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Referees: The good, the bad, the ugly!

Kareem

Well-Known Member
Wilson said:
wardy said:
masmariner said:
From the dug out said:
This brings me back to some mates of mine at The Entrance!

2 or 3 of the lads are brickies and the rest of the team were brickies labours! (well not quiet, but you know where i am coming from!

Whats the difference?

If you have a mate who is out of work, of course you help him out! who wouldn't!

And Yes Eag's last game was back in round 1 this year!

Not really wot do you mean that the players at the entrance are "paid" by there employers to play for the entrance. ?

Who's Eag's. ?

well this has gone way off topic, where is the relevance to referees and yes i have read previous replies to see where it happened. Anyway, i play for the entrance and i will tell you nobody for fact gets paid there, i didnt even get a reduced rego to get me there as an ex super league player. i dont get the whole brickies and brickies labourers thing as the club does not own the bricky bussiness. 2 players are partners and 1 of them now plays at doylo, yes the lads are a very tight knit bunch and your right 2-3 of them do work together but has nothing to do with football or the entrance football club. Cant see how it is being used as an example and to comment on the budgie thing, i DONT KNOW FOR FACT but i have heard in previous seasons whilst i was at lightning that some players at budgie were receiving some sort of financial gain but i also have spoken to byrnes at start of season and i know shirl well and from what i have been told there is no player receiving any gain from the club to play football, only those that actually work for the club on an above board legal way getting paid award wage and no more. I agree with replies that have stated that no-one was actually saying that this was happening just a way that it could happen and that wilson was biting hard on the topic and getting defencive, understandable, i would too if it looked like people were trying to say that about someone i know ( hence why i am getting in on the conversation ). start a new thread on topic if relevant and stick to thread topic.

Well said Wardy.. I think the whole Brickie's thing may have been about the old clubhouse years ago.. I think.

Guys what he may have meant (i think so at least)
Some guys needed work- ie. because they were unemployed
So 2 of the brickies organised labouring jobs for unemployed teammates.
This story was used as a comparison suggesting that Budgewoi were helping out said player, by giving him the groundskeeper job.
So basically saying that it wasn't a case of under the table payments, more so helping out a mate ;)


Back on topic hopefully now ;)
 
W

Wilson

Guest
Come to think of it in my travels I have never met a bad person associated with that club. Not yet anyway!
 

kanewillow

Well-Known Member
just a quick question is there a rule out there o if a referee is alowed to referee a premier league game involving the club they play for ????
 

CCRef

Member
kanewillow said:
just a quick question is there a rule out there o if a referee is alowed to referee a premier league game involving the club they play for ????

No.  The only rule used is that a person cannot officiate a team involving a family member.  i.e. if a family member plays or coach a team then that referee cannot officiate (either at the ref or A/R) in a game involving that team. 

Hope this Helps

Darren Sprod
Chairman
CC Football Referees
 

tikky

Active Member
CCRef said:
kanewillow said:
just a quick question is there a rule out there o if a referee is alowed to referee a premier league game involving the club they play for ????

No.  The only rule used is that a person cannot officiate a team involving a family member.  i.e. if a family member plays or coach a team then that referee cannot officiate (either at the ref or A/R) in a game involving that team. 

Hope this Helps

Darren Sprod
Chairman
CC Football Referees
Just a query
Why not?

I understand how unpractical it would be across the all competitions considering that many ref's in particular the young ones prefer to ref locally hence at their own club.

But for the premier competition on the coast, surely it could be organised to ensure that this never happens? I mean only the 'elite' referees are chosen for this limited amount of games (5, 10 if 2nd division is included), and apparently don't ref same team in consecutive games (is that true?)

I personally have never seen any referees from same club officiating a premier league game (that I knew of). But I know which clubs 3 senior refs play for and surely they aren't the only ones associated
If I ever saw one of them ref their club vs my club in a match I would probably question a few of their calls (hence would it not be better to avoid such drama's).
Or is it just one of the things that people might find to whinge about regardless (I admit I hear terrible things about Premier League games, for no reason except losing :p)
 

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
Tied up workwise last Saturday. that would be 9/5, and could not get back to my guys' 35 game. Called in at Mountains to watch a mate who plays 45's for another club.
Whilst in the past I have bagged referees, and in turn do not appologe to them,the referee who did this game was great. It was played in good spirit throughout. On only a couple of occassions I heard what would be defined as disent by other referees was washed aside by the referee particularly as in each case players from both teams said "shut up, he is the ref" to the possibly dissenting player.
This ref was not young but his comments clearly audible to not only the players but the sideline were  great and kept the lid on the game. Instead of treating G45 as "World Cup", one of his quotes heard by the crowd as well as the players, he treated the game comensurate to the abilities of the players in the grade he was refereeing. This is what we want in referees.
I am aware by other posts that the refereees accociation monitor this forum. Darren, please give us this referee anytime.
 

OJ

Well-Known Member
Premier league game on sunday the ref was Gordie. He had a very good game!!Match was played in good spirit though!!
 

concerned

Member
On way to family do last Sunday decided to call in at Doylo to watch some football before the party. Watched some comedy on one field, MAA?, good fun for all. At same time watched reserve grade, DOY v UMI, on other field. The unofifcial referee on the MAA should have been doing reserve grade. He would have done a much better job. At least the unofficial ref saw fouls committed and also got his direction right. Actually he also got his offside calls correct on more occassions that the older reserve grade linesman who was obviously going to referee 1st grade. Slow would be a compliment to this bloke. Did not get to watch 1st grade. Maybe he was saving himself?
Back to the supposed Reserve grade referee. He missed so many pushes in the back and so many late tackles from both sides he must have been blind. He was consistently too far away from play.
He was under constant abuse from players of both teams but did not seem able to combat this. Seemed to prefer to turn deaf ear to same. Maybe he has copped so much dissent that he is inured to it.
Unfortunately he was refereeing well above his abilities. Referees Association keep boasting they have increased numbers. Unfortunately this is not in the ranks of better qualified referees. Looked this bloke up on referees site and he is grouped in MAA not Reserve grade. Why was he on this game? Maybe he was being assessed for upgrade. Hope he was and inspector did the right thing by failing him. If there was an inspector and he did not then the inspector should also be failed.
Ask players from both teams. All were abusing him during and at end of game.
Please referee's association,  good money is paid for referees. Can we please get our money's worth.
 

tikky

Active Member
Mate, it seems to be a problem all round.
There have been refs for years in 1st grade and reserve who clearly aren't up to it!
I mean I dont doubt their knowledge of the laws, their top notch level of interpretation as well as their ability (varies between certain refs) to keep players and coaches under control...
But these qualities are all compromised by the simple fact that most of them aren't fit enough.
If they aren't fit enough they can't help but to be a 'halfway' or 'centre circle' ref- ie. very rarely move from halfway!
Like everyone on the sidelines say, like you (CONCERNED) have said, by being such a distance away from the ball its just too difficult for them to call.

Unfortunately my knowledge of the 'experienced' ref's lead me to believe only a handful of the refs are anywhere near ideal fitness standards, perhaps the only one comfortably there is KH, but he is a PL player!
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
concerned - you do raise a couple of issues that CCFRI does have some problems with.

Referees do get assessed on the field, but only 2-3 games a year (there are limited resources available), and this determines whether they get placed in a reserve grade/first grade panel.

However, being a good AR is a different skill, but unfortunately that isn't really a consideration for the reserve/first grade refs.  If they're a good ref but not so good an AR, then that won't affect their appointments.  Why is this?

First off, the reserve grade ref will line first grade, and vice versa.  Really there's no way around this - the referees simply don't earn enough to make it worth their while to turn up for one game.  Unfortunately, I'm sure you can imagine the difficulties that places on appointments - especially with some of the older AR's who may be able to handle a reserve grade match but can't keep up with first grade.

It would be ideal if our officials also received inspections as an AR and this contributed to their panel position - but I hate to say it, I don't think the talent pool is deep enough to support that.  Unfortunately a LOT of the decent referees have disappeared over the last few years, especially the talented youngsters.  Partly this is because some leave to referee with Federation in Sydney (if you want to get noticed, or ref a higher standard of football, go to Sydney).  Although when I refereed on the coast, if I was the first grade ref I would take it easy on the reserve grade line - but you learn to pick your moments, when you can be lazy and when you can't afford to be.  Unfortunately, doing those 2 games can be pretty darn tough.

I am now reffing in Melbourne, and the first grade ref does not get appointed to any other games - however, we get paid 2-3 times what Central Coast referees get paid, so it's worth our while.  Unfortunately, this means that the reserve grade games get no AR's at all...

As for why an AA panel ref was on the reserve grade panel - it may have been a question of availability.  I also believe there is some flexibility for officials to move between panels during the season, if he's had favourable inspection reports.  Frequently AA panelled officials have been called up to do reserves and firsts when there's no other option. 

Unfortunately the fitness test is a mere formality, and somebody with half a leg and no arms could pass it without breaking a sweat.  Fitness and positioning is also only one small part of how referees get assessed on the field, so being unfit generally isn't going to affect the mark too much, unless that leads to problems (missing fouls and so forth).

That's assuming the inspector isn't overly lenient on an official's positioning...

Some referees are very lenient on dissent, and they are permitted a fair level of discretion.  When the game gets a bit out of hand the ref has the choice of carding, carding and carding or trying to stay out of the limelight as much as possible, unless something particularly drastic is said/happens.  Once things get a bit hectic it's very, very difficult to find a good middle ground - so it sounds like the ref would prefer to tolerate the dissent then show the cards a bit too much.  Same with pushing in the back and other fouls - some are quite lenient, but as you say, when you're behind play it's quite difficult to be able to make the decision either way.

At least if the ref is behind play a lot then there's an equal chance of him missing fouls from both teams :D
 

wardy

Active Member
After the weekends game and watching another premier league game on the sunday i want to raise the point of stoppage time added to the end of the game and where the refs are finding so much time to add on. eg. my game (entrance v berkeley vale on saturday night ), late in the game was a hard tackle which i thought was a fair tackle but we got a free kick for it, after player was treated i asked the ref how long to go and he stated 2minutes. he then played a further 4 and a bit minutes in which berkeley vale scored with the last kick of the game ( 10 seconds before he blew whistle for full time ). When asked at end of game that, that was a long 2 minutes he replied yeah i know wardy im sorry. After a good hard game with also playing with 10 men for over an hour, we felt we were robbed of a point and a worthy one at that, especially since we are fighting to stay out of relegation spot. How does this happen. Also on sunday i went to watch umina v east gosford in the premier league, quite a good game for the neutral supporter to watch, refereed by sproddy, whilst the game itself was refereed well we again had a problem with stoppage time that i couldnt see justified as there was hardly any all game, east gosford hit the front with what i could see was 5 mins to go. full time came and went by my watch and another spectators watch and another 7-8 mins appeared to be played. in that time umina scored to goals to take the game 3-2 in the end. Now i had the teams kicking off 2nd half at 3:45 by my watch and the full time whistle went at  4:38pm. I feel that east gosford were robbed of 3 points and im sure they feel the same way. How can this continue to happen. Do the refs just forget to look at their watch. Not sour grapes just 2 games in the top level with the same thing happening and two teams hard done by.
 

OJ

Well-Known Member
wardy said:
After the weekends game and watching another premier league game on the sunday i want to raise the point of stoppage time added to the end of the game and where the refs are finding so much time to add on. eg. my game (entrance v berkeley vale on saturday night ), late in the game was a hard tackle which i thought was a fair tackle but we got a free kick for it, after player was treated i asked the ref how long to go and he stated 2minutes. he then played a further 4 and a bit minutes in which berkeley vale scored with the last kick of the game ( 10 seconds before he blew whistle for full time ). When asked at end of game that, that was a long 2 minutes he replied yeah i know wardy im sorry. After a good hard game with also playing with 10 men for over an hour, we felt we were robbed of a point and a worthy one at that, especially since we are fighting to stay out of relegation spot. How does this happen. Also on sunday i went to watch umina v east gosford in the premier league, quite a good game for the neutral supporter to watch, refereed by sproddy, whilst the game itself was refereed well we again had a problem with stoppage time that i couldnt see justified as there was hardly any all game, east gosford hit the front with what i could see was 5 mins to go. full time came and went by my watch and another spectators watch and another 7-8 mins appeared to be played. in that time umina scored to goals to take the game 3-2 in the end. Now i had the teams kicking off 2nd half at 3:45 by my watch and the full time whistle went at  4:38pm. I feel that east gosford were robbed of 3 points and im sure they feel the same way. How can this continue to happen. Do the refs just forget to look at their watch. Not sour grapes just 2 games in the top level with the same thing happening and two teams hard done by.

Wardy I was at your game and I found the ref's decision to allow so much time very confusing. You guys fought very well and deserved a point. Your opponents have had some very good fortune this year although the goal was very well taken.
 

hasbeen

Well-Known Member
Don't forget ... stoppage time includes injuries, substitutions etc ... we actually had a clock on the Umina game and also asked the linesman regularly how long there was to go ... we though that not enough stoppage time was played ...!
 

OJ

Well-Known Member
hasbeen said:
Don't forget ... stoppage time includes injuries, substitutions etc ... we actually had a clock on the Umina game and also asked the linesman regularly how long there was to go ... we though that not enough stoppage time was played ...!

There was def. way too much played on Saturday night..The Entrance were robbed
 

CCRef

Member
Wardy,

Cant comment on your game as I was not involved but the Umina v East Gosford game played 6 minutes and 11 seconds of Stopage time.  I know because I run two watches.  1 that runs out and 1 that stops and starts.  The reason that such a length was added on was for 4 substitutions 2 Injury treatments (in the second half) and there was only one Match ball available so every time it went out for a longer than normal period (which at Umina was a fair bit) I stopped the watch.  Both teams were asking for it. 

Hope this answers your question

Regards
Darren Sprod
CC Football Referees
 

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