R6: Mariners vs Phoenix at GIO Canberra

[Pirate Pete]

Well the Canberra experiment was an even bigger disaster than North Sydney.
Pathetic football served up in front of a crowd of 3000 tops.
2 coaches went from Gosford......you can cut that down to a minibus for the 2nd game.
Where next MC.....Darwin?

Yeah I'm not sure the whole idea was to get people from the coast to go.
I know if I'd gone I'd have spent the night there at least.

But the good people of Canberra have found out what it would be like to have an
A league team. That is 5.30 kick off in the middle of summer.

Better than watching the Raiders on a cold winters day?

*apologies but drunker than when I posted earlier.
surely Austin was onside.
Yeah, stop calling me Shirley.

 

[Wombat]

The good people of Canberra told Mike to f**k off.

 

[Gratis]

wtf was that bs

I'd like to reopen the formation thread.
Arnie set us up 4231 before leaving and 3 coaches since have had awful results maintaining it. We don't have the right players for it and haven't since 2013.
It's hard to change from it I get. With a weak backline it's hard to move away from 2 DMs for safety, and you don't want to drop either Monty or Tav anyway. But without a 10 it doesn't work and the striker is wasted without the service. It's ineffectual. Powell and Royo would work better as a striking pair imo with the cattle we have.
The other issue is you really need an off season to implement a new formation so we're probably stuck with it until Paolo can recruit for himself and set up as he likes

 

[Gratis]

Paolo in the press
“That’s not the performance we were after, we’re certainly disappointed but we will go home, have a look at it and see exactly where we went good, work on it and hopefully learn from it,” Okon said.
“Our next match is the #F3Derby our full focus is on that now, another important game.
“We were slow out of the blocks, we didn’t have the possession we wanted to have and we didn’t really move and offer support when we had the ball which made it easier for Wellington to press us and we turned over the ball far too cheaply in that first half.
“You never want to lose a player after 25 minutes, [Scott Galloway] it’s nothing serious but we probably won’t know until it settles down over the next 48 hours.
“We had plenty of support travel down from the Central Coast so I am a little bit sad that we weren’t able to send them home with a smile on their face.
“When we moved the ball and when we executed what we work on and what we speak about before the game I thought we looked dangerous. It wasn’t that often in the first half but in the second half we had chances to sneak a goal and that probably would have given us a different type of ending to the game but it wasn’t to be. Wellington fully deserve their victory.
“I don’t want to take anything away from Roy Krishna who is a very dangerous attacker but we probably didn’t defend how we needed to in those situations which is a big reason why Wellington scored two goals.
“That’s probably our worst performance of the season so far, certainly that first half and tonight wasn’t at the level we expected, it needs to be better next week.
“Connor is a threat, he gives us that penetration when we’re able to break lines. This is his sixth game this season and I don’t think Connor would be able to remember when he put six A-League games together so it’s a long road, he’s still not at the level of fitness to be at the level we want for 90 minutes. He’s certainly working hard and hopefully after a few more weeks he should get to that level of fitness that’s required,” Okon said.
http://www.ccmariners.com.au/article/mariners-fall-to-phoenix-in-canberra/1mpxl33duhpef1qdcpbs8vfl7f

 

[Wombat]

442 is basic and easy to implement.
Leicester won the EPL playing it.
Coached well it is hard to beat. Arnie plays it sometimes at Bling as do Perth.
Our current shape has given us horrendous results

 

[Big Al]

Paolo in the press
“That’s not the performance we were after, we’re certainly disappointed but we will go home, have a look at it and see exactly where we went good, work on it and hopefully learn from it,” Okon said.
“Our next match is the #F3Derby our full focus is on that now, another important game.
“We were slow out of the blocks, we didn’t have the possession we wanted to have and we didn’t really move and offer support when we had the ball which made it easier for Wellington to press us and we turned over the ball far too cheaply in that first half.
“You never want to lose a player after 25 minutes, [Scott Galloway] it’s nothing serious but we probably won’t know until it settles down over the next 48 hours.
“We had plenty of support travel down from the Central Coast so I am a little bit sad that we weren’t able to send them home with a smile on their face.
“When we moved the ball and when we executed what we work on and what we speak about before the game I thought we looked dangerous. It wasn’t that often in the first half but in the second half we had chances to sneak a goal and that probably would have given us a different type of ending to the game but it wasn’t to be. Wellington fully deserve their victory.
“I don’t want to take anything away from Roy Krishna who is a very dangerous attacker but we probably didn’t defend how we needed to in those situations which is a big reason why Wellington scored two goals.
“That’s probably our worst performance of the season so far, certainly that first half and tonight wasn’t at the level we expected, it needs to be better next week.
“Connor is a threat, he gives us that penetration when we’re able to break lines. This is his sixth game this season and I don’t think Connor would be able to remember when he put six A-League games together so it’s a long road, he’s still not at the level of fitness to be at the level we want for 90 minutes. He’s certainly working hard and hopefully after a few more weeks he should get to that level of fitness that’s required,” Okon said.
http://www.ccmariners.com.au/article/mariners-fall-to-phoenix-in-canberra/1mpxl33duhpef1qdcpbs8vfl7f

Finally he's not bullshiting. Fair assessment

5 of 6 away from home looked to catch up with them and maybe the expectations.

Nothing worse than playing a team you know you should beat and you just seem to be in 2nd gear and can't get out of it. Gotta love sport

 

[Forum Phoenix]

First up. Cow paddok. No grass, players slipping everywhere, no crowd, dying in the heat, (Where the hell was the drink break FFA? No we have to get to the next *important* game on time...) f**king shambles. Ref barring a few moments had a very good game I thought.

Wellington were more up for it and for mine we were sloppy (have to check the stats but looked like then worst passing display this season) and we looked out enthused barring Monty, Roy (as ever) and Pain... and with Krishna our defence was out paced. Which is why its even more imperative you have to stay f**king goal side of him, don't lose sight of him and track his runs. Izzo was very good again barring his one costly no mans land goal. Our off the ball movement was also the worst it's been - and communication/concentration was off - the heat certainly would have played it's part - but you need to do what you need to do to win games.

Players...

Izzo - as said. Continuing to grow.
Roux - too much in his shell tonight for my liking - I think the combination play between him and Fab needs to improve. Didn't do enough in attack yet still got caught too high to be of any use on multiple occasions.
Faty - thought he worked hard, decent game, just lacks stop start pace so requires cover at times which McGing can't give. Good on him strapping up and getting back out there. Dangerous tackle - looked like it would have hurt - lucky to escape without a serious knee injury - if he has. Would have bet decent money on a tear. Best of the back 4.
Mc Ging - the workload and Wellington's threat looked too much for him. His body shape is still poor at times, heading has been good this season but tonight Welly dominated us aerially. You can't put a weak LB next to him. Too inexperienced and makes bad decisions and gets himself into knots. Posc is not perfect but still a good way ahead of him imo and a better/faster pairing for Faty.
Galloway - already sorely missed.
Neil - better midfielder that he is an FB, and he shouldn't be starting in the HAL as a midfielder...no point ripping into him...he's a converted LM and just looks below HAL standard. Not sure an out of position Posc wouldn't do better there till Galloway returns. Neil links ok in attack but will continue to cost us goals - which has to stop.
Taveres - looked like he saved his legs for the second half, we need this player to lead, when he takes a back seat we become gormless. Rose for Powell helped balance our intended possession game I thought.
Monty - busted a gut - few technical errors, but you can't ask for too much more from him. Every player gives his effort today and it's a different game.
Fab - some good moments, but his final ball both passing and shooting is costing us - we need better quality from him in the front third or imo Trent is looking the better option. Trent's pace is always a threat, he consistently finds space and he does the simple things well and effectively - like a good final ball.
Pain - worked hard and had some good moments, but was too often isolated and shut down. That f**king Tratt guy had a good game. Pain needs his LB, Powell and or Roy to get closer to him.
Powell - such a "solid' player and in some ways his best game so far - or at least he appeared more involved - but still not enough and I think the biggest issue with him in this position is he is not a specialist at a through ball with great feet like say Finkler or Carrusca etc. Nor is his major strength holding up the ball to bring others into the play - Like McBreen and Matty S did for us when being deployed here. I'm still unsure... unrealistic to think yo can stick him here and that it's not going to need time - but at PRESENT, we need more.
Roy - always works hard, though less so in the heat by his lofty standards. He's been crying out for consistent intelligent service since the day he joined. Was let down by his wingers and CAM in that regard today. Trent and him seem the best pairing service wise. Pain will get better I'm sure. Would have been a cracker if he got that turn and volley.
Rose - I'm not sure will imprint himself on the game like we need yet, and I fear a straight swap with Powell would be gaining one thing but losing another.
Trent - as said

 

[Wombat]

Paolo in the press
“That’s not the performance we were after, we’re certainly disappointed but we will go home, have a look at it and see exactly where we went good, work on it and hopefully learn from it,” Okon said.
“Our next match is the #F3Derby our full focus is on that now, another important game.
“We were slow out of the blocks, we didn’t have the possession we wanted to have and we didn’t really move and offer support when we had the ball which made it easier for Wellington to press us and we turned over the ball far too cheaply in that first half.
“You never want to lose a player after 25 minutes, [Scott Galloway] it’s nothing serious but we probably won’t know until it settles down over the next 48 hours.
“We had plenty of support travel down from the Central Coast so I am a little bit sad that we weren’t able to send them home with a smile on their face.
“When we moved the ball and when we executed what we work on and what we speak about before the game I thought we looked dangerous. It wasn’t that often in the first half but in the second half we had chances to sneak a goal and that probably would have given us a different type of ending to the game but it wasn’t to be. Wellington fully deserve their victory.
“I don’t want to take anything away from Roy Krishna who is a very dangerous attacker but we probably didn’t defend how we needed to in those situations which is a big reason why Wellington scored two goals.
“That’s probably our worst performance of the season so far, certainly that first half and tonight wasn’t at the level we expected, it needs to be better next week.
“Connor is a threat, he gives us that penetration when we’re able to break lines. This is his sixth game this season and I don’t think Connor would be able to remember when he put six A-League games together so it’s a long road, he’s still not at the level of fitness to be at the level we want for 90 minutes. He’s certainly working hard and hopefully after a few more weeks he should get to that level of fitness that’s required,” Okon said.
http://www.ccmariners.com.au/article/mariners-fall-to-phoenix-in-canberra/1mpxl33duhpef1qdcpbs8vfl7f

So an unfit winger has been our best player this season.
Our movement off the ball was disgraceful in this game and as usual the back 4 were very poor. The central midfield was sub par as well.
At least Paul acknowledged we were shit for a change.
I can't do player reviews because it is too negative while we play this poorly.
3pts Izzo
2pts Paddy
1pt. Pain
The only amusing moment was when they showed the table after the game on the big screen. Adelaide are bottom and someone yelled out..." oh good, someone is more shit than us!"
Gallows humour but it did lighten a dark mood.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

442 is basic and easy to implement.
Leicester won the EPL playing it.
Coached well it is hard to beat. Arnie plays it sometimes at Bling.
Our current shape has given us horrendous results

It also leaves you typically out numbered in the midfield and forces you to play direct. Arnie had the right cattle for his narrow diamond.
Patrick was key, such a good distributor and defender that our wingbacks were truly given license to run riot. And ball playing players like weemac and Olly who are vey good at keeping the ball. And Sterj was ever reliable and a great hold up man, Matty Ryans distribution etc...

But I don't think that squad was as well suited for a 4231 and personally, I don't think our current squad is ideal either - but worse with a 442.
DM is our most well filled spot. We lack the control at the back. No true ten. But Powell would be better suited up there with Roy i think.

And... it's not Paolo's philosophy. Problem is he still needs a minimum of 3 more class players to truly be able to do what he wants I suspect. But we'll see. Today was a blip on the graph. But you get those. And overall we're still tracking on an upwards trend I'd say.

 

[Wombat]

First up. Cow paddok. No grass, players slipping everywhere, no crowd, dying in the heat, (Where the hell was the drink break FFA? No we have to get to the next *important* game on time...) f**king shambles. Ref barring a few moments had a very good game I thought.

Wellington were more up for it and for mine we were sloppy (have to check the stats but looked like then worst passing display this season) and we looked out enthused barring Monty, Roy (as ever) and Pain... and with Krishna or defence out paced. Which is why its even more imperative you have to stay f**king goal side of him, don't lose sight of him and track his runs. Izzo was very good again barring his one costly no mans land goal. Our off the ball movement was also the worst it's been - and communication/concentration was off - the heat certainly would have played it's part - but you need to do what yo need to do to win games.

Players...

Izzo - as said. Continuing to grow.
Roux - too much in his shell tonight for my liking - I think the combination play between him and Fab needs to improve. Didn't do enough in attack yet still got caught too high to be of any use on multiple occasions.
Faty - thought he worked hard, decent game, just lacks stop start pace so requires cover at times which McGing can't give. Good on him strapping up and getting back out there. Dangerous tackle - looked like it would have hurt - lucky to escape without a serious knee injury - if he has. Would have bet decent money on a tear. Best of the back 4.
Mc Ging - the workload and Wellington's threat looked too much for him. His body shape is still poor at times, heading has been good this season but tonight Welly dominated us aerially. You can't put a weak LB next to him. Too inexperienced and makes bad decisions and gets himself into knots. Posc is not perfect but still a good way ahead of him imo and a better/faster pairing for Faty.
Galloway - already sorely missed.
Neil - better midfielder that he is an FB, and he shouldn't be starting in the HAL as a midfielder...no point ripping into him...he's a converted LM and just looks below HAL standard. Not sure an out of position Posc wouldn't do better there till Galloway returns. Neil links ok in attack but will continue to cost us goals - which has to stop.
Taveres - looked like he saved his legs for the second half, we need this player to lead, when he takes a back seat we become gormless. Rose for Powell helped balance our intended possession game it I thought.
Monty - busted a gut - few technical errors, but you can't ask for too much more from him. Every player gives his effort today and it's a different game.
Fab - some good moments, but his final ball both passing and shooting is costing us - we need better quality from him in the front third or imo Trent is looking the better option. Trent's pace is always a threat, he consistently finds space and he does the simple things well and effectively - like a good final ball.
Pain - worked hard and had some good moments, but was too often isolated and shut down. That f**king Tratt guy had a good game. Pain needs his LB, Powell and or Roy to get closer to him.
Powell - such a "solid' player and in some ways his best game so far - or at least he appeared more involved - but still not enough and I think the biggest issue with him in this position is he is not a specialist at a through ball with god feet like say Finkler or Carrusca etc. Nor is his major strength holding up the ball to bring others into the play - Like McBreen and Matty S did for us when being deployed here. I'm still unsure... unrealistic to think yo can stick him here and that it's not going to need time - but at PRESENT, we need more.
Roy - always works hard, though less so in the heat by his lofty standards. He is crying out for consistent intelligent service since the day he joined. Was let down by his wingers and CAM in that regard today. Trent and him seem the best pairing service wise. Pain will get better I'm sure.
Rose - I'm not sure will imprint himself on the game like we need yet, and I fear a straight swap with Powell would be gaining one thing but losing another.
Trent - as said

Good post

It also leaves you typically out numbered in the midfield and forces you to play direct. Arnie had the right cattle for his narrow diamond.
Patrick was key, such a good distributor and defender that our wingbacks were truly given license to run riot. And ball playing players like weemac and Olly who are vey good at keeping the ball. And Sterj was ever reliable and a great hold up man, Matty Ryans distribution etc...

But I don't think that squad was as well suited for a 4231 and personally, I don't think our current squad is ideal either - but worse with a 442.
DM is our most well filled spot. We lack the control at the back. No true ten. But Powell would be better suited up there with Roy i think.I think

And... it's not Paolo's philosophy. Problem is he still needs a minimum of 3 more class players to truly be able to do what he wants I suspect. But we'll see. Today was a blip on the graph. But you get those. And overall we're still tracking in an upwards trend.

Big blip.!!

 

[Forum Phoenix]

So an unfit winger has been our best player this season.
Our movement off the ball was disgraceful in this game and as usual the back 4 were very poor. The central midfield was sub par as well.
At least Paul acknowledged we were shit for a change.
I can't do player reviews because it is too negative while we play this poorly.
3pts Izzo
2pts Paddy
1pt. Pain
The only amusing moment was when they showed the table after the game on the big screen. Adelaide are bottom and someone yelled out..." oh good, someone is more shit than us!"
Gallows humour but it did lighten a dark mood.

I think that's a great summary by Paolo. I do think the movement was our biggest issue after defending.
So that gives some confidence. We lapsed backwards today, but we will get lapses, whereas last two years that kind of performance was the norm.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Good post
Big blip.!!

Yeah.

 

[Wombat]

I think on current form Trent should start over Fab.
Powell has been ok and I don't think Rose would be any better in that position. I would be interested to know if Bingham could fill that role.
The back four is a massive worry.
roux will improve after he gets the bollocking he deserves.
Faty was ok but flawed.
Hopefully posco can come in for McGing.
If Galloway is injured McDonald should start over Neil.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yeah that's how I see it too.
Bingham can hold up the ball and would give us some desperate aerial presence...
but seems pretty unlikely.

 

[Wombat]

It also leaves you typically out numbered in the midfield and forces you to play direct. Arnie had the right cattle for his narrow diamond.
Patrick was key, such a good distributor and defender that our wingbacks were truly given license to run riot. And ball playing players like weemac and Olly who are vey good at keeping the ball. And Sterj was ever reliable and a great hold up man, Matty Ryans distribution etc...

But I don't think that squad was as well suited for a 4231 and personally, I don't think our current squad is ideal either - but worse with a 442.
DM is our most well filled spot. We lack the control at the back. No true ten. But Powell would be better suited up there with Roy i think.

And... it's not Paolo's philosophy. Problem is he still needs a minimum of 3 more class players to truly be able to do what he wants I suspect. But we'll see. Today was a blip on the graph. But you get those. And overall we're still tracking on an upwards trend I'd say.

Playing two DM leads to laziness and lack of movement. It also stifles attack and I find both DM tend sit back on set pieces rather than being aggressive and looking to pounce on the lose.
Maybe it's the poor coaching we have been used to over the last few years?

 

[pjennings]

I think on current form Trent should start over Fab.
Powell has been ok and I don't think Rose would be any better in that position. I would be interested to know if Bingham could fill that role.
The back four is a massive worry.
roux will improve after he gets the bollocking he deserves.
Faty was ok but flawed.
Hopefully posco can come in for McGing.
If Galloway is injured McDonald should start over Neil.

Basically agree with everything there except I thought Tavares looked better when he could work with Liam and as a result we seemed to look a bit better. Also in McGing's defence when he seemed to slip when 'outpaced' by Krishna he was actually about to clear the ball when he received a fairly heavy fend by Krishna that sat him on his ass. Hard to see from most angles and no official had a clear view of it. That said, he should not be, and is not a first choice CB.

 

[VicMariner]

Krishna is not always so good, but today was one of his "on" days.

I'd be happy to have him here....

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Agree, but we need a finkler type more

 

[Gratis]

Some excellent posts folks I find myself agreeing strongly with everything said

In a nutshell:
- Okon is a good coach and doing what he can with what he has. We are at least progressing but our 'off' days show us up for our lack of quality compared to other teams. Look at wellingtons 'depleted' team sheet ffs.
- as priority, to move forward with any real strength, the defence is weak and at a minimum we need to recruit quality CBs and FBs (plural because we need backup). With a sound defence Okon could start coaching a system he likes.
- of we're also going to continue with the 4231 we will urgently need a number 10 as well

This whole set up makes me nervous because Powell and Roy are quality and they are both totally wasted atm, one out of position and one getting zero service/support. I'd hate to lose them through dissatisfaction

 

[BrisRecky]

well, what a rotten day out....the parking nazi dumped us a half mile from our seats, the windy conditions made the Nix fans homesick, our second half was the drizzling shits and if Cantberra think their gonna get a team with that turnout, their f**ked in the head..., next Cantberra game need moving back to BT, f**k the nations capitol, that is all...gonna go watch UFC 205