Merged Thread - Danny Vukovic Red Card (outcome page 42)

[~Floss~]

Good points by Bex above, and I think some of Cap's as well, eg. I agree with this:

IMO they all deserve red cards, because IMO if you contact - or attempt to contact - the ref in any aggressive/intimidatory manner, you should be sent.

You're right that these incidents aren't exactly 'violent', yet they're forced to come under 'violent conduct'; IMO there needs to be an 8th red card offence, specifically for these sort of incidents.....

... but this seems a bit harsh to apply every time someone touches a ref:

I don't really have a problem with mandating a minimum 12 months for these offences, but then again I might be a little biased being a referee myself.  The main thing I want is integrity and consistency - that's a massive part of justice. 

I agree it (intimidation of refs) is unacceptable and it's getting out of control. But 12mths compulsory ban is way too harsh. If it was applied in EPL, for example, there would be 3-4 12mth bans from the first match. I've noticed Aussie commentators make note (since the Vukovic incident) during overseas matches, when players crowd the ref and appeal, invariably someone grabs the refs arm, especilly if the ref is trying to ignore them and walk away. Aussie commentators are quick to throw in a remark like "he'll have to watch himself, he could be in all sorts of trouble if he keeps that up."

12mths minimum is a fair recommendation for anything that is undeniable, classic, violent striking: punching, kicking, headbutting, pushing, etc. That's unquestionable. It's even fair for full-on threatening or intimidating a ref. But life's not black & white and there will be borderline cases and incidents that are open to interpretation. They should each be dealt with by a fair and just process, on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Ursus]

How far does he have to offend before the suspended part of the sentence kicks in:

Yellow card,
Red card,
Violent conduct,

???

 

[Don]

what great news,im so pleased for danny hell be able to go on holidays feeling a bit more relaxed.
I'm sure the fine will be worked out some how and if everyone decides to put in you have my support.

 

[skilbeck]

it is still a timely ban. there is nothing in the regulations that say how much of the ban can be suspended.

 

[skilbeck]

Sheffield To Steel Vukovic

EXCLUSIVE: Olyroo keeper Danny Vukovic may train with Sheffield United during his ban to stay match fit said Mariners CEO Lyall Gorman, who described the last few months as a rollercoaster.
Gorman spoke with Vukovic just moments after the decision was handed down.

Danny just rang me from Hayman Island, I think it was, Gorman told au.fourfourtwo.com shortly after the decision was handed down.

"Hes up there with his girl. Theres a mixture of emotions for him. Its exhilarating but also overwhelming.

He may find a quiet place for a quiet drink, but you have to remember, theres still a pretty hefty ban in place. Hes banned till October 6 which is seven A-League matches.

He cant wait to get back and re-establish his place.

Vukovic has been granted a reprieve and allowed to play in the Olympics after a U-turn by the FFA's appeals committee on his original 15 month ban.

The independent panel upheld his ban - but gave him a break from it over the Olympics to allow him to go to Beijing 2008.

A statement from the FFA confirmed: "The effect of the Appeals Committee decision means that Vukovic will not be eligible to play in the Hyundai A-League competition again until 6 October 2008, but he is eligible for selection to the Australian Olympic team.

"The Appeals Committee decided that Vukovic be suspended from all games up to 24 June 2008 and from all games from 29 August 5 October 2008 inclusive.

"The Appeals Committee also decided that Vukovic should not play in any games from 6 October 2008 25 January 2009 inclusive, with the latter penalty to be suspended subject to no further infringement in the period up to, and including 25 January 2009.

"The Appeals Committee also fined Vukovic $10,000 to be paid to the FFA.

The Mariners are now working on ways to keep their star keeper match fit.

Well have to talk with Graham Arnold and find out if hes allowed to train with the Olyroos. Were not sure," added Gorman.

One option could be to send him to Sheffield United to train and keep match fit."

The Mariners currently have a strategic alliance with the Yorkshire club.

Gorman added that a back up keeper at Bluetongue is being looked at but said hed meet with coach Lawrie McKinna in the next few days to discuss that option.

But right now, Gorman is just happy there is a verdict.

This whole thing has been draining. Its been an emotional rollercoaster," he said.

"But my view is that todays outcome has been a cleanser. Its positive. But weve got to move on.

The Mariners commence training for the new A-League season on Monday.

Have YOUR say - What do you think about "Sheffield To Steel Vukovic"? Tell us NOW in the comment section below

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/74597,sheffield-to-steel-vukovic.aspx

lets hope the likes of beattie and co can fire some real ones at him in training to keep him in shape and form

 

[thomas477]

FFA Press Release: Kids go out and hit refs, you'll still be able to go to the olympics

 

[marinermick]

FFA Press Release: Kids go out and hit refs, you'll still be able to go to the olympics

and win johnny warren medals

 

[Bear]

FFA Press Release: Kids go out and hit refs, you'll still be able to go to the olympics

and win johnny warren medals

and play with the assistants penis and ball sack, without his approval, and its all ok.

You, of all people thomas, should stear well clear of commenting on this

 

[thomas477]

Mate in danny's last olympic game he had a shocker.

Also danny might not go to the olympics

 

[marinermick]

Mate in danny's last olympic game he had a shocker.

Also danny might not go to the olympics

how so? they won and qualified

 

[Pokes]

FFA Press Release: Kids go out and hit refs, you'll still be able to go to the olympics

and win johnny warren medals

Haha.

Zing!

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

... but this seems a bit harsh to apply every time someone touches a ref:

I'm not suggesting a RC everytime somebody touches a ref; merely everytime somebody touches a ref in an aggressive/intimidatory fashion.  If you poke the ref, or bump him while/after arguing, then you're trying to intimidate him, and this should be a RC.

I'm not talking about every player who puts an arm on the ref's shoulder saying 'come on mate, let's not be too harsh here....'

I agree it (intimidation of refs) is unacceptable and it's getting out of control. But 12mths compulsory ban is way too harsh. If it was applied in EPL, for example, there would be 3-4 12mth bans from the first match. I've noticed Aussie commentators make note (since the Vukovic incident) during overseas matches, when players crowd the ref and appeal, invariably someone grabs the refs arm, especilly if the ref is trying to ignore them and walk away. Aussie commentators are quick to throw in a remark like "he'll have to watch himself, he could be in all sorts of trouble if he keeps that up."

12mths minimum is a fair recommendation for anything that is undeniable, classic, violent striking: punching, kicking, headbutting, pushing, etc. That's unquestionable. It's even fair for full-on threatening or intimidating a ref. But life's not black & white and there will be borderline cases and incidents that are open to interpretation. They should each be dealt with by a fair and just process, on a case-by-case basis.

Yeah, but why do you think this behaviour occurs so much in the EPL?  Only because it's let go - if referees started sending players off for it, the behaviour would stop.

The referees and the FA are the ones that draw the line in the sand - the players will keep stepping up to that line no matter where it's drawn.

If referees and the FA decide it's ok to punch a ref, next week 10 players will punch a ref.  If they decide that anybody who comes with 5 yards of the ref to argue will get booked, next week we'll see a crowd of players arguing with the ref....from 5 yards away

As for whether or not a 12 month minimum sentence is too harsh, I'm undecided.  I think that something more aggressive, such as pushing a ref should cop longer, so from that I don't really have a problem with a 12 month minimum suspension.

It's kind of funny discussing this issue on this forum, and a ref's forum - naturally the referees are all saying that it's too lenient (some even say it should be a lifetime ban).  The funny thing is that I think the referees on there have just as much cause to be biased in this incident as the mariners supporters on here

One concern raised on that forum though, is will local judicial committees use this as a precedent for striking incidents at local level?  One would hope not (you really can't use anything that happens in a professional game as precedent for an amateur one), but judicial committees are usually so biased in favour of the players that it wouldn't be surprising if some did take it into consideration...

I would love to know what the justification for the reduced sentence is - because it smacks of weakness.  Is it made with the consideration of the other assaults in mind?

 

[finally retired]

I would love to know what the justification for the reduced sentence is - because it smacks of weakness.  Is it made with the consideration of the other assaults in mind?

it's effectively only a 6 week reduction in sentence.  the original sentence ruled him out of A-League matches until Nov 24.  This "reduced" sentence rules him out until October 6......but has added a $10,000 fine.  Whilst I'm ecstatic for Danny (and for the Olyroos), it seems the FFA want their cake and to it it as well.....they wanted to penalise the player for "striking" the ref (which is correct) but didn't want to hurt Australia's chances at the Olympics.....that's the weakness.  Imagine if this had happened first game of the season or even pre-season....would we all be so happy then ?
I'm all for protecting the refs.....(I've always coached the kids to accept whatever decision the ref gives).....but the FFA needs to have better refs and a fairer and much more open judicial system, and to use video evidence if it's available.....but that evidence can cut two ways both in penalising as well as defending a player.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

I agree completely - the 'weakness' I was referring to was breaking the suspension for the Olympics.

IMO, if you're suspended, you don't play.

Still, as fortunate as we are the he only misses 8 matches, don't forget that it can only take a couple of conceded goals (to take a win to a draw, or a draw to a loss, in a couple of matches) to significantly alter our finals berth, or even knock us out of the race altogether.

 

[Auburn Mariner]

1. This is good news for Danny for Beijing. I am thrilled that he will get to play for our beloved country in the second biggest footy tournament in the world.

2. Those of us in the Home End will have to make the place Matthew Trott's house. No questions asked, and NON-NEGOTIABLE. Hot to Trott, Hot to Trott!!!

3. Danny is very lucky, thankfully.

4. Joel Griffiths, clearly the best player in V3, should be buying lottery tickets for the rest of his life.

5. The FFA needs to look at its tribunal system, along with how the Independent Panel works. A clearly stupid, reckless and careless act by our Danny has dragged on for way too long. And whilst the result is great for Vuko, have any of you ever heard of a suspension quite like this?

6. Jaza's point about using this as a precedent is, unfortunately, completely valid. The next time something like this happens, Pandora' Box is as open as the space between Lindsay Lohan & Britney Spears' ears!!

7. All of us (Danny, the club, us as fans) have been on a massive emotional rollercoaster from and including the Grand Final. Time to focus on our games in May & June, the Australia-China game at Stadium Australia on June 22 (which may possibly include some home brew at our place - stay tuned) and V4.

8. Anyone that heard Lyall on Fox Sports News last night will realise how good a Chairman we actually have.

I wish you all a good Anzac Day. Lest we forget.

Regards,

AM

 

[Jesus]

I think that this is the suspension that should have been handed down originally. Though i would not have complained if Danny was to have recieved another 2 or 3 matches in his suspension.

 

[finally retired]

whilst only a "rumor" on that illustrious website 4-4-2, there's an article about us doing a "swap" with Sheffield Utd for Paddy Kenny and Danny until Danny's suspension is up.  I guess we just have to wait for Lyall to deny it all 

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/74653,alliance-to-work-both-ways.aspx
Alliance to work both ways
The Mariners are poised to swap Danny Vukovic for Sheffield United's Paddy Kenny following the news on Vukovic's ban. The Mariners and The Blades formed an alliance earlier this year, and this will be the first test of it's usefulness. With Vukovic unable to play for the Mariners until October, Vukovic will be loaned to the Blades and Kenny will be loaned to the Mariners until that time. Once Vukovic's ban is ended, the Mariners and the Blades will then decide whether the loan should continue or not.
The loan is designed to keep Vukovic match fit and he will leave for the UK on his return from holidaying on Hayman Island.
Lyall Gorman was instrumental in getting the alliance in place and was also instrumental in pushing for a fair hearing on Vukovic's sentence to keep his Olyroos dream alive. This loan deal, to be announced over the weekend, will demonstrate Gorman's business acumen.

 

[Bear]

Paddy is the 1st choice keeper at Sheffield, cant see it happening, but GOD id love it to happen, he is 1st class

 

[FFC Mariner]

Hope to God that Trott is not the option we take.

This is football and it matters - trying hard and willing to have a go are not enough.

 

[northernspirit]

i agree with u greenpole, we need someone who will instil confidence in the defenders in front of him, whenever there is a cross or corner trott fails to get to the ball leaving himself in no mans land and we cant afford to leak goals so easily... paddy kenny would be superb, but as mentioned earlier cant see it happening, he is 1st choice keeper and did really well in the f.a cup this year, not sure about the championship as i havent really watched much of it this yr