Seeing the back of Charlesworth

[FFC Mariner]

Yeah look I'm angry at the lack of investment and the continuous degradation of our great club.

But I don't blame MC for this. He just didn't have the money, didn't have deep enough pockets to invest further and that's not his fault.

Indeed I'd like to thank him for saving the club when he did and for sinking millions in over the years at no return to himself. He lost millions keeping us afloat.

So thank you, Mike, for all that you could do for us over the years. Genuinely.

I'd like to rename this thread something else, like, The sale of CCM: what does the future hold?

How about -No, the title is fine, he has pretty much killed the club and burnt through its fanbase. He got involved to save his property investment, no more, no less.

 

[marinermick]

Yeah look I'm angry at the lack of investment and the continuous degradation of our great club.

But I don't blame MC for this. He just didn't have the money, didn't have deep enough pockets to invest further and that's not his fault.

Indeed I'd like to thank him for saving the club when he did and for sinking millions in over the years at no return to himself. He lost millions keeping us afloat.

So thank you, Mike, for all that you could do for us over the years. Genuinely.

I'd like to rename this thread something else, like, The sale of CCM: what does the future hold?

i ha

Yeah look I'm angry at the lack of investment and the continuous degradation of our great club.

But I don't blame MC for this. He just didn't have the money, didn't have deep enough pockets to invest further and that's not his fault.

Indeed I'd like to thank him for saving the club when he did and for sinking millions in over the years at no return to himself. He lost millions keeping us afloat.

So thank you, Mike, for all that you could do for us over the years. Genuinely.

I'd like to rename this thread something else, like, The sale of CCM: what does the future hold?

I have different thoughts.

Being a property developer Mike saw the opportunity to take over a distressed business and take over its assets. His whole focus was the CoE and stadium and this took focus off the team.

He gained plenty from the CoE from which he basically picked up for free. The first couple of years he also benefited from some good transfers.

I find it interesting that he chooses to walk now that he has no hopes with the stadium and he has reached his development potential with the CoE.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Is it still the FFA's decision? Aren't we more onto the independent model now?

FFA essentially still in charge till fox deal is over.

 

[jacobsfl]

Yeah look I'm angry at the lack of investment and the continuous degradation of our great club.

But I don't blame MC for this. He just didn't have the money, didn't have deep enough pockets to invest further and that's not his fault.

Indeed I'd like to thank him for saving the club when he did and for sinking millions in over the years at no return to himself. He lost millions keeping us afloat.

So thank you, Mike, for all that you could do for us over the years. Genuinely.

I'd like to rename this thread something else, like, The sale of CCM: what does the future hold?

The title is in no way a stab at MC. I know that we as a fanbase have reasons to dislike the way he operated the club and they're all mostly valid, but I'm of the belief that the council are largely to blame for screwing the club over.

According to my memory there have been several times where the council have rejected MC's advances towards expanding the club (perhaps someone here can elaborate as I can't recall specifics) but as the local council there needs to be some kind of commitment to aiding and abetting the club's growth, and I never saw that from CCC. Too much time has been spent trying to get an NRL team and the council have neglected the Mariners. Watching the club's diminishment has been an incredibly demoralising time for the community and this news was unfortunately to be expected. I am of the belief that, unless proven otherwise, Monday night will be the last we see of our beloved club.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not saying MC isn't to blame here, but there needs to be some accountability held by the council that they are largely to blame for the club's demise. Perhaps some of the local community can provide me with a different point of view as this is coming from someone who no longer lives on the coast. I am really disappointed how the council have treated the club over the past few years and am of the belief that the blame can't be entirely on Charlesworth.

Let's hope for the best, because I am not at all optimistic

 

[FFC Mariner]

It is not the councils job to line the pockets of a private businessman. CCM are not a "community asset" they are a private company Why should my asset (I'm a rate payer) be given away? I think they should sell it but that would require him to invest his own cash and take a commercial risk which he wont do.

 

[marinermick]

It is not the councils job to line the pockets of a private businessman. CCM are not a "community asset" they are a private company Why should my asset (I'm a rate payer) be given away? I think they should sell it but that would require him to invest his own cash and take a commercial risk which he wont do.

this, this and this

 

[turbo]

It is not the councils job to line the pockets of a private businessman. CCM are not a "community asset" they are a private company Why should my asset (I'm a rate payer) be given away? I think they should sell it but that would require him to invest his own cash and take a commercial risk which he wont do.

I was never of the opinion it should be gifted, work out a fair price based on takings over say 3 years and start negotiating around that. I wouldn't be including the anomaly of extra NRL games due to the hub thing as thats unlikely to reoccur here at least. If they can meet or exceed that income and divest themselves of some expenses thats win win. You could argue the council will do this or are going to do that but you'd be having the same conversation a few years later.

In terms of putting it out to tender that might be an option but I also think there's benefits to keeping it locally focused rather than added to a portfolio including stadiums in Sydney. The council should want to bring events to Gosford, a multi stadium manager isnt going to fight to have something at Gosford over Parramatta unless it doesnt make sense down there. It also helps keep the only top flight sporting team the region has and match day income for surrounding businesses. That income can be boosted by offering more promotions to get people in the gate with the club knowing management rights will help absorb some costs of that activity. Again everyone wins.

Now if MC doesnt want it on fair terms that's on him but the current relationship wasnt getting anything done and doing little to increase game day attendees. Ultimately it's driven by performances but if the rights can help with that and the council still get a fair amount there are no losers.

 

[Pirate Pete]

It is not the councils job to line the pockets of a private businessman. CCM are not a "community asset" they are a private company Why should my asset (I'm a rate payer) be given away? I think they should sell it but that would require him to invest his own cash and take a commercial risk which he wont do.

The council put a lot of things out to tender. Who do you think picks up your garbage every week?
A friend of mine used to work at a council child minding centre. When Mckinna was mayor the council got rid of them.
I don't recall any rate payers turning up with their pitchforks to complain about it.
My road was resurfaced a couple of years ago (long story). It wasn't the council that did it.

I don't see anyone on the forum saying the ground should be given away.
It does seem strange to me though that the council have held onto it for so long.
There was an article in the local rag, before it was done away with, saying how much the stadium cost to maintain.
And because it came out of the same budget as for local sports grounds, the local grounds were suffering.
I think it's because it's so big. The child minding business wouldn't even get a mention in the news.
But the stadium would.

I for one do not believe it should be sold. Just put out for tender.

If anything the pitchforks should be out about why the council is still managing the place.
Rather than saying why should my asset be given away, you should be asking why is my asset being run so badly.
Half a dozen NRL games, and what one concert in how many years?
It seems to me the council have no interest in attracting any event to the stadium.
Either that or the people who are managing it are failing getting anything.
Weather permitting it would make a fantastic venue for a concert in the summer.
I realise saying that it would probably piss down.

Lastly just because MC built the COE I wouldn't consider him a property developer.
I've asked before on here what else has he built. I've never received an answer.
Even if I had all his money I don't know if I'd be prepared to throw money at a football club to be honest.

 

[FFC Mariner]

When our crowds were 1/2 decent, no one was demanding a better stadium deal. He underfunded the football team, they have got 4 spoons in 5 years and crowds died.
He then carries on and threatens to move if a better deal cant be done because the revenue has fallen off a cliff.
This was after he tried to suggest that fans need to turn up to support the team then things might get better (doesnt work like that champ) You invest 1st, then customers turn up.
I havent heard anyone, ever, suggest that council do a good job of running the stadium (they dont) but it should go out to proper competitive tender.

 

[Insertnamehere]

I thought the stadium had been put out for management rights tender a while ago?

 

[jacobsfl]

Mariners supporters have a chance to save their club by owning it

Central Coast Mariners have reached a fork in the road as a football club and it's time for their fans to take matters into their own hands and push for a community-based formula if they want their club to stay in the A-League.

theworldgame.sbs.com.au

The numbers are definitely interesting. How many people would actually pay $500-$1000 each season? I know I would if I knew where it was going, but what does everyone else think?

 

[marinermick]

I would but there would have to be guarantees the team stays on the Coast and Money is invested in the football department. There would also have to be board representation equal to the percentage of fan ownership.

 

[pjennings]

When our crowds were 1/2 decent, no one was demanding a better stadium deal. He underfunded the football team, they have got 4 spoons in 5 years and crowds died.
He then carries on and threatens to move if a better deal cant be done because the revenue has fallen off a cliff.
This was after he tried to suggest that fans need to turn up to support the team then things might get better (doesnt work like that champ) You invest 1st, then customers turn up.
I havent heard anyone, ever, suggest that council do a good job of running the stadium (they dont) but it should go out to proper competitive tender.

We have never had good crowds while Council have had control of the stadium. Singo had the rights when we had good crowds. The crowds have trended on a steady decline since season 3.

Council do not manage the Stadium well. No reflection on the staff - the Council just see it as a BAU activity and staff it like that. What the club wanted to do was much more than that.

As for a competitive tender - I agree with that. However, that in itself is problematic. The weighting on the criteria would need to be carefully thought out.

e.g. Do we want a large group that runs a number of stadium to run it. If they do how do we ensure we get events. concerts to the Coast over their other stadiums.

How do you compare running as a BAU activity to the Club's plan.

It is not an easy thing to do - but there has only ever hindrance from the Council - both at the Stadium and Tuggerah (since the merger).

 

[LFCMariners]

We have never had good crowds while Council have had control of the stadium. Singo had the rights when we had good crowds. The crowds have trended on a steady decline since season 3.

Council do not manage the Stadium well. No reflection on the staff - the Council just see it as a BAU activity and staff it like that. What the club wanted to do was much more than that.

As for a competitive tender - I agree with that. However, that in itself is problematic. The weighting on the criteria would need to be carefully thought out.

e.g. Do we want a large group that runs a number of stadium to run it. If they do how do we ensure we get events. concerts to the Coast over their other stadiums.

How do you compare running as a BAU activity to the Club's plan.

It is not an easy thing to do - but there has only ever hindrance from the Council - both at the Stadium and Tuggerah (since the merger).

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here. I'd speculate the decline in crowds post 2007/08 had to do with 3 things:

a) The GFC= less job security and disposable income= less paying spectators
b) The GF screw-over in 2008. CCM earned the right to host the HAL GF but the FFA demanded it be played at the SFS, which was too far for the casual fan who would've gone to the biggest local event in years had it been held in Gosford. This could've spurred them onto return in the seasons to come. That prelim against the Jest in 2008, the stadium was packed, Bay 16 was rocking and 2 people deep. It was amazing, unforgettable night- but that was as good as it ever got...
c) The active support split. It turned the casuals (especially the younger ones) off showing up getting in on the atmosphere. Things have healed over the past few seasons but this correlated with shit results on the field. If we'd been going as well as SFC or MV bar this season, I'd love to have seen what kind of numbers we'd get in the active bay and what sort of match-day experience CCM could offer the casuals?

I mentioned a while back that my family last went to a game on NYE 2018 v Perth and we walked at h/t as did at least half the ground. That for me was the rock bottom moment in this club's existence. Better results on-field would've equalled better crowds and a more appealing event for the casuals...

 

[pjennings]

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here. I'd speculate the decline in crowds post 2007/08 had to do with 3 things:

a) The GFC= less job security and disposable income= less paying spectators
b) The GF screw-over in 2008. CCM earned the right to host the HAL GF but the FFA demanded it be played at the SFS, which was too far for the casual fan who would've gone to the biggest local event in years had it been held in Gosford. This could've spurred them onto return in the seasons to come. That prelim against the Jest in 2008, the stadium was packed, Bay 16 was rocking and 2 people deep. It was amazing, unforgettable night- but that was as good as it ever got...
c) The active support split. It turned the casuals (especially the younger ones) off showing up getting in on the atmosphere. Things have healed over the past few seasons but this correlated with shit results on the field. If we'd been going as well as SFC or MV bar this season, I'd love to have seen what kind of numbers we'd get in the active bay and what sort of match-day experience CCM could offer the casuals?

I mentioned a while back that my family last went to a game on NYE 2018 v Perth and we walked at h/t as did at least half the ground. That for me was the rock bottom moment in this club's existence. Better results on-field would've equalled better crowds and a more appealing event for the casuals...

Maybe - but you can also add.

d) Continuing knock back by Council of management rights so CCMFC have not been able to make the match-day more attractive.
e) Delay of change rooms at CCS that meant no W-League team and susbsequent loss of new engagement with the community.
f) Delay and frustration over a second entrance at Tuggerah that would have meant further investment there and a better engagement with the community. e.g. clubhouse, hotel etc.

 

[jacobsfl]

I mentioned a while back that my family last went to a game on NYE 2018 v Perth and we walked at h/t as did at least half the ground. That for me was the rock bottom moment in this club's existence. Better results on-field would've equalled better crowds and a more appealing event for the casuals...

Wasn't that when the goalpost collapsed?

 

[FFC Mariner]

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation here. I'd speculate the decline in crowds post 2007/08 had to do with 3 things:

a) The GFC= less job security and disposable income= less paying spectators
b) The GF screw-over in 2008. CCM earned the right to host the HAL GF but the FFA demanded it be played at the SFS, which was too far for the casual fan who would've gone to the biggest local event in years had it been held in Gosford. This could've spurred them onto return in the seasons to come. That prelim against the Jest in 2008, the stadium was packed, Bay 16 was rocking and 2 people deep. It was amazing, unforgettable night- but that was as good as it ever got...
c) The active support split. It turned the casuals (especially the younger ones) off showing up getting in on the atmosphere. Things have healed over the past few seasons but this correlated with shit results on the field. If we'd been going as well as SFC or MV bar this season, I'd love to have seen what kind of numbers we'd get in the active bay and what sort of match-day experience CCM could offer the casuals?

I mentioned a while back that my family last went to a game on NYE 2018 v Perth and we walked at h/t as did at least half the ground. That for me was the rock bottom moment in this club's existence. Better results on-field would've equalled better crowds and a more appealing event for the casuals...

I wish that was rock bottom

 

[LFCMariners]

Wasn't that when the goalpost collapsed?

That was the game. The same game where a former player was caught on the mic saying it was "f**king bullshit". A night that once upon a time was our clubs' unofficial "Open Day" where families who didn't normally attend CCM games would come along as a prelude to the fireworks and the team would generally get a win to see off the year.

Instead there were thousands of people across the road in the park and the fireworks display went ahead while the game was still on. I can't think of another match that illustrated just how far the club had fallen from grace...

 

[jacobsfl]

That was the game. The same game where a former player was caught on the mic saying it was "f**king bullshit". A night that once upon a time was our clubs' unofficial "Open Day" where families who didn't normally attend CCM games would come along as a prelude to the fireworks and the team would generally get a win to see off the year.

Instead there were thousands of people across the road in the park and the fireworks display went ahead while the game was still on. I can't think of another match that illustrated just how far the club had fallen from grace...

Couldn't agree more man, I don't blame anyone who left

 

[Insertnamehere]

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