Western Sydney going ahead in 2013 (p2)

[sally]

“ The community will have a say in the culture, colours, name and logo of the new entity and we will explore a model that would allow for community ownership".

How about "The Westies" with a checked flanno strip?

 

[pjennings]

Yes, I assume so on what I have read! But I am on drugs.....

Recognising you have a problem is a good first step

 

[Forum Phoenix]

So in theory someone could be on $150,000 in the cap + $5,000,000 3rd Party Payments?

Maybe Central Coast Mariners FC could pay minimum wage and Central Coast Mariners Developments could bump that up? Seems a bit of a rort?

Definitely how I interpreted Fold Coast's first season of acquisitions.

 

[dibo]

They're capped too under the salary cap. Only 25 per cent or so can be added on in third party dollars.

 

[adz]

They're capped too under the salary cap. Only 25 per cent or so can be added on in third party dollars.

Seems like the most reasonable thing I guess, although why have a salary cap and then extras on top?

Would be nice if there was some sort of rule book available that set all this stuff out, but I don't think one exists.

 

[MrCelery]

“ The community will have a say in the culture, colours, name and logo of the new entity and we will explore a model that would allow for community ownership".

How about "The Westies" with a checked flanno strip?

I think the last flanno moved to Newcastle a few years back. Isn't the hijab the fashion out west these days?

 

[dibo]

Seems like the most reasonable thing I guess, although why have a salary cap and then extras on top?

Would be nice if there was some sort of rule book available that set all this stuff out, but I don't think one exists.

Ask and yet shall receive: http://www.pfa.net.au/fileadmin/user_upload/_temp_/PFA_-_Summary_A-League_CBA_09_Updated.pdf

 

[Nathan Byrn]

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/mariners-not-afraid-of-fight-for-top-talent-20120405-1wfeb.html

 

[Nathan Byrn]

Ask and yet shall receive: http://www.pfa.net.au/fileadmin/user_upload/_temp_/PFA_-_Summary_A-League_CBA_09_Updated.pdf

That appears to be an older document. ASA's are different and are now called 3p aggreements. It will change in the coming months, with discussion re local players,NYL and under age players etc

 

[marinermick]

Spoke to Tony Walmsley and he believes a western Sydney team will greatly impact on the Mariners' recruitment.

A team out there is a must but to think it won't impact on our club is naive.

We are only talking about a small percentage of elite players that go on to National Youth League and an even smaller percentage of these who go on to professional football.

Could potentially cost the Mariners hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost transfer fees and for a club that is currently relying on player sales for survival this could be a massive blow.

 

[dibo]

That appears to be an older document. ASA's are different and are now called 3p aggreements. It will change in the coming months, with discussion re local players,NYL and under age players etc

It refers to a collective bargaining agreement in force from 2008 to 2013 - this agreement is still in place, whether they refer to 3rd party (i.e. non-club sourced) payments as 3p or ASA is irrelevant. The numbers may vary somewhat, but this agreement still stands and that is the document from the PFA's own website.

Spoke to Tony Walmsley and he believes a western Sydney team will greatly impact on the Mariners' recruitment.

A team out there is a must but to think it won't impact on our club is naive.

We are only talking about a small percentage of elite players that go on to National Youth League and an even smaller percentage of these who go on to professional football.

Could potentially cost the Mariners hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost transfer fees and for a club that is currently relying on player sales for survival this could be a massive blow.

If every talented kid from Western Sydney goes to Unicorns or even has Unicorns as their first choice, you'd be right. But either of these is a huge assumption that simply ignore limited squad sizes, salary caps and the like. We've already been drawing from there with SFC down the road.

By your logic and Nathan's, the mere presence of Sydney FC should have meant that we would be second choice at all times, but the reality is that the source has been feeding two clubs.

Now it will feed three. So for every three talented kids we've picked up and sold off we could still expect to see two. Affected? Sure. Catastrophically? Hardly.

Getting our eyes up to the horizon, don't forget that having a WS club increases the value of the league - doubling exposure in the most important media market in the country makes the entire league worth more.

Looking ahead to the next Fox deal - the increase should more than outweigh the loss of 1/3 of the transfer fees from the sale of WS sourced youth.

So then if these Russians *are* coming, with the COE opening for business in August 2013, plus the timing of the new Fox deal, we aren't going to be living hand to mouth as we have done. The notion that Unicorns will 'greatly impact' us seems to me to be a weak argument.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

check out the third document in my original post.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

It refers to a collective bargaining agreement in force from 2008 to 2013 - this agreement is still in place, whether they refer to 3rd party (i.e. non-club sourced) payments as 3p or ASA is irrelevant. The numbers may vary somewhat, but this agreement still stands and that is the document from the PFA's own website.




If every talented kid from Western Sydney goes to Unicorns or even has Unicorns as their first choice, you'd be right. But either of these is a huge assumption that simply ignore limited squad sizes, salary caps and the like. We've already been drawing from there with SFC down the road.

By your logic and Nathan's, the mere presence of Sydney FC should have meant that we would be second choice at all times, but the reality is that the source has been feeding two clubs.

Now it will feed three. So for every three talented kids we've picked up and sold off we could still expect to see two. Affected? Sure. Catastrophically? Hardly.

Getting our eyes up to the horizon, don't forget that having a WS club increases the value of the league - doubling exposure in the most important media market in the country makes the entire league worth more.

Looking ahead to the next Fox deal - the increase should more than outweigh the loss of 1/3 of the transfer fees from the sale of WS sourced youth.

So then if these Russians *are* coming, with the COE opening for business in August 2013, plus the timing of the new Fox deal, we aren't going to be living hand to mouth as we have done. The notion that Unicorns will 'greatly impact' us seems to me to be a weak argument.

It is not Mick and my opinion it is the ooinion of the Mariners and the various journo's that are publishing articles about it. Can we AFFORD to compete for players? Todays SMH link above for example outlines potential problems and indicates how valuable Western Sydney has been to the CCM.

 

[marinermick]

Flawed logic Dibo.

We were never competing with Sydney FC directly because their recruitment and development out west has been weak. Now we will be competing to grab players who will grow up watching the new team and their first choice will be with the club they love.

Even missing out on one potential star could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. If we are to be a feeder club that on-sells players one non-deal has the potential to bankrupt the club

As Nathan has stated the club is very concerned.

 

[MrCelery]

From a lifestyle point of view, why would you prefer playing for Western Sydney over Central Coast?

Family, childhood club loyalty or not, I'd be busting my gut to get out of the slums and move to the beach.

As long as we continue to be a sold Club that punches above it's weight we should do OK.

 

[marinermick]

From a lifestyle point of view, why would you prefer playing for Western Sydney over Central Coast?

Family, childhood club loyalty or not, I'd be busting my gut to get out of the slums and move to the beach.

For a young boy staying with family who do everything for them living on the Coast is not preferred.

Musti, Bernie, Oates, Duke, Carceras and Matty Ryan all prefer to live at home over the beach and commute two hours everyday day to go up and back.

They would probably prefer not to commute.

Though Oates does live near the water on the Northern Beaches.

 

[pjennings]

It really doesn't matter what we, the press or the coaches think. The competition is changing and the Mariners will have to live with the altered reality. It won't be the end of the world but it will definitely have a impact. How large an impact really depends on how the Mariners respond to the new challenges.

 

[elevated position]

Musti, Bernie, Oates, Duke, Carceras and Matty Ryan all prefer to live at home .

Maybe thats a generational thing as kids never want to leave home while mummy's wiping their nose.
Which makes me think how Musty will fair over in Germany.

 

[elevated position]

I for one am excited by having 3 teams within driving distance (except newcastle is on my barred list)
Also think of the savings that OUR club will make because the "tenth club" is a bus ride both ways.

The extra exposure that WSFC bring will also encourage more of the lost 14/16 (see NB's post)to stay in the game and open up the market even more.

To encourage players here the club must play them and move on older players who cannot be developed any further i,e (and no disrepect to him) the porters in the team.

And with the local system in place we should be able to unearth some talent. (coaches might hold that up a bit though)

 

[dibo]

It is not Mick and my opinion it is the ooinion of the Mariners and the various journo's that are publishing articles about it. Can we AFFORD to compete for players? Todays SMH link above for example outlines potential problems and indicates how valuable Western Sydney has been to the CCM.

I read the story. Nothing there that isn't obvious, nothing there that is a cause for great concern.

Flawed logic Dibo.

We were never competing with Sydney FC directly because their recruitment and development out west has been weak. Now we will be competing to grab players who will grow up watching the new team and their first choice will be with the club they love.

Even missing out on one potential star could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. If we are to be a feeder club that on-sells players one non-deal has the potential to bankrupt the club

As Nathan has stated the club is very concerned.

*If* we were to live forever hand to mouth, one non-sale would be an issue. But you're looking at it as if today's cashflow issues are to be expected in perpetuity. I don't think there's any reason to expect that, as I said before - Russians, Fox, COE all combine.

And I have to say that saying that the club or journos express concerns doesn't necessarily imply they're right. I might be some no-name fan with no skin in the game, but the fact remains I simply don't buy the arguments, no matter who is apparently running them. So sue me.

I'm finding the apparent determination from some to see only the downside in everything that happens in this league or this club to be extremely tiring. I used to think that SFCU was a chronic whinge-fest, but they've finished in 6th place and gone straight out of the finals and they're much more cheerful in general than this place. We could win the title and it'd still be a f**king funeral on here.