Let danny townsend know he is a stooge

[Big Al]

I have it on good authority that KGJ was screaming at Evans that it was a penalty so VAR definitely was doing its job.

If that’s the case why go back to the ref. The VAR can make that decision without going back

 

[turbo]

nd that still seems to be the case now. Evans knew he could make these decisions and screw us over and nothing would happen to him

We've had a very public admission he got it wrong, now we need to let the process happen and see what conclusion FA reaches. For now the best course of action is to stand him down while the process plays out. Sacking would be satisfying but they've still got employment law to deal with and it may be cleaner and cheaper to stand him down indefinitely and not renew his position. Make him the 4th official if they want to get some return on his wages.

 

[turbo]

The VAR can make that decision without going back

No I dont believe that's he case. The on field ref has final say. They dont look at offside because it's black and white but any subjective calls come back to the ref on field. Perhaps in the case of some absolute stinkers like Evan's second call in particular the VAR should be able to call on the 4th official to be the tiebreaker.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

No I dont believe that's he case. The on field ref has final say. They dont look at offside because it's black and white but any subjective calls come back to the ref on field.

Correct.

VAR isn't supposed to be making recommendations on a decision either, unless the ref specifically asks for it. They make a recommendation for on-field review, but that's why they always phrase it like 'recommend an on-field review for a potential handball against one of the yellow teams, doesn't matter which, we hate yellow teams'

 

[turbo]

Correct.

VAR isn't supposed to be making recommendations on a decision either, unless the ref specifically asks for it. They make a recommendation for on-field review, but that's why they always phrase it like 'recommend an on-field review for a potential handball against one of the yellow teams, doesn't matter which, we hate yellow teams'

What do you think about the last sentence I edited in as a safeguard? Shouldn't happen often but might be a nice safety net to have if a ref goes totally rogue.

 

[Ironbark]

I want compensation. Our season is directly impacted by this. Points please.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

What do you think about the last sentence I edited in as a safeguard? Shouldn't happen often but might be a nice safety net to have if a ref goes totally rogue.

Well, problem is, the on-field review is also supposed to be a bit of a safety net - but how often have we seen the ref agree with VAR when VAR is blatantly wrong?

The ref can have the advantage of having experienced an angle that VAR hasn't (especially when in our league, there might only be a single camera capturing an incident).

I don't think you can make rules for every incident. Give VAR the authority to have final say, and you'll introduce incidents where referee correctly doesn't go by a VAR decision, and is overruled.

There have only been a handful of times when the ref has not gone with the VAR - and most of the time, that's been the correct decision by the ref (or at least it's kind of debateable). The bigger problem is the ref not overruling VAR when they should.

 

[Man Overboard]

Years ago, back when I was in the coast, they introduced this in the Central Coast because apparently all the teams wanted it. I think after a month, only 4 teams had submitted one...

They actually do this in England, but it introduces its own problem.

First and obvious one is that people who know nothing about refereeing and the laws are assessing others on the laws and refereeing - you end up with a common problem where referees get marked badly because it's the manager who doesn't understand the laws. How many players out there are still adamant that you can't say 'mine', or that you can't 'play the ball from the ground'? there are plenty of decisions which people aren't necessarily going to understand... Why was this apparent push in the back penalised but not that one (eg the difference between when a player is standing still or not)? What about that shirt pull where the referee was the only person on the field who spotted it because everybody else is watching the ball? So on and so forth....

So, aside from that, it also leads to the situation where referees learn to referee to what decisions are easier to accept by managers, rather than having the courage to referee what's correct.

And that's the culture of refereeing over there - which, again, is partly why I think big club bias is such a thing there (which is why I think Jared will do well there). The easy decision takes precedence over the correct one. Heck, sometimes you get a situation where both teams are calling for the same decision, and both teams are dead wrong. The problem with the manager grading system, is that it encourages the referees to go with the wrong, but easier to accept, decision.

Having said that, I was a committee member with the referees a long, long time ago. While the usual 'this ref was shit rah rah rah' complaints were pretty much ignored, occasionally we'd hear a piece of feedback that would suggest a ref might, say, not know the laws (not just 'he thought I handled it when I didn't' but 'awarded an indirect free kick for handling' or something like that - actual law knowledge, or something else of concern. Feedback is good because then, if it was a first year, we could send a mentor out - or for a more senior one, we could consider whether they're overdue for an assessment.

So, there can be some benefit in manager feedback - if there are consistently good or poor reports, then maybe we need to look at them, but it can be problematic too.

In saying that, I believe that in England, it actually has some weighting in determining promotions. Perhaps the better approach would be to have it, but not use it for promotions.

Having said that, it was always acknowledged as a problem that the referees association was largely operating blind with the conduct of its referees. Everyone would be assessed twice a year (I think 3 times for first grade), but 2 single games isn't much - and we all know some refs are completely different when they know they're being assessed. Aside from that, you're running off word of mouth - the grapevine, what you hear from when referees work together as ref/AR.

I think it was the team captains that judged the performance, but I can see what you are getting at with biased managers jumping up and down. Also cricket umpires focus their attention where the action is [down the wicket] where decisions are to be made-no balls, lbw, caught behind, and move square to judge runouts. In contrast football has all players from both teams all over the pitch and refs cant see everywhere I suppose.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

yeah....and I figure cricket, the rules are probably going to be simpler, although I daresay there are a lot of times when one team strongly, but incorrectly , disagrees about a decision!

Football, not only are the laws a lot more complicated but the application is highly nuanced, which players and team officials aren't going to be across.

Not to say there isn't some value in it though....consistently bad reports would be more than just about the referee have to make some nuanced decisions that players usually wouldn't understand....though as I mentioned before, I've spent a lot of time in UK refereeing forums and they seem to put a lot of effort into refereeing in a manner which is easy to accept by the teams.

I've always believed that a referee needs to have the courage to make the right decision - even if everybody disagrees, even if that decision is a surprise - if they know it's the right call and has to be made, they need to give it. From what I gather, that's kind of discouraged in the UK because of the team ratings.

I kind of think it can be useful as long as it doesn't directly influence grading/promotion. But, it was tried on the Coast years ago and no teams submitted their feedback. though I don't know what the process was then - now it's something you'd incorporate online

 

[Insertnamehere]

A friend used to umpire A grade cricket in Sydney and mentioned that at the end of each game the umpires performance was graded by both sides. The better umpires were recognised as unbiased and knowledgeable, and were promoted to higher quality games. Perhaps such a system could apply to football referees. It seems to be a closed shop with a limited number of officials whose ability is often questionable. There should be progression and demotion. On the VAR, I thought it was for clear and obvious errors. If so, then it shouldn't take so long to review a decision- it should be very clear and obvious if there was an error on the tape-scrolling back and forth looking for a second contact that may/not be there and with the limited number of views provided by Paramount cameras is just not good enough.

Happens in brisbane grade too. Silent vote.

 

[Tevor]

We've had a very public admission he got it wrong, now we need to let the process happen and see what conclusion FA reaches. For now the best course of action is to stand him down while the process plays out. Sacking would be satisfying but they've still got employment law to deal with and it may be cleaner and cheaper to stand him down indefinitely and not renew his position. Make him the 4th official if they want to get some return on his wages.

You are more patient than me, given the errors were confirmed the next day I don't see why this has to take any longer. I get the feeling this is a who has the biggest d*&k moment between the APL and FA. I'm sure FA are making it perfectly clear the APL can do nothing to their officials. If anything this whole issue has brought this situation to a head, I now personally think the APL needs to be employing the officials that officiate their product and not a third party.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Correct me if I'm wrong but EPL refs are employed by the FA not the league itself
The division of responsibilities is not the issues, the competence of the individuals is.
Let's face it, Evans isn't a dick, both those calls are overturned and there is no problem
Don't let that c**t off the hook.

 

[Tevor]

Correct me if I'm wrong but EPL refs are employed by the FA not the league itself
The division of responsibilities is not the issues, the competence of the individuals is.
Let's face it, Evans isn't a dick, both those calls are overturned and there is no problem
Don't let that c**t off the hook.

So if there is no obvious hold up on decision making it is pretty clear Evans has got off lightly. It isn't us who are letting him off, just goes to show what a scam the APL is and when it was created with all the "we will improve the league", "we control our on destiny" it was all just BS. FA might as well still be running the comp because nothing has improved in fact is pretty clear it is going backwards.

 

[turbo]

Let's face it, Evans isn't a dick, both those calls are overturned and there is no problem
Don't let that c**t off the hook.

He would have gotten away with it if it was just the first. It was the utterly blatant disregard of the obvious in the second that tied the noose.

I don't see why this has to take any longer. I get the feeling this is a who has the biggest d*&k moment between the APL and FA

investigations take time and due process has to be followed unless you want to run into problems. Not giving him games is a course of action, it’s not dramatic but it’s still valid and keeps him away. Other refs will notice especially if he isn’t re-appointed.

 

[style_cafe]

This is an instance where the there is no independent body that can review the case.
The only way to do a review is to have a representative from the Refereeing body (ie.the referees reviewer who is at the game.) someone from the APL, someone from the players Union and a rep from each club.
Have a neutral chairman/ mediator who runs the panel but doesn`t vote.
Do a total review of the incidents from video, audio from the VAR ,referees and sideline mics.

The chairman/mediator then writes the review for the APL to take mandatory action.
All to be finalised before the referee takes the field again....

 

[Forum Phoenix]

. oh ... and will it also include 'seeking answers' as to how PK can repeatedly and incessantly instruct the referee on his decision (clearly audible on the broadcast) without sanction but our guys get punished for honesty

100 percent. Coaches fight for their teams, but he knew what he was doing, and that it was wrong, he couldn't stop smiling. His bullying was also a disgrace. But on this, it's also on the APL for being stupid enough to allow the positioning of the VAR to be right by the coaches and not have a protocol in place.

Though I would have hated to have never had... "Look at this! Looky, looky, looky..."

 

[Corsair]

The guy is a cheat and that's it. Sack him.

 

[Wombat]

100 percent. Coaches fight for their teams, but he knew what he was doing, and that it was wrong, he couldn't stop smiling. His bullying was also a disgrace. But on this, it's also on the APL for being stupid enough to allow the positioning of the VAR to be right by the coaches and not have a protocol in place.

Though I would have hated to have never had... "Look at this! Looky, looky, looky..."

I expected Patrick to run over and slip him an envelope or even put a knife point to the back of his neck......"we own you bitch....you know what to do!"
Im not suggesting City and Evans are blatantly corrupt....but Kisnorbo's hectoring of Evans had a certain jailhouse ring to it.

 

[shipwreck]

Here is a crazy idea, put the VAR review kit on the other side of the field.... Away from the coaches

 

[bikinigirl]

Here is a crazy idea, put the VAR review kit on the other side of the field.... Away from the coaches

. still a better idea to just allow the video ref to decide and remove the on-field review. taking on board what the Cap'n said he should be able to explain to the VAR what he thought he saw before a decision is made

. it would also be worthwhile having someone like an ex-player in the 'box' within him to whack him with the common-sense/bullshit stick for any over analysis of stills or taking too long