CCM Fans and the club

[Big Al]

No slating here. Great post I think. A lot of things in there I've mused over. So brilliant to see it researched and laid out with such clarity like that.

Though Sydney spend their CAP, they're crediting Sydney as using the above model you mentioned as Clarkey has SFC with the best injury rates they can afford to focus/spend on their first 11 more. Apparently SFC's record was dire until they stole Clarkey away from us. What a loss that's proven to be.

I like the theory of a higher quality 11, combined with a top fitness coach and a few quality utility players like Powell. Our current model is not functioning, though I agree with Big Al in that Okon looks about half way done - so hoping he can shape it a lot more over the next off season after the clean out.

SFC baulk spend is 9 as well not 11 as they have the two Marquees. But they haven’t had there depth tested as you say. injury hasn’t been a problem but take out Bobo and who leads the line?
Take out Brillante or O Neill and who runs the middle
They don’t have a genuine winger with pace either they are relying on skill via Mierzejewski.
Take Wilko or Bujis and who covers the defence.

It’s kids after SImon and Carney I think

 

[Forum Phoenix]

It is, and yet on and on they role...

 

[Big Al]

It is, and yet on and on they role...

There bench is weak. ACL will be a challenge. Watch them prioritise the ACL as the League is theirs already

 

[MrCelery]

The new scoreboard was awesome. But putting the teams, scores and times at the bottom was not so clever. They are hidden behind the goals, The posts and back supports block the view. Hopefully the Club has some say and can adjust the video to put these details at the top.

 

[Pirate Pete]

I thought the first post in this thread after last night's game would be to let Shaun know the team
display last night was totally unacceptable.
And Brama's dummy spit at the end. What can you say?
The blokes on coast fm thought he'd be out for 2 weeks for 2 red cards this season.
Having seen a replay I think he can grab his backpack and go on a four week holiday touring Australia.

 

[Insertnamehere]

I thought the first post in this thread after last night's game would be to let Shaun know the team
display last night was totally unacceptable.
And Brama's dummy spit at the end. What can you say?
The blokes on coast fm thought he'd be out for 2 weeks for 2 red cards this season.
Having seen a replay I think he can grab his backpack and go on a four week holiday touring Australia.

The best part of the season has been exactly the same..... Absolute wasted opportunity this year.
That brama card should have been purple it was that red. I would expect a minimum of 3-5 wks off, maybe more because it's his 2nd offence of the same nature this year.

 

[Big Al]

I thought the first post in this thread after last night's game would be to let Shaun know the team
display last night was totally unacceptable.
And Brama's dummy spit at the end. What can you say?
The blokes on coast fm thought he'd be out for 2 weeks for 2 red cards this season.
Having seen a replay I think he can grab his backpack and go on a four week holiday touring Australia.

Here you go pete
@Shaun Mielekamp
The boys have let you Dan and the rest off the teams great work of the field down with their on field performances. 5k on a Saturday is horrible. Your excellent work is going unrewarded.

The boys need a shooting bonus in there contracts. $50 for every shot, $100 for shots on goal and $200 for goals. The way these boys shoot the club can afford it.

Also tell Paulo to watch the shooting practice in warmups. It’s horrible

I wish I could of given the halftime speech. The boys ears would still be ringing

 

[Forum Phoenix]

@Shaun Mielekamp

No one is more rusted on than me. I've got my ten plus year badge, as does my family and I'm not going anywhere, ever. Since my son turned 18 and has gone awol I still buy the extra gold season ticket just to support the club and invite guests now and I've almost convinced another 3 people on the back of a few games earlier this year to likely join next year – but I'm feeling torn. I really try and do my bit, but it's been so many bad experiences now over the past 4 years. Everyone on here knows I'm generally very optimistic, I'm not perfect, but I'm not a sabre rattler nor a whinger, but I do speak with all the members around me and the good will is running very very low I'm afraid. Worse than anger mate, they're growing despondent now.

Unlike some others, I'm a pragmatist and I've supported what the club has felt it needed to do to survive, I expect as a football supporter to have bad seasons and take the good with the bad, and I also think Okon has been doing a very good job for the most part. But after suffering this long, close is just not good enough and I'm very sincerely concerned that the majority of our fan base can not take much more of this Sean. If there's no more funds for our squad to be had via FFA, Mike's investment, and you can't pull some miraculous further sponsorships out of your hat, then if we want and need change, which I'm sure all our membership would vote unanimously on, then I don't see any other recourse but for the club to 'find another way' (please see below) or look at going into more debt in the short term to ensure we can be competitive for a couple of seasons and build some confidence in our product back up and provide some sense of value to what we're all buying in our memberships.

I personally don't want to see a production line of coaches being thrown into the CCM grinder for failing to do the impossible either. This feels like death by a thousand cuts and I'm very concerned for our future once again mate. Roar supporters are rampaging and they have suffered a mere fraction of what we have. And it's not just yesterday's loss or languishing in the table yet again, it's the fact we just can't buy in enough quality.

So I have a question. Has the club ever genuinely considered becoming a public company and opening up to a broad community of shareholders? Is that something permissible within the current FFA structure?

2,000 shareholders at $1,100 each - after costs/fees would give the club approx 2.1 mill that could be allocated over 3 seasons - $700K per season to our playing roster would in my humble best estimates provide the difference in having the extra 3-4 four quality players we lack to be consistently competitive and reinvigorate our footballing product. I appreciate there's a great deal of work, legals and costs involved in going public, and maybe it would all prove for nought, but maybe it would be the opposite and we'd have 4000 people who'd love to buy into the club and we'd never look back.

Otherwise, if there's no more money coming in and our crowds drop further in a league that's already very stale, with a governing body and corporate overlord who seemingly care very little for us... and the footballs no good year after year... boy... hard to see the silver lining.

 

[priorpeter]

Great post FP.

 

[VicMariner]

I hate seeing fellow Mariners fans hurting.
Something has to give! This can't go on.

Stay strong guys. Even the darkest night has a dawn.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

FP you have touched on some issues nd answered some questions in what will be some future posts on my "Good the Bad and the Ugly" thread.

A great thought provoking post.

 

[Big Al]

@Shaun Mielekamp

No one is more rusted on than me. I've got my ten plus year badge, as does my family and I'm not going anywhere, ever. Since my son turned 18 and has gone awol I still buy the extra gold season ticket just to support the club and invite guests now and I've almost convinced another 3 people on the back of a few games earlier this year to likely join next year – but I'm feeling torn. I really try and do my bit, but it's been so many bad experiences now over the past 4 years. Everyone on here knows I'm generally very optimistic, I'm not perfect, but I'm not a sabre rattler nor a whinger, but I do speak with all the members around me and the good will is running very very low I'm afraid. Worse than anger mate, they're growing despondent now.

Unlike some others, I'm a pragmatist and I've supported what the club has felt it needed to do to survive, I expect as a football supporter to have bad season and take the good with the bad, and I also think Okon has been doing a very good job for the most part. But after suffering this long, close is just not good enough and I'm very sincerely concerned that the majority of our fan base can not take much more of this Sean. If there's no more funds for our squad to be had via FFA, Mike's investment, and you can't pull some miraculous further sponsorships out of your hat, then if we want and need change, which I'm sure all our membership would vote unanimously on, then I don't see any other recourse but for the club to 'find another way' (please see below) or look at going into more debt in the short term to ensure we can be competitive for a couple of seasons and build some confidence in our product back up and provide some sense of value to what we're all buying in our memberships.

I personally don't want to see a production line of coaches being thrown into the CCM grinder for failing to do the impossible either. This feels like death by a thousand cuts and I'm very concerned for our future once again mate. Roar supporters are rampaging and they have suffered a mere fraction of what we have. And it's not just yesterday's loss or languishing in the table yet again, it's the fact we just can't buy in enough quality.

So I have a question. Has the club ever genuinely considered becoming a public company and opening up to a broad community of shareholders? Is that something permissible within the current FFA structure?

2,000 shareholders at $1,100 each - after costs/fees would give the club approx 2.1 mill that could be allocated over 3 seasons - $700K per season to our playing roster would in my humble best estimates provide the difference in having the extra 3-4 four quality players we lack to be consistently competitive and reinvigorate our footballing product. I appreciate there's a great deal of work, legals and costs involved in going public, and maybe it would all prove for nought, but maybe it would be the opposite and we'd have 4000 people who'd love to buy into the club and we'd never look back.

Otherwise, if there's no more money coming in and our crowds drop further in a league that's already very stale, with a governing body and corporate overlord who seemingly care very little for us... and the footballs no good year after year... boy... hard to see the silver lining.

Sorry FP thats structure won’t work. Investors are after profit and then what after 3 years. You may as well throw round the hat.

Also where almost there. We are two really good attackers away. It won’t happen this season. Forget about the rest of the season results wise.

We have gone from absolute crap conceeding a record worst goals. Now this season has fixed that. Next season we clean out the attack.

The frustration is because we are bossing the games and fluffing the finish.

Think of it like a house. The foundations are built but without a roof you still get wet. Put that roof on and it’s a house to be proud of.

Just another 6months of pain.
It hurts more because you can see it but can’t hold it.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Sorry FP thats structure won’t work. Investors are after profit and then what after 3 years. You may as well throw round the hat.

Also where almost there. We are two really good attackers away. It won’t happen this season. Forget about the rest of the season results wise.

We have gone from absolute crap conceeding a record worst goals. Now this season has fixed that. Next season we clean out the attack.

The frustration is because we are bossing the games and fluffing the finish.

Think of it like a house. The foundations are built but without a roof you still get wet. Put that roof on and it’s a house to be proud of.

Just another 6months of pain.
It hurts more because you can see it but can’t hold it.

I like this post but respectfully disagree Big Al. You can attract investors whose primary intent is not to make money but to support and or be a part of something they believe in. Especially at this low end and with the data base, community outreach, and profile we have. This would obviously be what it is, and yes that is merely a stopgap solution to help the club become more liquid and not a money making venture for serious investors. But it is also a chance for local stakeholders like myself who would be willing to part with aK or 2 to buy into and support something that they love and help it prosper and I'm sure some would do it even just for the novelty. I've personally raised close to a million myself in business propositions that were 90% values based as opposed to a chance to being a serious way to make money, so I'm not entirely talking out my ass on this one.

I don't see it as a long term solution, but it is one possible short term answer to bridge a very difficult period and perhaps end the cycle of suffering before it ends us.

I love your tough it out, suck it up, tough love medicine though. But I'm not convinced that Okon without some more additional resources won't just find us 3 players short and losing next season as well. It's one thing finding quality defenders on the cheap, but attackers... we all know that's where the real money is spent.

 

[Big Al]

I like this post but respectfully disagree Big Al. You can attract investors whose primary intent is not to make money but to support and or be a part of something they believe in. Especially at this low end and with the data base, community outreach, and profile we have. This would obviously be what it is, and yes that is merely a stopgap solution to help the club become more liquid and not a money making venture for serious investors. But it is also a chance for local stakeholders like myself who would be willing to part with aK or 2 to buy into and support something that they love and help it prosper and I'm sure some would do it even just for the novelty. I've personally raised close to a million myself in business propositions that were 90% values based as opposed to a chance to being a serious way to make money, so I'm not entirely talking out my ass on this one.

I don't see it as a long term solution, but it is one possible short term answer to bridge a very difficult period and perhaps end the cycle of suffering before it ends us.

I love your tough it out, suck it up, tough love medicine though. But I'm not convinced that Okon without some more additional resources won't just find us 3 players short and losing next season as well. It's one thing finding quality defenders on the cheap, but attackers... we all know that's where the real money is spent.

What are they investing in though. So they want the rights to abuse the players at home etc post match. He’s my player I bought him type stuff. I know the angle you are thinking of it just is not practical imo.

2018 - (14) off contract and none have been resigned that we know of. Have added Melling and Skapetis from original list and taken out Asdrubal and Ashcroft.

5 of the wingers come strikers out of contract. So chance to totally renew the attack. Only TBT is staying. Haven’t included Wales as not on squad contract.
Pain
Bingham
Powell
Appiah
Skapetis

All keepers are up but shorely Kennedy resigns.
Kennedy
Pearce
Glover (Loan)

The mids are set and Melling might stay
Melling

5 defenders out of contract. We probably loose the two Roses.
Rose
McGing
Golec
Rowles
Rose

Plenty of spots and money for the rejuvenation of the attack

 

[Wombat]

I think we are far better than last season but if anything we are DUMMMER. I have seen Okon at Tuggerah and he is a decent coach for sure,
I'm completely unconviced by Jolic but guess we are stuck with him. Im sure Monty would be a far better option.
Ive made my opion of Mike blatantly clear and it rhymes with Mike Hunt.
Im willing to put 5 to 10k to save our club

 

[Forum Phoenix]

What are they investing in though. So they want the rights to abuse the players at home etc post match.

Ha! I think we could spin it a bit better than that. Though that might see a handful for sure

There is the chance the club could become profitable in time. In terms of impractical, don't get me wrong, lot of issues certainly, but it would be not be first time this has been done by a club to stop it from going under or to help it expand. Gone out of vogue but plenty of clubs have done it and sure they've never traded well, but it definitely helped them survive or consolidate and build. And if you don't finish the year in the black. You don't pay dividends to the shareholders.

A supporters trust is another possible, simpler option.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I think we are far better than last season but if anything we are DUMMMER. I have seen Okon at Tuggerah and he is a decent coach for sure,
I'm completely unconviced by Jolic but guess we are stuck with him. Im sure Monty would be a far better option.
Ive made my opion of Mike blatantly clear and it rhymes with Mike Hunt.
Im willing to put 5 to 10k to save our club

There you go. Between Wombat and I already sold 12 odd shares

The Wombat and FP – CCM Supporters Trust.

Coming soon.

 

[pjennings]

@Shaun Mielekamp

No one is more rusted on than me. I've got my ten plus year badge, as does my family and I'm not going anywhere, ever. Since my son turned 18 and has gone awol I still buy the extra gold season ticket just to support the club and invite guests now and I've almost convinced another 3 people on the back of a few games earlier this year to likely join next year – but I'm feeling torn. I really try and do my bit, but it's been so many bad experiences now over the past 4 years. Everyone on here knows I'm generally very optimistic, I'm not perfect, but I'm not a sabre rattler nor a whinger, but I do speak with all the members around me and the good will is running very very low I'm afraid. Worse than anger mate, they're growing despondent now.

Unlike some others, I'm a pragmatist and I've supported what the club has felt it needed to do to survive, I expect as a football supporter to have bad seasons and take the good with the bad, and I also think Okon has been doing a very good job for the most part. But after suffering this long, close is just not good enough and I'm very sincerely concerned that the majority of our fan base can not take much more of this Sean. If there's no more funds for our squad to be had via FFA, Mike's investment, and you can't pull some miraculous further sponsorships out of your hat, then if we want and need change, which I'm sure all our membership would vote unanimously on, then I don't see any other recourse but for the club to 'find another way' (please see below) or look at going into more debt in the short term to ensure we can be competitive for a couple of seasons and build some confidence in our product back up and provide some sense of value to what we're all buying in our memberships.

I personally don't want to see a production line of coaches being thrown into the CCM grinder for failing to do the impossible either. This feels like death by a thousand cuts and I'm very concerned for our future once again mate. Roar supporters are rampaging and they have suffered a mere fraction of what we have. And it's not just yesterday's loss or languishing in the table yet again, it's the fact we just can't buy in enough quality.
.

I agree with you FP to this point. However, I just can’t see enough ‘mum and dad investors’ willing to put that sort of money you are talking about for what is essentially a short term fix that will need replenishment in a few years.

I too find it very hard to contemplate where we are at the moment.

However, I differ from some in that I think we not only have to be looking at the football side but the whole club.

• I love the engagement of Shaun and DDTMM but their goals in the strategic plan are for 12,000 members and average crowds of 14,000 at the end of 5 years. (We are currently coming to the end of year 1). The results this year would suggest that we may be on track for the members (the percentage of full season memberships though is unknown) but we are tracking for at most a 500 increase in crowds in spite of having 3 extra NSW only games this year. This shows that in spite of an immense effort that the battle seems to be being lost.
• Once again we have spent at the salary floor and it shows. We were told we would be spending at the cap this year. If things have changed because of a disappointing TV deal then I would love to have known that.
• The idea of the coaching merry-go-round continuing at CCM is something that I would want to avoid if possible. I like a lot of what Okon does but am incredibly frustrated by other aspects. However, he is only halfway through rebuilding the squad and has done so to this stage with one hand tied behind his back. I don’t want to see a coaching merry-go-round at the Mariners and want to see what he can do with a full squad plus our every third year marquee. That said a football manager is always judged by results and he will need to deliver before everyone's patience is gone
• The COE has ground to a halt probably due to the access to Ibis being delayed until the major Tuggerah Straight / Wyong Rd was completed
• The additional change rooms which the interim council said would be ready for last October have still not be started.
• The new screen seems to be twice the size of the interim screen – not the original screen. The image is also not as sharp as some others in the HAL.
• The cost of a ticket for a non-member actively discourages attendances.
• We are charged $6 for a sausage sandwich at the stadium

There is so much wrong at the moment that even sausage sandwiches are causing me angst. There are fixes for each of these problems but simply put - the strategy is not working.

The challenge for the club is to determine why it isn't working and to devise ways to get back on track. I think there are many things that the club has done better in previous years than they do now. Equally the club does some things a lot better than in the past. My concern is the club is essentially a small one with a small staff all trying to do their best. The focus is on delivery but maybe they are concentrating too much on executing their plans without continually examining whether their plans are working.

 

[Timmah]

The cost of a ticket for a non-member actively discourages attendances.

Short of opening the gates I'm not sure what can be done here. CCM has among the cheapest GA tickets (exc NSW games) in the league. At what point to the club stop being a loss leader?

 

[Ozhammer]

I think most true fans are keen, or at least receptive, to the idea of some sort of investment in the club but IMO, the key issue is what are they going to invest in. The club (as I understand it) owns very little, not the stadium, not the offices or the COE (they are owned by MC through a separate entity) not even the Merch now that is handled by Rebel, so what would fans be buying a share of? MC owns a licence to operate the Mariners and the FFA even own the brand, which is licensed back to the club. I can’t imagine MC would be allowed to sell shares in the licence, given that belongs to the FFA at the end of the day, so perhaps FP’s suggestion of a Supporters Trust is the only viable option?

Maybe it is worth considering getting dedicated fans to set up an annual trust that funds a single player for the roster but even then that raises a whole heap of side issues (what if that player gets seriously injured or doesn’t cut the mustard to make the squad are just two that spring to mind).

The key thing to bear in mind here is that there needs to actually be something to ‘invest’ in and the term
Investment typically means that some form of return is expected (and that doesn’t have to be monetary). As much as I would personally be prepared to tip in, all of this is simply allowing the current owner to deliberately under invest in the squad and my suggestion is that the FFA should make it so the full amount of the cap has to be used for player wages and if you don’t spend it you lose it.

Sounds simple eh?