Round 20 - Adelaide v CCM @ Coopers

[Insertnamehere]

I'm not in the Okon out camp yet but I would suggest he dumps Jolic for a far better Football brain. Someone like Ian Crook would good.

Agree, dunno about crook tho. But a soft general needs a ball kicker lieutenant.
Okons obviously a players coach, gently gently type. So he needs a firm off sider to say what needs to be said.

 

[BrisRecky]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not a big fan of sacking managers when it’s obvious the players have switched off halfway through a game week after week, but a goodly % of this current torrent of shite has to laid squarely at Okon and Jolie’s feet, but if they won’t entertain a change in direction then f**k em ...see ya

 

[Gratis]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not a big fan of sacking managers when it’s obvious the players have switched off halfway through a game week after week, but a goodly % of this current torrent of shite has to laid squarely at Okon and Jolie’s feet, but if they won’t entertain a change in direction then f**k em ...see ya

It's been a reluctant turn for me but I think I'm finally there. If the tool you're using isn't working because it's not quite right for the job you don't just put one hand over your eyes and hack at it even harder. The fans - the rusted on fans no less - are despondant, and it is clear to all and sundry that the plan is to simply keep hacking until the job is a total fking mess. Not good enough and it'll ruin our club. OUR club. We were here well before the coach and will be long after he's gone.
This isn't managing. It's sticking doggedly to a plan that isn't working. If we don't have the players for this style (and let's face it even the national team doesn't) then why persevere? Because it's your philosophy? Doesn't cut it. If Okon can now show me signs he is adjusting or adapting I'll give him more time. If he can't do even that much it's game over. Time to read the Art of War already.

 

[bikinigirl]

Agree, dunno about crook tho. But a soft general needs a ball kicker lieutenant.
Okons obviously a players coach, gently gently type. So he needs a firm off sider to say what needs to be said.

. i'm not sure where that thinking comes from - from what i understand* he is quite 'distant' with the players, low levels of engagement, minimal one-on-one feedback

* grapevine murmurings, rather than first hand experience obviously

 

[Insertnamehere]

. i'm not sure where that thinking comes from - from what i understand* he is quite 'distant' with the players, low levels of engagement, minimal one-on-one feedback
* grapevine murmurings, rather than first hand experience obviously

Firsthand we saw him put horses on and sing with the boys after our last win, kinda says to me personal engagement with the players.
However if what you're saying is true, there is a problem with that. Bigger than being a players coach soft touch type.

 

[Ozhammer]

I have to say that I have personally been reluctant to advocate for another coach change, after having done so with both Moss and Walmsley, primarily due to the upheaval that brings with it but I now see no other option.

Here are a few things for those that are still on the fence to ponder.

There is a drinking culture at play with a part of the playing group that Okon has utterly failed to deal with despite knowing about it and in one case, it may allegedly be even more serious than that. How can those players possibly deliver their best for the team and us as fans?

Neither he or Jolic allegedly make any effort to develop or even relate to any of the players outside of the starting group of 11-14 and they are simply left to sit on the fringes until they find a better offer like Ascroft. Even a talent like DDS has arguably gone backwards under our current coach, which should never have been allowed to happen.

He allegedly will not follow the recommendations of his strength and conditioning coach and then wonders why the team can’t remain focused and competitive in games like last night. For example he and Jolic are understood to have flatly refused to allow double training seasons in pre-season, as many other HAL clubs were doing, thus meaning the team were behind the curve from the outset. Apparently this was due to him being concerned about overloading the players hmmm.

By firstly dumping Hutch (without even actually speaking to him) and then sidelining Monty, he removed the last of the real Mariners’ cultural reference points, with the result being the team capitulating more often than showing the sort of spirit our teams of old possessed in spades.

When we are at the wrong end of the table, with our finals hopes hanging by a thread, he gives the players three days off, despite having only recently bemoaned the lack of time to work on the tactical aspect of games. If the team were second from top of the league not second from bottom, I think we could all accept them being given the reward of an extended break but that is not the case is it? When things aren’t going well, I always thought that was when it was time to work even harder to produce an upturn but I might have got that wrong it seems.

His tactical inflexibility and/or naivety has been there for all to see week in week out. Whilst the players must accept some of the responsibility for the team’s collective failures in certain areas, in many cases, their perceived lack of cohesion/ability is a direct result of their instructions from the coach.

For all of the above reasons and a whole lot more besides, I am sorry to say that the Okon experiment is a failure in my opinion.

I know that some folks will defend him for various reasons but the stark reality is that he simply isn’t up to scratch and to be frank, SFC are welcome to him.

The fans’ patience is all but used up and there clearly needs to be a fundamental shift in the way the team is managed going forward. Perhaps it is time to ask someone who truly knows what it means to be a Mariner to take the reins? If so, I would suggest that someone like Monty and/or even Hutch should be approached, as surely there would be no doubt about the reinstatement of our cultural values should that come to pass.

Note to Shaun & MC, there can be no more false dawns or moneyball gambles. The very fabric and future of this proud club is at the edge of the abyss and you need to take drastic steps to address that, or all will be lost. If that sounds dramatic, then it is but the situation facing us is dire and decisive action is needed. There is no more latitude, you have no more collateral to burn. Now is the time to show that you know how much we are all hurting and bloody well do something about it that will inspire us fans to believe that better days are truly ahead, not paper over the cracks with mealy mouthed political spin and mistruths. You have reached the bottom of the pit and we are now all looking to you to show us the way to climb out of it.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Great post.

 

[midfielder]

When Postco left last night the defence fall apart with Rose [senior] and Storm as the outside backs.

DDS, Hoole were nowhere to be seen holding the centre of the park...

Beyond disappointed ...

 

[MagpieMariner]

Seems strange to me that we see McGing getting an extension (deserved I think for the hard work he has obviously put in), but not the slightest murmur about an extension for the coach. Maybe this is the cause of his apparent lack of passion lately?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Agree, dunno about crook tho. But a soft general needs a ball kicker lieutenant.
Okons obviously a players coach, gently gently type. So he needs a firm off sider to say what needs to be said.

I actually don’t think he is. I think he’s pretty hard. keeps most players at distance Just maybe the odd player he connects with / likes it looks to me.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

. i'm not sure where that thinking comes from - from what i understand* he is quite 'distant' with the players, low levels of engagement, minimal one-on-one feedback

* grapevine murmurings, rather than first hand experience obviously

Posted before I read this.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Seems strange to me that we see McGing getting an extension (deserved I think for the hard work he has obviously put in), but not the slightest murmur about an extension for the coach. Maybe this is the cause of his apparent lack of passion lately?

Shaun said on the pod they were deep into discussions but they all decided focusing on the games at hand was what mattered most.

It was another very unsatisfying answer for me.

 

[Ozhammer]

When Postco left last night the defence fall apart with Rose [senior] and Storm as the outside backs.

I reiterate my earlier post, why would you reshuffle your entire defence due to a single substitution?

I would love to read the chapter in the coaching manual that recommends that approach. No feckin wonder our defence went to shite as a result, go figure.

 

[Ozhammer]

Shaun said on the pod they were deep into discussions but they all decided focusing on the games at hand was what mattered most.

It was another very unsatisfying answer for me.

Shaun has had to morph into a political animal due to the shite going on around him and I do feel sorry for him about that.

 

[Wombat]

Shaun said on the pod they were deep into discussions but they all decided focusing on the games at hand was what mattered most.

It was another very unsatisfying answer for me.

Shaun has had to morph into a political animal due to the shite going on around him and I do feel sorry for him about that.

The focus hasn't been very good has it! I'd suggest what ever is going on behind the scenes is hurting us atm.

 

[Wombat]

I reiterate my earlier post, why would you reshuffle your entire defence due to a single substitution?

I would love to read the chapter in the coaching manual that recommends that approach. No feckin wonder our defence went to shite as a result, go figure.

Thats harsh. We dont have another CB. McGing is a liability there but after Rosebuds woeful previous effort what else was he to do.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Posted before I read this.

I dunno how most of the underage roos speak so highly then. Most being the operative word. Not that they won under him though.
If he is a standoffish type that speaks to the problem of them not playing his way.

 

[Wombat]

I have to say that I have personally been reluctant to advocate for another coach change, after having done so with both Moss and Walmsley, primarily due to the upheaval that brings with it but I now see no other option.

Here are a few things for those that are still on the fence to ponder.

There is a drinking culture at play with a part of the playing group that Okon has utterly failed to deal with despite knowing about it and in one case, it may allegedly be even more serious than that. How can those players possibly deliver their best for the team and us as fans?

Neither he or Jolic allegedly make any effort to develop or even relate to any of the players outside of the starting group of 11-14 and they are simply left to sit on the fringes until they find a better offer like Ascroft. Even a talent like DDS has arguably gone backwards under our current coach, which should never have been allowed to happen.

He allegedly will not follow the recommendations of his strength and conditioning coach and then wonders why the team can’t remain focused and competitive in games like last night. For example he and Jolic are understood to have flatly refused to allow double training seasons in pre-season, as many other HAL clubs were doing, thus meaning the team were behind the curve from the outset. Apparently this was due to him being concerned about overloading the players hmmm.

By firstly dumping Hutch (without even actually speaking to him) and then sidelining Monty, he removed the last of the real Mariners’ cultural reference points, with the result being the team capitulating more often than showing the sort of spirit our teams of old possessed in spades.

When we are at the wrong end of the table, with our finals hopes hanging by a thread, he gives the players three days off, despite having only recently bemoaned the lack of time to work on the tactical aspect of games. If the team were second from top of the league not second from bottom, I think we could all accept them being given the reward of an extended break but that is not the case is it? When things aren’t going well, I always thought that was when it was time to work even harder to produce an upturn but I might have got that wrong it seems.

His tactical inflexibility and/or naivety has been there for all to see week in week out. Whilst the players must accept some of the responsibility for the team’s collective failures in certain areas, in many cases, their perceived lack of cohesion/ability is a direct result of their instructions from the coach.

For all of the above reasons and a whole lot more besides, I am sorry to say that the Okon experiment is a failure in my opinion.

I know that some folks will defend him for various reasons but the stark reality is that he simply isn’t up to scratch and to be frank, SFC are welcome to him.

The fans’ patience is all but used up and there clearly needs to be a fundamental shift in the way the team is managed going forward. Perhaps it is time to ask someone who truly knows what it means to be a Mariner to take the reins? If so, I would suggest that someone like Monty and/or even Hutch should be approached, as surely there would be no doubt about the reinstatement of our cultural values should that come to pass.

Note to Shaun & MC, there can be no more false dawns or moneyball gambles. The very fabric and future of this proud club is at the edge of the abyss and you need to take drastic steps to address that, or all will be lost. If that sounds dramatic, then it is but the situation facing us is dire and decisive action is needed. There is no more latitude, you have no more collateral to burn. Now is the time to show that you know how much we are all hurting and bloody well do something about it that will inspire us fans to believe that better days are truly ahead, not paper over the cracks with mealy mouthed political spin and mistruths. You have reached the bottom of the pit and we are now all looking to you to show us the way to climb out of it.

Very well written and some very salient points but I have felt that you have an axe to grind against Okon for some time. You have been death riding him for a while..............not sure what the history is but i feel its only fair to point out your prejudice.

 

[Ozhammer]

Very well written and some very salient points but I have felt that you have an axe to grind against Okon for some time. You have been death riding him for a while..............not sure what the history is but i feel its only fair to point out your prejudice.

No prejudice at all on my part and I would personally prefer we didn’t have to change coaches again but the behind the scenes issue are not imagined or fabricated I’m afraid.

I have nothing against Okon per se but he has been on watch for the last bit of the dismantling our supposed culture, so he does need to be held accountable for his part in that.

He is also responsible for what goes on behind the scenes regardless of the financial constraints he is operating within, so my intentions were only to open people’s eyes to that.

 

[Big Al]

Like you’re inside my head.

I’m still struggling to pull the pin on the grenade only because from what we saw I’m sure with proper spend / right players his system will work. But no back up plan has proven its weakness.

But what’s also tipping me over is that his passion has clearly gone right when we needed it most.

I loved his earlier intensity and fire but now it’s gone. And in my books when the chips are down is when you have to fight hardest. And at the very least go down fighting and win as much respect as you can.

Okon has gone into his shell. And when it comes to that I don’t care about any other issues you face, there’s no excuse, because how much you give is still in your own power. And he’s morphed into a very different presence as a coach.

I’m now thinking the incredible loss of energy we saw at home recently must have at least in part been informed by his clear emotional change. Not like players don’t pick up on that stuff and are affected. Especially young players. Like say the prodigy 10 you convinced to come here.

Resigned and despondent does not impress me in a coach and is a recipe for disaster. But I have no idea where his fight has gone, and that’s on him.

Maybe it was a covert offer he’s already had from down the road. Maybe it was the VAR, maybe it was the lack of expenditure. But even all of the above is not an acceptable excuse.

We needed to win ten times more than AU and had every chance but we were completely out passioned on field, but off field even more so.

Roy O Donavan last year
Paul this year
Anyone else notice the similarities