International Football School

[Yoda]

Firstly, this is my first post here but I've been "lurking" for a number of years. I must say I'm disappointed that when I signed up for an account I had to answer a question "Newcastle ____" and when I answered Jest it asked me another question?

Anyway, on topic. Liga Academy is a fantastic opportunity for juniors to play out of season. For juniors ie 5-10 year olds to progress technically, the only avenue available is Academy style training. My son has been fortunate to have a great coach for his local club side, but training for 1/2 hour to an hour a week and a 30 minute small sided game on a Saturday morning for a max 15 weeks (if you count washouts) is not enough time for a talented grassroots player to develop the technical skills required to play at a higher level, particularly with the modern thoughts of "non-comp", no grading of small sided teams and zero rep sides for stronger players to develop at a faster rate. The Liga Academy are very professionally run and offers an additional outlet for my son to play the game he loves throughout the year, and does not demand that he not play for his local of a Saturday also. I would recommend for any parent with a child who is above average to explore the benefits of year round academy style training to further develop their talent.

 

[adz]

Firstly, this is my first post here but I've been "lurking" for a number of years. I must say I'm disappointed that when I signed up for an account I had to answer a question "Newcastle ____" and when I answered Jest it asked me another question?

The reason for the question/answer is to prevent spam bots registering. It might not sound like a big thing but without it we'd have thousands of new registrations a day. The problem then is finding questions easy enough that anyone can answer, without being too easy that the automated spam bots can guess, e.g. what colour is the sky?

I've added jest, scum, bogans, and c**ts as possible answers to that question, to prevent any confusion in the future.

Welcome to the forum by the way, and thanks for jumping in after following the site for a while. If you have any problems on the site feel free to message me, or make a new post in this forum.

 

[FFC Mariner]

You would expect that any gifted kids will be scooped up by the CCM Academy quick smart and brought "back" into the fold.

Had lunch today with a scummer coaching in their local development squad and he was raving about the school

 

[dibo]

Hmmm why would you be so concerned that IFS is in liga academy? From what I've heard and seen the kids are having a great time in liga. Undermining FFA/FNSW? I think you should get your facts straight before making such accusations. Give IFS a call and ask them why they're play liga..... Questions for you........Have you ever started a football school or academy and then tried to enter into CCF or FNSW competitions to get regular game time? More red tape than a communist party!!!!! Do some research pal before shooting from the hip.

I know a bit about it. The question I have is "why shouldn't there be *considerable* regulation of who can start academies/clubs and enter FNSW competitions or programs?"

Why shouldn't operators have to provide details on who's running them, what their qualifications are, what the kids (or more accurately, their parents) are getting for their money, how the company is structured and governed, what the facilities are... ?

In other words, why should it be a free-for-all? We want kids to be in quality programs, managed well and in keeping with the FFA curriculum. We want those programs to support and augment what is happening in grassroots clubs, because they're the lifeblood of the game. We want to be sure that when people hand over their money they're getting something in return and it's not just another shonk.

I think if you don't want those things then I think your values in respect of football are vastly different to mine.

Firstly, this is my first post here but I've been "lurking" for a number of years. I must say I'm disappointed that when I signed up for an account I had to answer a question "Newcastle ____" and when I answered Jest it asked me another question?

Anyway, on topic. Liga Academy is a fantastic opportunity for juniors to play out of season. For juniors ie 5-10 year olds to progress technically, the only avenue available is Academy style training. My son has been fortunate to have a great coach for his local club side, but training for 1/2 hour to an hour a week and a 30 minute small sided game on a Saturday morning for a max 15 weeks (if you count washouts) is not enough time for a talented grassroots player to develop the technical skills required to play at a higher level, particularly with the modern thoughts of "non-comp", no grading of small sided teams and zero rep sides for stronger players to develop at a faster rate. The Liga Academy are very professionally run and offers an additional outlet for my son to play the game he loves throughout the year, and does not demand that he not play for his local of a Saturday also. I would recommend for any parent with a child who is above average to explore the benefits of year round academy style training to further develop their talent.

I reckon the Academy Liga is simply a response from a small number of private for-profit academies to the perceived threat that has come from a better managed and governed Premier Youth League system for 12-15s and expanded Skills Acquisition Program of 9-11s.

I don't doubt that kids will have a great time, and parents may feel they're getting value for money. I just looked up one of the academies and they're charging $2600 a year for 8-14 year olds - more than the PYL clubs are even charging and more than $1000 more than SAP.

They're not playing in elite facilities, the kit is no more special than any other rep club kit, so someone's clipping a fair chunk out of that ticket.

I also don't think it's the best thing for kids' development. SAP has been set up specifically to work on the building blocks of individual technique, it's the skills acquisition phase of the curriculum. Kids shouldn't be playing competitive matches and looking up tables, they should be trying things out and discovering what they're capable of. Hold the competitive stuff until the next stage, where they can put their technical ability to the test in a more competitive environment.

Non-comp football isn't new - I was playing non-competitive football with smaller teams and on smaller fields up to U9s in 1990, so for as long as I've been around there have been modified programs for the little ones.

*****

On IFS - I'd be *much* happier if they were tied in with CCMA instead of the privateer academy. I'd much rather they be part of the orthodox pathway. Hell, I'd also be happier if they ran out of a public school as a Talented Sports Program like at Westfield, Endeavour and the Hills and let the kids choose where they want to participate in their football, but that's another area of discussion. It's not like a public school that is keen on building a program wouldn't give their right arm for the likes of Julie Dolan.

 

[Einstein]

I have my concerns as well.

 

[Mumbles]

I think the school needs to build a foundation, a track record from which they can negotiate with FNSW or the local CCF if that's the direction they need to follow.

SAP now provides an income for a lot of Rep clubs too, but at a much lower cost model than the academies so its only a matter of time before the Liga's disappear. In the interim it's more touches on the ball for the little ones.

FNSW aren't known for their speedy decision making
Be patient!

 

[Yoda]

SAP now provides an income for a lot of Rep clubs too, but at a much lower cost model than the academies

You have to remember that it is only a lower cost model because the program is subsidised by club registrations, so if your child isn't playing for a rep side, which most won't, you are indirectly paying for someone else's child to recieve additional coaching. I'm not going to buy into the philosophical debate as per above only to say that both can quite easily co-exist, as it does with my family, and agree with Mumbles that the more touches the better for a developing child and at the moment there is no other avenue for this for 5-8ish yearolds that love the game so much.

 

[Mumbles]

We went to Soccer pro at Mingara years ago. More touches and variety of coaching. Never regretted it.

 

[bistro]

@DIBO

You're really drinking this FNSW development coolaid arent you.....

If FFA/FNSW sanctioned football programs are the ONLY way forward for developing talent then Aussie football is stuffed. What I find ironic about the FFA talent development is that they want to develop/unearth "match winners" I.e. "Creative players that bring something special and unique (x factor even)" however they want everyone to dance to the same music or fit into the same mold which in my mind kills creativity. We're people not widgets.

I for one am glad IFS has emerged and as a football fan, parent and player, Im not threatened by IFS kids playing liga because its all for the good of developing football talent in this country. And, as a parent I have the right to spend my money on my kids development anyway I like. FFA/FNSW annointed or not!

You keep spruiking the regulated FFA/FNSW pathway as if it is some sort of quality guarantee stamp.....Well heres a true picture of the FFA/FNSW sanctioned path.........
Kid plays CCMA cost $1800 pa for 3 sessions a week plus a game on weekends under the instruction of an FFA youth licensed coach (amateur player) - who might be lucky to have 2-3 group sessions with the CCMA tech director during the year. Kids start playing for silverware from age 11 (U12s) in a promotion/relegation comp (hmm I wonder how many long balls will be kicked to make sure we dont get relegated.....opps there goes the FFA/NC we have to win afterall for the club/coaches reputation etc etc..........)

To complete the picture add in a modest private school fee pa of $5000 and all up schooling plus football costs about $7000 and I still only get an amateur youth license coach and possibly several teachers that dont really want to be teaching kids but its a job afterall. And at least hes playing in the FNSW annointed program so he must be on the pathway to success right......

And heres IFS.........

Kid goes to IFS cost $4800 pa for 5 sessions a week plus games when they can get them (liga - non comp oh dear not those rebels....you mean kids are encouraged and praised for being creative? How dare they - shouldnt we be trying to win a trophy or something?)
Throw in a full time Tech Director of Julie Dolan, Professional players who are also the coaches with A-licences Joey Peters, Andre Grumprecht, C license Brad Porter. Oh and they get a cooked lunch each day, and you dont have to ferry them to training 3 nights a weeks because its all done at school and their teachers actually want to be there teaching the kids.......

Speaks for itself really.............

 

[Einstein]

@DIBO

You're really drinking this FNSW development coolaid arent you.....

If FFA/FNSW sanctioned football programs are the ONLY way forward for developing talent then Aussie football is stuffed. What I find ironic about the FFA talent development is that they want to develop/unearth "match winners" I.e. "Creative players that bring something special and unique (x factor even)" however they want everyone to dance to the same music or fit into the same mold which in my mind kills creativity. We're people not widgets.

I for one am glad IFS has emerged and as a football fan, parent and player, Im not threatened by IFS kids playing liga because its all for the good of developing football talent in this country. And, as a parent I have the right to spend my money on my kids development anyway I like. FFA/FNSW annointed or not!

You keep spruiking the regulated FFA/FNSW pathway as if it is some sort of quality guarantee stamp.....Well heres a true picture of the FFA/FNSW sanctioned path.........
Kid plays CCMA cost $1800 pa for 3 sessions a week plus a game on weekends under the instruction of an FFA youth licensed coach (amateur player) - who might be lucky to have 2-3 group sessions with the CCMA tech director during the year. Kids start playing for silverware from age 11 (U12s) in a promotion/relegation comp (hmm I wonder how many long balls will be kicked to make sure we dont get relegated.....opps there goes the FFA/NC we have to win afterall for the club/coaches reputation etc etc..........)

To complete the picture add in a modest private school fee pa of $5000 and all up schooling plus football costs about $7000 and I still only get an amateur youth license coach and possibly several teachers that dont really want to be teaching kids but its a job afterall. And at least hes playing in the FNSW annointed program so he must be on the pathway to success right......

And heres IFS.........

Kid goes to IFS cost $4800 pa for 5 sessions a week plus games when they can get them (liga - non comp oh dear not those rebels....you mean kids are encouraged and praised for being creative? How dare they - shouldnt we be trying to win a trophy or something?)
Throw in a full time Tech Director of Julie Dolan, Professional players who are also the coaches with A-licences Joey Peters, Andre Grumprecht, C license Brad Porter. Oh and they get a cooked lunch each day, and you dont have to ferry them to training 3 nights a weeks because its all done at school and their teachers actually want to be there teaching the kids.......

Speaks for itself really.............

Is it a Womens Football Academy? Or male and female?

 

[dibo]

You have to remember that it is only a lower cost model because the program is subsidised by club registrations, so if your child isn't playing for a rep side, which most won't, you are indirectly paying for someone else's child to recieve additional coaching. I'm not going to buy into the philosophical debate as per above only to say that both can quite easily co-exist, as it does with my family, and agree with Mumbles that the more touches the better for a developing child and at the moment there is no other avenue for this for 5-8ish yearolds that love the game so much.

How can rep clubs be creaming off the top of SAP on one hand and associations subsidising SAP on the other?

 

[dibo]

@DIBO

You're really drinking this FNSW development coolaid arent you.....

If FFA/FNSW sanctioned football programs are the ONLY way forward for developing talent then Aussie football is stuffed. What I find ironic about the FFA talent development is that they want to develop/unearth "match winners" I.e. "Creative players that bring something special and unique (x factor even)" however they want everyone to dance to the same music or fit into the same mold which in my mind kills creativity. We're people not widgets.

So developing kids to be creative match winners with an x-factor kills creativity? Internally contradictory.

I for one am glad IFS has emerged and as a football fan, parent and player, Im not threatened by IFS kids playing liga because its all for the good of developing football talent in this country. And, as a parent I have the right to spend my money on my kids development anyway I like. FFA/FNSW annointed or not!

You're a consumer, you're free to make your choices, just as I'm free to have an opinion about them.

You keep spruiking the regulated FFA/FNSW pathway as if it is some sort of quality guarantee stamp.....Well heres a true picture of the FFA/FNSW sanctioned path.........
Kid plays CCMA cost $1800 pa for 3 sessions a week plus a game on weekends under the instruction of an FFA youth licensed coach (amateur player) - who might be lucky to have 2-3 group sessions with the CCMA tech director during the year. Kids start playing for silverware from age 11 (U12s) in a promotion/relegation comp (hmm I wonder how many long balls will be kicked to make sure we dont get relegated.....opps there goes the FFA/NC we have to win afterall for the club/coaches reputation etc etc..........)

CCMA SAP (9-11) is no more than $1500 - just like every other SAP program. It's regulated by FNSW.

As for P&R for youth league - I can speak to that in some detail, as I was in the room when it was decided on.

The Competitions Review put forward a proposal to have YL clubs split into conferences and compete with other clubs on a regional basis. This would have reduced travel commitments but also ensured that clubs in either PL1 or PL2 had the same incentives to develop kids and the same opportunities to compete against quality.

A concern of the panel was that the top SYL clubs in the past had been hamstrung by their seniors - they couldn't compete against the best because their seniors were unable to be promoted. Meanwhile clubs at the bottom of PYL were protected if their seniors were strong enough. So the bottom half of PYL would be stacked with 'politicals' whose dads or grandads were sponsors and could drop large sums into the clubs to pay first graders who keep them out of relegation trouble. And so it went...

The Town Hall meetings of the Competitions Review pretty resoundingly (and regrettably) rejected the regional model, but the majority of the Comps Review panel felt that the status quo is actually worse than forcing clubs to actually do some work on their YL sides and drive development, plus rewarding PYL2 clubs who are strong and do good work.

The status quo (no P&R) was seen as the worst case scenario - including by the FNSW Technical Director and FFA staff in the room.

It's also worth noting that P&R existed between SYL and Division 1 YL for years - it was only the PYL clubs that had protection.

To complete the picture add in a modest private school fee pa of $5000 and all up schooling plus football costs about $7000 and I still only get an amateur youth license coach and possibly several teachers that dont really want to be teaching kids but its a job afterall. And at least hes playing in the FNSW annointed program so he must be on the pathway to success right......

And heres IFS.........

Kid goes to IFS cost $4800 pa for 5 sessions a week plus games when they can get them (liga - non comp oh dear not those rebels....you mean kids are encouraged and praised for being creative? How dare they - shouldnt we be trying to win a trophy or something?)
Throw in a full time Tech Director of Julie Dolan, Professional players who are also the coaches with A-licences Joey Peters, Andre Grumprecht, C license Brad Porter. Oh and they get a cooked lunch each day, and you dont have to ferry them to training 3 nights a weeks because its all done at school and their teachers actually want to be there teaching the kids.......

Speaks for itself really.............

Private school is the parent's choice, and should be considered independently of your comparison. As far as accredited coaches - at least there is some requirement for the coaches to *be* accredited in the pathway programs, rather than the unregulated Liga. IFS might well be good, but frankly it's the wild west out there.

There's a value for money argument there, sure, but I'd rather see that effort and talent (noting I have no idea whether Gumps and Chicken are good coaches, badges aside) go into a pathway program.

 

[Einstein]

And the irony is that Porter came through FNSW academies and did his coaching through FNSW.

 

[bistro]

Is it a Womens Football Academy? Or male and female?

both male and female

 

[bistro]

So developing kids to be creative match winners with an x-factor kills creativity? Internally contradictory.

I think you missed my point here. FFA want creative match winners (I.e. its a goal of FFA) but their methods for youth development including the outcome of CR stifles creativity.

You're a consumer, you're free to make your choices, just as I'm free to have an opinion about them.

Yes I am and yes you are but you also made accusations about IFS on a public forum so I'm free to put some truths to the matter.

CCMA SAP (9-11) is no more than $1500 - just like every other SAP program. It's regulated by FNSW.

Sure the $1800 I was alluding to was in relation to what U12s (11 years old kids) and up pay in CCMA (not in SAP)

As for P&R for youth league - I can speak to that in some detail, as I was in the room when it was decided on.

The Competitions Review put forward a proposal to have YL clubs split into conferences and compete with other clubs on a regional basis. This would have reduced travel commitments but also ensured that clubs in either PL1 or PL2 had the same incentives to develop kids and the same opportunities to compete against quality.

A concern of the panel was that the top SYL clubs in the past had been hamstrung by their seniors - they couldn't compete against the best because their seniors were unable to be promoted. Meanwhile clubs at the bottom of PYL were protected if their seniors were strong enough. So the bottom half of PYL would be stacked with 'politicals' whose dads or grandads were sponsors and could drop large sums into the clubs to pay first graders who keep them out of relegation trouble. And so it went...

The Town Hall meetings of the Competitions Review pretty resoundingly (and regrettably) rejected the regional model, but the majority of the Comps Review panel felt that the status quo is actually worse than forcing clubs to actually do some work on their YL sides and drive development, plus rewarding PYL2 clubs who are strong and do good work.

The status quo (no P&R) was seen as the worst case scenario - including by the FNSW Technical Director and FFA staff in the room.

It's also worth noting that P&R existed between SYL and Division 1 YL for years - it was only the PYL clubs that had protection.

Sure you've highlighted how political football is (nothing new there) No wonder liga academy exists! And I'll bet the parents are more than happy to pay for it. But my point on P&R stands. As far as football development is concerned it WILL force coaches to play to win (at the expense of development) so they don't get relegated. Just basic human psychology unfortunately short term gains without considering the long term development cycle.
Now, I'd rather see kids (up to U15) not exposed to continual competitive battles each weekend when instead they could be using the weekend game as a litmus test for development rather than winning a trophy or not getting relegated (plenty of time as an adult to deal with that) But maybe thats just me.....Pretty sure Barca do this as well.

Private school is the parent's choice, and should be considered independently of your comparison.

Possibly.

As far as accredited coaches - at least there is some requirement for the coaches to *be* accredited in the pathway programs, rather than the unregulated Liga. IFS might well be good, but frankly it's the wild west out there.

Yes but the wild west can bring something new and innovative. Don't assume the pathway to success is if everyone does the same thing. I don't have a vested interest in the FFA pathway but it sounds like you do so I understand where your comments are coming from now.

There's a value for money argument there, sure, but I'd rather see that effort and talent (noting I have no idea whether Gumps and Chicken are good coaches, badges aside) go into a pathway program.

It is going into a pathway program just not an FFA/FNSW annointed one.....yet..........

 

[dibo]

oh, so it's going to be like PDP, where a small number of clubs held a gun to FNSW's head?

 

[bistro]

oh, so it's going to be like PDP, where a small number of clubs held a gun to FNSW's head?

wow you've got some baggage.......Don't assume IFS is like any of your past experiences. I can sense how committed you are to FNSW and you've probably had the history to be so jaded but when something new comes along don't jump to conclusions too early.

 

[dibo]

If it walks like a duck...

 

[Einstein]

Why vegetarian food? Who's beliefs are they ramming down their throats?

 

[bistro]

You guys are unbelievably arrogant! What you're suggesting is that as long as everyone's a meat eating FNSW loving person then the world of football is fine! Wake up lads we're not living back in 50s.