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Round 4 - Victory away

Ozhammer

Well-Known Member
Unless MM (the magic is suspended until he proves worthy of it) and Monty need to stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes, or we are done for.

As much as I like Rowles, he is simply being asked to do something that is just too far out of his comfort zone. He is a CB that could fill in at LB if really needed, so asking him to play at RB simply isn’t fair on him or the team.

Full back is a specialist position in the modern game and you can’t simply put someone there to ‘do a job’. With him playing there, we have no penetration down the right flank and the odd occasions when he does get forward, he is not confident enough on his right foot to even contemplate crossing the ball.

As others have said on this thread already, our opponents have already worked this out and are ready to take full advantage. Just watch yesterday’s game back and see how MVC pulled the players on our right side out of position one after the other and then utilised the space that created.

If the coaching staff are not prepared to give McGing or Millar a shot at RB, then move Tommy there, rather than leave him out of the team altogether. From what I read, he played more than 40 games in that position in Dutchyland, so he must understand the requirements well enough.

To drop Tom for error-prone Melling was a huge mistake imo and as my wife will attest, I called out his appalling passing before kick off, so that was no real surprise (anyone remember the Jest game last season?).

MM needs to sort out horses for courses and stick with a solid basic structure that can be tweaked over time to improve our ability to affect the contest, without leaving things woefully exposed. Shape and structure are so vital to the modern game, that ignoring them can only lead to one outcome.
 

greenlig

Well-Known Member
If I was talking about a video game I might say this is rubbish don't waste your money, or I might say this was a really poor sequel and I hate the direction they went with X. I won't be buying the third game unless they can resolve it and stop the nickel and dime approach to micro-transactions.
Gamers are the very worst consumers. Horrible example!!;)
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
Just watching the replay against Victory.

We did not play better. They did not challege they stood off and waited for the turnover.

Hoole once again tried hard but in vain as there was no finish to what he started. There is just no balance to the side. They all look like they are playing out of position.

The few that went to the away fans after the final whistle is indicative of where the team morale is at the moment. I would say the experiment of “ the going back culture” has not been effective and could be the problem. If I wasn’t part of the few that have been through the bad times why would I want to be dragged back into yesterday’s culture. If simon was a cahill or a jedinak maybe I would aspire ......... but not for simon ............ get real. Culture experiment so far = fail.

Hiearji (Tom) whatever the problem is = fail.

Lethargic warmup = assisstant coach fail.

Given extra funds at the end of recruiting after buying a cheap squad = fail.

The league has never looked stronger. Perth, Adelaide, Victory, sfc, City, Brisbane have all the squads to beat each other on any day. Wsw and Jets are not far behind but relying on a team effort to give them the edge. Us and the nux are only making up the numbers.
:(:(:(:(
 

priorpeter

Well-Known Member
You could see it as the players lined up for the pre-game ceremony. MVC players mostly bouncing, jumping, stretching etc - they looked up for it. Ccm players all stood flat footed, not looking interested in what was to come (except pain, who kept moving)
 

JoyfulPenguin

Well-Known Member
You could see it as the players lined up for the pre-game ceremony. MVC players mostly bouncing, jumping, stretching etc - they looked up for it. Ccm players all stood flat footed, not looking interested in what was to come (except pain, who kept moving)
For the vast part of the warm up, apart from Pain, McCormack, Oar and occasionally Melling taking shots players were ambling around just gently kicking the ball to one another, there was no intensity whatsoever. Even when Pain, McCormack, Oar and Melling were taking their shots Kennedy and Pearce weren't making proper attempts to save the ball and just allowing them to shoot with nearly no pressure.
 
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Timmah

Well-Known Member
That's a very black and white way of looking at it. Everyone has a point where they say enough is enough, they've sat through bad seasons and we aren't talking about the kind of disappointment wanderers or roar fans might have had over recent years either. We're talking years of under spending, wooden spoons and being solidly in contention for the ones we didn't get. Unlike a marriage you've got no input on how the club does things, you can't work on it, the only thing that they will notice is if the fans close their wallets and stop attending. It's the only power any of us have to really be heard. Sticking with the club is admirable but there's no need to crap on people that want to be heard.
There are far more productive ways to achieve that end without walking away from something you claim to be devoted to.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
There are far more productive ways to achieve that end without walking away from something you claim to be devoted to.

Such as? Maybe I'm cynical but I don't see how anything average joe can do will have any influence. Not to mention if you make people jump through hoops to do so while they're paying for a membership it's not going to be an effective retention strategy.

For what it's worth I'm a new member this year but I do know some long term supporters that have stepped away, they've put enough money and time in over the dark times not to be labelled as bandwagoners.
 

Timmah

Well-Known Member
Such as? Maybe I'm cynical but I don't see how anything average joe can do will have any influence. Not to mention if you make people jump through hoops to do so while they're paying for a membership it's not going to be an effective retention strategy.

For what it's worth I'm a new member this year but I do know some long term supporters that have stepped away, they've put enough money in over the dark times not to be labelled as bandwagoners.
They could certainly be labelled bandwagoners if they gleefully jump back on if/when we come good.

But as @priorpeter helpfully pointed out - if you claim to be a dedicated supporter and want the owners/management to spend more money to improve the club, depriving them of several hundred dollars or more won't help them achieve those ends.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
They could certainly be labelled bandwagoners if they gleefully jump back on if/when we come good.

Perhaps they've had their enjoyment of watching the team eroded by constantly being served the same crap over a period of years while paying for the privilege. Would you rather they not come back?

if you claim to be a dedicated supporter and want the owners/management to spend more money to improve the club, depriving them of several hundred dollars or more won't help them achieve those ends

It didnt help them spend more money the previous few seasons either. Until the Bolt situation came about it didnt look like this year was going to be any better, remember Oar & McCormack only came on late, that left our attacking hopes with an injured player, an NPL recruit and Simon. You can't do one thing like opening the wallet for one season and expect people to come rushing back believing you've changed. This is a situation the club has put itself in and they need to earn their way back from because if they don't it will die a slow death as more rusted on fans lose interest over time.
 

scottmac

Suspended
This start has nothing to do with money. It's coaching. This team has not been prepared for a season start. We are dramatically off the pace and there is no hunger. Something is wrong other than the spend. MC has no part to play in this. For once he's done his job. Mulvey and Monty need to step up here. That's where we are lacking.
 

Timmah

Well-Known Member
Perhaps they've had their enjoyment of watching the team eroded by constantly being served the same crap over a period of years while paying for the privilege. Would you rather they not come back?
Whether they come back or not is immaterial to the discussion - if they do there's a justifiable argument to call them bandwagoners. @Forum Phoenix, IMO, is right.

For what it's worth, I don't believe four seasons in the doldrums is that much of an imposte on supporters.

I'm not naive - I know that people will walk away if these kind of results persist (although having said that, I also think four rounds into the season is far too early to judge), however I also believe that there are other clubs in far worse positions - relatively speaking - than us. We achieved the ultimate (depending on your defintion) success just five years ago, I'd rather that followed by a few off years than nothing like Perth (not to mention the cap debacle lol), or absolutely nothing and constant eviction threats like the Nix.

It didnt help them spend more money the previous few seasons either. Until the Bolt situation came about it didnt look like this year was going to be any better, remember Oar & McCormack only came on late, that left our attacking hopes with an injured player, an NPL recruit and Simon. You can't do one thing like opening the wallet for one season and expect people to come rushing back believing you've changed. This is a situation the club has put itself in and they need to earn their way back from because if they don't it will die a slow death as more rusted on fans lose interest over time.
This I don't understand. He should've spent money before and now he's spending money it's too late? You can't have it both ways.

When it comes down to it, IMO the bones of a good team is there now - there are some obvious areas we need improvement in but I think after an injury-stunted pre-season the team just needs a couple more weeks to gel, as unfortunate as that is.
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
I agree with you on that. The team coming together late certainly didnt do us many favours for a good start but that can't be changed now. I'll leave it there because we aren't going anywhere or going to change anyone's mind.

You should have asked for the name of one of the teams worse off than us ???.:popcorn:
 

JoyfulPenguin

Well-Known Member
Whether they come back or not is immaterial to the discussion - if they do there's a justifiable argument to call them bandwagoners. @Forum Phoenix, IMO, is right.

For what it's worth, I don't believe four seasons in the doldrums is that much of an imposte on supporters.

I'm not naive - I know that people will walk away if these kind of results persist (although having said that, I also think four rounds into the season is far too early to judge), however I also believe that there are other clubs in far worse positions - relatively speaking - than us. We achieved the ultimate (depending on your defintion) success just five years ago, I'd rather that followed by a few off years than nothing like Perth (not to mention the cap debacle lol), or absolutely nothing and constant eviction threats like the Nix.


This I don't understand. He should've spent money before and now he's spending money it's too late? You can't have it both ways.

When it comes down to it, IMO the bones of a good team is there now - there are some obvious areas we need improvement in but I think after an injury-stunted pre-season the team just needs a couple more weeks to gel, as unfortunate as that is.
I agree with you Timmah that four years of suffering isn't too bad, but I think the problem is that for us to be a viable entity into the future we need to be successfull. We need to be adding something to the league and in the last few years what have we added? Izzo, Buhagiar, Wales, Hiariej and O'Donovan are probably our only positive contributions to the league during the last four years. If we don't consistently develop, at the very least A-League level players, and heighten the standard of the A-League how can we justify our position in the league?
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
Good post. Regarding your early comments on the approach - the problem with trying to get the mongrel back is that the mongrels are going to lose their mongrel if we keep getting beat.
A can-do attitude tends to lose a bit of steam when we clearly can't.

I think you might be right that it will take too long to gel.

Doesn't mean a top 6 is out of the question.......

Anyway, somebody on Reddit was commenting on BK's warmup.....how other keepers are always really intense, really focussed, while BK is just not giving a shot, not bothering to save shots - same with our reserve keeper. Just not switched on.

I have seen keepers pulled aside and told not to try to hard in the warmup because saving too many takes the confidence out of the strikers. Of course that has the effect that the keepers don't properly warm up and the strikers think that it is easy to score until they come up against someone trying to stop it.
 

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