R12 away v Nix

[Forum Phoenix]

Bloody excellent start like last week game changes when we get a player sent off. If we don’t have the players sent off I personally don’t think we lose either game. It totally changes everything. Trying to stay positive sick and tired of all the negative shit. The last 2 weeks we have showed potential in the first half.

This for me.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

This is not on Mulvey. Silly to say so.

Ok Gus, you disagree...

Three questions.

Were we any good first half?

Was the moment that undeniably changed the game and ended it for us Rowles getting himself sent?

Is mulvey responsible for the first or second of the above?

I’m not happy, but mulvey isn’t responsible for Rowles or Mellings stupid bloody tackles.

Clear improvements in last two games. Weemac dropped, Hiareij in... very good starts... horrible results, but pretty clearly making progress.

We did not lose that game because he didn’t immediately shift to a 441.

We lost it because Rowles just failed to get Krishna caught offside, then tried but couldn’t recover and stupidly fouled and got himself sent.

I’m happy to call out our dire lack lustre football of many earlier games, but this was not that.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Mulvey is the coach. He is always responsible.
That doesn't mean individuals within the team aren't also responsible - but ultimately MM is still answerable for this.
The goals we gave away were just more of the same. In 2 games we've given away 3 penalties for last-ditch challenges - 2 of them from the same player - what is happening there? What's being coached around it?
The disciplinary problems are now starting to come through - How is MM handling this off the field?
Marking....the 3rd goal was the same rubbish that most of our goals the last few seasons have been. Not marking, letting the attacker get a free run to the goal. Mulvey is responsible until this is no longer a major part of our game.
And our heads go down the moment anything happens against us because of the season we've had. Honestly, we could be 4-0 up - but if the other team scores a single goal, we'll lose it 5-4. The discipline and the immediate giving up when they score are understandable, but it doesn't excuse the season.
The results haven't earned MM the credibility to say 'this one wasn't my fault'.

We were good the first half...but we were starting to lose it. It's almost like we're afraid of our own leads these days - but again, that's confidence, because the team expects to lose the lead.

Simon, of course, shares responsibility - it's tough leading a team away from their first preference of giving up once a goal is scored, but that's his job. The first half was decent, but the 2nd was still pretty dire.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I’ve coached my share of football and the reason we lost that game had nothing to do with coaching Gus.

A player has to make judgment calls on last ditch tackles. It’s not easy. A fraction of a second between hero and zero. The fact those two tackles came up short is simply not on Mulvey.

Truth is with a striker as fast as Krishna you better be awake. Krishna got it right. Rowles got it wrong. That’s all there was to it.

Coaches are not responsible for every decision of every player or every facet of every game.

I’ve slammed MM over our poor movement and many other things... but this was not on him.

 

[Woollybutt]

This is not on Mulvey. He didn’t fall to pieces, Silly to say so imo.

It was a joke referring to the fact that whenever we start well (and we did) the opposition invariably responds to what we're doing and negates it, while we seem unable to respond in-game in any substantial way. Wellington made changes during the first half to get on top for the last fifteen minutes or so, and we didn't adapt. We needed to change how we were playing to regain control of midfield. We didn't, and the game changing penalty and red card came as a result of our inability to react to the game in front of us. We then didn't react to being a man down until it was too late. Obviously we started well, which is precisely why I said Mulvey does fine with a week to prepare but falls to pieces when he needs to respond in-game. To lose one lead may be regarded as misfortune; to lose six in thirteen games looks like carelessness. That's not down to players losing their heads, that's tactical naivety and poor game management for which the buck stops with the manager.

 

[Big Al]

It was a joke referring to the fact that whenever we start well (and we did) the opposition invariably responds to what we're doing and negates it, while we seem unable to respond in-game in any substantial way. Wellington made changes during the first half to get on top for the last fifteen minutes or so, and we didn't adapt. We needed to change how we were playing to regain control of midfield. We didn't, and the game changing penalty and red card came as a result of our inability to react to the game in front of us. We then didn't react to being a man down until it was too late. Obviously we started well, which is precisely why I said Mulvey does fine with a week to prepare but falls to pieces when he needs to respond in-game. To lose one lead may be regarded as misfortune; to lose six in thirteen games looks like carelessness. That's not down to players losing their heads, that's tactical naivety and poor game management for which the buck stops with the manager.

Team did the same under Okon. Lost alot of 1-0 leads early in the season before losing all confidence and then ended at 8-2.

 

[turbo]

I think we’ve found the right setup and need to persist with it now with the odd player swap based on form, suspension and injuries. The Nix were always going to be a tough ask for our backline with Krishna’s pace and our lack of it. Funnily enough if you told me 3-2 pre game I’d have thought that was optimistic but it still hurts for it to go that way.

For the first time I feel like a win might be right around the corner and city or roar are good chances to grab it. I’ve been firmly in the MM out camp but want to see where we go in the rest of Jan.

The changes for Wednesday will be interesting - does MM drop Tom or Melling? Play Hoole or Murray? Who slots in for Rowles - Clisby or Golec?

 

[Youngy]

I’ve coached my share of football and the reason we lost that game had nothing to do with coaching Gus.

A player has to make judgment calls on last ditch tackles. It’s not easy. A fraction of a second between hero and zero. The fact those two tackles came up short is simply not on Mulvey.

Truth is with a striker as fast as Krishna you better be awake. Krishna got it right. Rowles got it wrong. That’s all there was to it.

Coaches are not responsible for every decision of every player or every facet of every game.

I’ve slammed MM over our poor movement and many other things... but this was not on him.

Did you get your coaching qualifications out of a Cornflakes packet or was it a two for one deal when Mulvey bought his.
In a salary cap league you cannot have 10 losses in 11.
He had a full preseason and signed and got all his players. He insisted on trialling 150 players. He signed his coaching staff and two have moved on already.
Basket case coach, club should do due diligence and re-evaluate now. It is not hard to go watch training and interview a few players,support staff etc.
Worst performance by any coach in A league history. But hey its not his fault that players argue on the field (see Hoole and melling)
You should see what happens at training.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

OK as usual I find it easier to think after a cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down. I really should not post on match day.

The team is definitely starting to look like a team at last and as I said elsewhere we are starting to see our best available on the park. It is a shame it has taken all season.

Last week we looked acceptable and gave SFC a bit of a fright. This week we looked good and were really dominating. In both games we cut our own throats by stupidity. Real coach killing events both times.

Some good things to take away from last night's game:

We did not fold totally after the send off. We were a shambles for a while but kept trying and almost salvaged a point. Maybe that is the difference between SFC and the Nux, but an improvement.

I think the back 3 will be the formation we will play from here on in. If we keep changing the formation we look a mess.

On the players:

Kennedy: not much to say except I thought he stayed stuck on his line a bit to much and punted when he could have caught. Went the right way for both pens but just not strong enough to stop them.

Rowles: Dumb, dumb, dumb. Extra laps for the next 2 weeks. Hopefully he will never make that mistake again.
Aspro: Good to see him get 90 mins in. Still a long recovery ahead.
McGing: Did some good things.

Millar: He must get signed for the future immediately.
Pain: He is actually improving every game. As a wing back he is defending a hell of a lot better than he ever did as a winger. At last he could have found his true calling.
These two once again were our best on park and fill positions that are notoriously difficult for clubs to fill. The Club will have major difficulties hanging on to the both. I am sure other A-League managers are already at their doors. Sign them both immediately with allowance for both to move o'seas in the future.

Hiariej: Great to see him back. He ran the show from midfield with superb vision and created the speed of passing in transfer that has been missing all season. A fair way to go to reach full match fitness, but whaat a difference he made.
Melling: Did some good things in the first half and proved a good balance with Tommy, but soon reverted to form. Maybe with lots of practice he can develop into a good DM, but at the moment is lacking too many skills and can be a liability too often.

Oar: Did some good work but was gone after 30 minutes. Needs to keep starting to get match fit, he has some class and ability.
Hoole: He scored a goal, but almost butchered it. Without the deflection off the keeper the defender would have cleared off the line. Apart from that he did not have a clue. Obviously Mulvey watches him at training and not on the park. He started well by passing the ball each time he received it but soon reverted to going in circles.
Simon: Had another good match by trying but very rarely has much end product whether in terms of finishing, holding up the ball or laying it off. Just on the park to lead.

Shabow: not much time to do much.
Clisby: Has actually gone backwards this season.
Murray: He has shown enough to me to say that he is the first true striker the club has had since O'donovan left. He has the skills and has the instincts. He must start in future and get some match fitness into his legs.

Overall the team started to gel and in the first half showed a massive improvement over what was a good start against Sydney. I would truly like to see if the team can actually really win a game and finish without committing suicide.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Did you get your coaching qualifications out of a Cornflakes packet or was it a two for one deal when Mulvey bought his.
In a salary cap league you cannot have 10 losses in 11.
He had a full preseason and signed and got all his players. He insisted on trialling 150 players. He signed his coaching staff and two have moved on already.
Basket case coach, club should do due diligence and re-evaluate now. It is not hard to go watch training and interview a few players,support staff etc.
Worst performance by any coach in A league history. But hey its not his fault that players argue on the field (see Hoole and melling)
You should see what happens at training.

I think you will find if you read some other threads that FP is no fan of Mulvey and will agree with most of your above points.
You set up a lot of straw men that FP was not defending
Two weeks in a row the team was going well until brain snaps by central defenders blew it. Those snaps are not directly down to the coach.

My advice to you is to do a bit more reading here and try not to personally attack one of the more respected posters on this forum.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

And if Cisse has not left town yet, maybe he could save the seat on the bus next to him for Hoole.

 

[BrisRecky]

Well, we extended our “pretty good” play to nearly a whole half this game, then The RudeBoys figured us out and that was that , the red and TWO fkn pelantys didn’t help any althoug( I’m still not convinced Melling was worthy of a dot shot , it’s getting to the point that you can’t touch a bloke anymore I mean FFS it’s a contact sport ..mind you young Kye’s was defo a red
I’m also not convinced that J Muzz goal was offside ! If it was there was millimeters in it ...fkn VAR....I was Mid BBQ !why did Tommy get subbed ?
Aspro done good , Clisby didn’t , Tommy O is getting better , Melling must of lost a bet ( or converted to Islam) Millar was immense AGAIN, Captain Coastie done good too ...but , like someone said, it’s looks like we expect to lose and try to then achieve that result
So, MULVEY show me some other manager that’s lost 11 on the trot and still has a job ...I can’t think of one EVER

 

[Ozhammer]

Had to sleep on this one before posting, as there were a lot of emotions to deal with post game.

Many will know from my previous posts that I will call things how I see them and when I know something is wrong I have posted what I can to let others in on that. Whilst I understand the angst about the team’s fortunes under our current coach, I continue to have some sympathy for his position and am prepared to give him until the end of the season to show what he can do with our team. Many will rightly say that our season is already over and in terms of finals football, that is probably true bar a miraculous turnaround in our on-field fortunes but there is more at stake within the club than that right now.

The revolving door that has become our coaching situation needs to stabilise, or we can never truly move forward. MC needs to not only invest in the playing roster but also in the whole football department off the field. Our resources in this area are behind every other HAL team and that is doing nothing to help improve results. Hopefully Phelan has made this clear to MC and some improvements will occur if his recent letter is to be believed. Without change in this area, the club will continue to be set up for failure regardless of whoever is the head coach.

Reflecting on last night’s game, I saw a lot of positives in all honesty and that is what MM will need to focus on, whilst laying the deficiencies bare, so that they can be worked on. That we pretty much dominated one of the form teams of the comp for 45 minutes was no mean feat (and I am cognisant of the fact that they had played only a few days before) but once again, individual mistakes have cost the team dearly. All any coach can do in that situation is make sure that those particular players understand how and why those mistakes occurred and how to avoid them happening in the future and there is no benefit in tearing them a new one. We need to remember that Rowles is a young player with good potential, who will need to learn from his own mistakes. Bringing Clisby on for someone (Hoole imo) should have happened within a couple of minutes of Rowles being marched, meaning that Melling was not asked to fill in at LCB for more than the absolute minimum, so that is on the coaching staff but having given away a penalty last week for something very similar he should have known better than to do what he did yesterday. All the coach can do in this situation is to explain his error (should that be needed) and never put him in that position again. By all means bench him if deemed necessary but Melling has never professed to be a defender and certainly not a left-sided one and part of the reason he causes the penalty to be awarded is because he tries to tackle Krishna with his right foot.

The fundamental issue with regard to why the team is travelling poorly remains the general lack of quality in the side. Yes MM made much of that recruitment but this was done on the limited budget available to him and when any player is bought in that comes with a little bit of a gamble, so some will pay off whilst others won’t. It is understandable that fans are frustrated at the lack of transfer movement given our current fortunes but selling the club to prospective players must be a very hard task these days.

I myself have queried a number of team selections made by MM this season but we can’t even collectively agree on the ideal line up between us fans, plus we don’t have the benefit of seeing who is training well every week. Notwithstanding that Rowles is suspended for the next game, I would say replace Melling with O’Neil and Hoole with Murray and that would be pretty much our strongest possible line up from the current roster imo. It was good to see MM play Oar inside Pain, as I think that worked well until Oar started to puff. Pain was immense last night and the only thing missing from his performance was the goal he arguably deserved.

I believe that MM has his shape finally sorted and now needs to allow his best players to play in their positions consistently, so as to build the necessary resilience during matches. We are unlikely to ever be able to match the quality of some other teams but with application and effort, we should be able to compete effectively and I for one, am not prepared to give up on the team yet.

EDIT: forgot to add that Hoole should never, ever, be allowed near a dead ball again. Better still, leave him on the bench, or in the stands. Even his goal was a scuff last night, which Doyle would have easily cleared had Kurto not got a finger on it.

 

[Big Al]

Some good things to take away from last night's game:
We did not fold totally after the send off. We were a shambles for a while but kept trying and almost salvaged a point. Maybe that is the difference between SFC and the Nux, but an improvement.

Exactly the same as SFC. 15-20 capitulation. At least at Sydney we survived till halftime. This time the red started it. Totally unacceptable how they go to water under pressure and Mulveys reaction or lack of is also ridiculously stupid.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

It was a joke referring to the fact that whenever we start well (and we did) the opposition invariably responds to what we're doing and negates it, while we seem unable to respond in-game in any substantial way. Wellington made changes during the first half to get on top for the last fifteen minutes or so, and we didn't adapt. We needed to change how we were playing to regain control of midfield. We didn't, and the game changing penalty and red card came as a result of our inability to react to the game in front of us. We then didn't react to being a man down until it was too late. Obviously we started well, which is precisely why I said Mulvey does fine with a week to prepare but falls to pieces when he needs to respond in-game. To lose one lead may be regarded as misfortune; to lose six in thirteen games looks like carelessness. That's not down to players losing their heads, that's tactical naivety and poor game management for which the buck stops with the manager.

Disagree. But like this post woollybutt.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Did you get your coaching qualifications out of a Cornflakes packet or was it a two for one deal when Mulvey bought his.
In a salary cap league you cannot have 10 losses in 11.
He had a full preseason and signed and got all his players. He insisted on trialling 150 players. He signed his coaching staff and two have moved on already.
Basket case coach, club should do due diligence and re-evaluate now. It is not hard to go watch training and interview a few players,support staff etc.
Worst performance by any coach in A league history. But hey its not his fault that players argue on the field (see Hoole and melling)
You should see what happens at training.

Two for one deal. But it was coco pops.

Plenty of things I hold Mulvey accountable for. But Rowles tackle is not one.

What’s happening at training?

 

[Wombat]

Did you get your coaching qualifications out of a Cornflakes packet or was it a two for one deal when Mulvey bought his.
In a salary cap league you cannot have 10 losses in 11.
He had a full preseason and signed and got all his players. He insisted on trialling 150 players. He signed his coaching staff and two have moved on already.
Basket case coach, club should do due diligence and re-evaluate now. It is not hard to go watch training and interview a few players,support staff etc.
Worst performance by any coach in A league history. But hey its not his fault that players argue on the field (see Hoole and melling)
You should see what happens at training.

What is happening at training?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

As much as it sucks, a low confidence side falling apart when they go down a man is unfortunately to be expected.

Beyond Millar there has been nothing but negatives to take away for a long time. But there were several genuine positives in that game. Tom H a big one of them. But also Oar, Aspro and of course Millar, Pain, and I think Murray. Oh and Matty was playing well too.

Holding a lead with ten men is just a bridge too far for this side at present. And Krishna is s bloody handful.

To be clear. I’m not interested in arguing with those focusing on our negatives. There’s a huge bunch of real issues/concerns still, it’s just several weren’t anywhere near as present in that game.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Had to sleep on this one before posting, as there were a lot of emotions to deal with post game.

Many will know from my previous posts that I will call things how I see them and when I know something is wrong I have posted what I can to let others in on that. Whilst I understand the angst about the team’s fortunes under our current coach, I continue to have some sympathy for his position and am prepared to give him until the end of the season to show what he can do with our team. Many will rightly say that our season is already over and in terms of finals football and that is probably true bar a miraculous turnaround in our on-field fortunes but there is more at stake within the club than that right now.

The revolving door that has become our coaching situation needs to stabilise, or we can never truly move forward. MC needs to not only invest in the playing roster but also in the whole football department off the field. Our resources in this area are behind every other HAL team and that is doing nothing to help improve results. Hopefully Phelan has made this clear to MC and some improvements will occur if his recent letter is to be believed. Without change in this area, the club will continue to be set up for failure regardless of whoever is the head coach.

Reflecting on last night’s game, I saw a lot of positives in all honesty and that is what MM will need to focus on, whilst laying the deficiencies bare, so that they can be worked on. That we pretty much dominated one of the form teams of the comp for 45 minutes was no mean feat (and I am cognisant of the fact that they had played only a few days before) but once again, individual mistakes have cost the team dearly. All any coach can do in that situation is make sure that those particular players understand how and why those mistakes occurred and how to avoid them happening in the future and there is no benefit in tearing them a new one. We need to remember that Rowles is a young player with good potential, who will need to learn from his own mistakes. Bringing Clisby on for someone (Hoole imo) should have happened within a couple of minutes of Rowles being marched, meaning that Melling was not asked to fill in at LCB for more than the absolute minimum, so that is on the coaching staff but having given away a penalty last week for something very similar he should have known better than to do what he did yesterday. All the coach can do in this situation is to explain his error (should that be needed) and never put him in that position again. By all means bench him if deemed necessary but Melling has never professed to be a defender and certainly not a left-sided one and part of the reason he causes the penalty to be awarded is because he tries to tackle Krishna with his right foot.

The fundamental issue with regard to why the team is travelling poorly remains the general lack of quality in the side. Yes MM made much of that recruitment but this was done on the limited budget available to him and when any player is bought that comes with a little bit of a gamble, so some will pay off whilst others won’t. It is understandable that fans are frustrated at the lack of transfer movement given our current fortunes but selling the club to prospective players must be a very hard task these days.

I myself have queried a number of team selections made by MM this season but we can’t even collectively agree on the ideal line up between us fans, plus we don’t have the benefit of seeing who is training well every week. Notwithstanding that Rowles is suspended for the next game, I would say replace Melling with O’Neil and Hoole with Murray and that would be pretty much our strongest possible line up from the current roster imo. It was good to see MM play Oar inside Pain, as I think that worked well until Oar started to puff. Pain was immense last night and the only thing missing from his performance was the goal he arguably deserved.

I believe that MM has his shape finally sorted and now needs to allow his best players to play in their positions consistently, so as to build the necessary resilience during matches. We are unlikely to ever be able to match the quality of some other teams but with application and effort, we should be able to compete effectively and I for one, am not prepared to give up on the team yet.

EDIT: forgot to add that Hoole should never, ever, be allowed near a dead ball again. Better still, leave him on the bench, or in the stands. Even his goal was a scuff last night, which Doyle would have easily cleared had Kurto not got a finger on it.

Just read this.

Really high quality post OH.

Agree with all of your reasoning.

If the club wants to do something to cheer us up, announce Millars 3 year deal now,

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

I’ve coached my share of football and the reason we lost that game had nothing to do with coaching Gus.

A player has to make judgment calls on last ditch tackles. It’s not easy. A fraction of a second between hero and zero. The fact those two tackles came up short is simply not on Mulvey.

Truth is with a striker as fast as Krishna you better be awake. Krishna got it right. Rowles got it wrong. That’s all there was to it.

Coaches are not responsible for every decision of every player or every facet of every game.

I’ve slammed MM over our poor movement and many other things... but this was not on him.

I think you're giving MM a big benefit of the doubt. And that's fine, you can do that - and you're posting plenty of reasoning in your posts, civil debate and all that

We haven't put in more than 45 minutes all season. Now, sure, we can say that the only reason our 2nd half was ordinary was because of those individual errors - but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the 2nd half wouldn't have been ordinary without those. All the evidence this season suggests it probably would have been - heck, WP were starting to get on top of us late in the 1st half and dominating possession.

We could say that our 2nd half dropped off because we were down to 10 men for a lot of the game...maybe that's true, maybe it's not. Plenty of teams don't lose when they lose players because everybody else lifts. I suppose I'm taking the 'glass half empty' view and not seeing any evidence that we would have been any different.

Sure, our first half was good. We've had good halves and lost it later in the game before this season. The first half looked like our structure might be starting to work - but for me, MM just doesn't have the credibility for me to say 'oh all right, I can imagine that you got this one right' when losing the 2nd half is what we've done every game that started well, red card or not.

Still, despite all that, I feel like Wednesday is when our pain will be eased - though I really, really, really hope that Cisse is on a club suspension.
If nothing else, hopefully on the bench and only to come on because we need a defensive switch.

I don't know what MM needs to do about Melling - a DM needs to be able to slot into the back line a lot better than he is. Clisby gave away a few penalties early in the season, but he seems to have corrected those concentration lapses now.

Murray's in a good spot, working well with Simon.

MM needs to have a plan for when Tom H isn't on the field. I don't think parking the bus is the right option for us - our defence and goalkeeper are too inconsistent and we give away too many free kicks in and around the box.

It's a test for Mulvey and Simon. I really believe we can beat City. One isn't enough because confidence will still be shaky - beat City, then we can beat Roar. 2 in a row and the players will start to have confidence again.

In fact, assuming Roar lose against MV, 2 in a row puts us just 1 point behind them. 1 win away from 8th is WSW lose against AUFC (they shouldn't....and I know, at this point I'm starting to look at mathematical possibilities....)

If we hit form late in the season and MC opens his wallet further, then we increase our marketability significantly. If we can then pick up one or two top-tier players without losing much of our current core, then we suddenly have a lot more depth in our squad.

It's great the difference Tom H makes, but also worrying. Last season, we didn't look like winning whenever Tom wasn't on the field.