had enough then I just need to realise there is no reason that I can give them to keep coming.

Sadly, this it where we are at as a family too. I've been told by my lot that I'm on my own now for the rest of the season, something I have not ever experienced before, as we have always gone to the games as a family. I'm just numb with the thought, but I can't blame them after the poor effort against Roar last week and after yesterday's whimpered effort, I just knew it was coming.

And I can't even argue that we need to go through the lows to experience the highs in supporting a football team anymore. They have heard that argument too many times. They just don't swallow it anymore.

I'm just so disappointed, not broken yet, but not far away.

You can just see it slipping away. The seats in our bay around us have always been relatively full over the years, but now, the empty outweigh the full. I can only assume people couldn't be bothered anymore, even after paying their membership.

Where to from here, I just don't know.

 

[Pirate Pete]

My son decided he wasn't coming this season. I did get his Mariners Mates or whatever it's called this year, but it hasn't been used once.
He's having much more fun on the beach patrolling at surf life saving.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Sadly, this it where we are at as a family too. I've been told by my lot that I'm on my own now for the rest of the season, something I have not ever experienced before, as we have always gone to the games as a family. I'm just numb with the thought, but I can't blame them after the poor effort against Roar last week and after yesterday's whimpered effort, I just knew it was coming.

And I can't even argue that we need to go through the lows to experience the highs in supporting a football team anymore. They have heard that argument too many times. They just don't swallow it anymore.

I'm just so disappointed, not broken yet, but not far away.

You can just see it slipping away. The seats in our bay around us have always been relatively full over the years, but now, the empty outweigh the full. I can only assume people couldn't be bothered anymore, even after paying their membership.

Where to from here, I just don't know.

This captures my own families experience to a large extent and I’m sure many others. Making the same arguments. But that argument has come to its end.

Which is why I wrote my earlier post. I was not trying to be dramatic. The mood is changing in the stands. These are surrounding supporters and families I’ve sat next to for a decade.

I want to help. I’m really not sure Sean and the club realise this is not a hissy fit I’m seeing - it’s a loss of faith and interest on mass.

 

[nebakke]

I think the "Mariners Spirit" has gotten us through much much further than anyone could have hoped - even with the increase in membership... I can't remember ever sitting at a game, expecting to hear the crowd boo the team off, but it's starting now.
Not only that, but much like you @Forum Phoenix, I'm surrounded by people that I have sat with for a number of years, many of whom drive 1hr+ to get to the games and, they're definitely starting to slip... Talk is starting about whether they even want to renew their memberships at the end of this season.
I think the rot is setting in and, barring a sudden, exceptional, run home, I think we can expect a fair drop in memberships next year... It's starting to smell a lot like where the Jest-fans were at last year.

 

[greenlig]

Adz where's the sad react

 

[Gratis]

It is definitely a threshold moment. If we cross it the club could be in genuine trouble.

We were told to expect a low period where we had to cut costs and probably take a hit in results so that we could adjust and become sustainable.
We were told this would take approximately 2 years.
Proudly, I would argue most fans not only accepted that and got on board - memberships even went up.

4 years on and results are as poor as ever. For a while this season it was mitigated by the fact that we were playing good football and with a little bit of luck would convert future games into results, entertaining football etc.

Hope provides enough fuel to sustain fans for a fair while it seems. But after 100 games, 58 losses and 17 wins - and an apparent DECLINE in playing form - hope is running thin. Endurance for copping body blow after body blow, week after week, is fading. Who can get excited about ANOTHER probable poor performance and devastating loss on the way? For the first time in my life I actually look forward to a split round and a week off from the disappointment.

When the faithful give up and turn their backs [as we're seeing begin to happen]...what then? Doesn't take a tonne of imagination

False economies hey

 

[scottmac]

If things keep tracking the way they have over these 2 seasons with Okon and he doesn't get what he needs in the shape of another cb, lb, right and left sided midfielder and striker then next year will be the worst we've ever seen at this club.

For mine spending the cap is absolute minimum and not necessarily a pass. Someone outside the cap and the full cap spent is what I'd like to see. If Mike cant accommodate then he probably won't have any support from the rusted on's (Who ive never seen react on mass as badly as this year) and there may be calls for us to fold from the media as there had been for Wellington just this week. Our past is the only thing separating us and Wellington right now.

Sean and Mike, next year is the year. We really can't afford another year of being the little club that cant and when I say we I mean the supporters. The lifeblood.