Difficult and Thorny Issue

[viper2716]

dibo

So why is it then , that a boy who can play for the English national team because he is a british citizen and that is already able to be classed as 1 of their quota of english players , is held back and yet Australian boys only there on visas are cleared . This goes against the FIFA rule that you like to bring up .  You cant have it both ways .

The FFA have dug a big hole for themselves .

Dont know if you know but Reece is a Gosford boy , who played for Wyoming Tigers .

 

[dibo]

Eligible by ancestry it would seem, he is an australian national and falls under the FFA's purview. Like I said before:

*If* the FFA has made a screwup in applying the rule one way in one circumstance and another in Caira's case, then I'm sure it will blow up on them and perhaps so it should.

The FFA have dug a big hole for themselves.

So you have claimed. We will see. I don't know anything about the circumstances of those cases and if it's the case that they've been released improperly by failing to apply the rule that they're applying to Caira, then sure. That's still far from clear - I've only seen that *claimed* but not confirmed by the FFA or any other party.

 

[midfielder]

FFA treat everyone the same .... yes they do ....HHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh ..... NOT

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,,25849932-5006373,00.html

MEETING A-League indigenous soccer icon Travis Dodd for the first time was an inspiration for promising youngster Steven Pepper, who is now on his way to Spain on a one-year contract.Dodd was Pepper's Australian idol after the Adelaide United skipper created history by becoming the first indigenous player to score a goal for the Socceroos in a 2-0 win over Kuwait in an Asian Cup fixture in 2006.

Pepper said Dodd was the motivating factor in his ambition to become a Socceroo and professional footballer. The youngster took part in the recent Football Federation Australia Indigenous Football Festival, representing Wakala, in Townsville earlier this month.

"Yeah, I look up to him (Dodd) heaps," Pepper said.

"He's an indigenous player who has inspired me."

Pepper, 15, was signed by one of Spain's youth development clubs, Union Deportivo Cornella, last month. The club recently sold Spanish teenager Ignasi Miquel, 15, to Arsenal for a reported $2 million.

Pepper will have his first training session in Spain on August 16.

"I'll be away from my family but it was fun when I was there for a month," he said.

"It's a dream and I think I'll have more opportunities over there."

Pepper started his career at Modbury Vista before joining NAB and later Campbelltown City.

The attacking midfielder has been working under the guidance of former United captain Ross Aloisi this year and has been training with Campbelltown's Super League senior squad.

 

[viper2716]

Dido

Maybe it would be good to do abit of research 1st before speaking about Fifa rules and the way the FFA inforce them and that they are applied universally , one size fits all . Boys at preston are Cameron Parrish and Bailey Wright ( who is an ex Joeys player ) , both cleared in the last fortnight . Bailey was given a temperary clearance which last 12 months , because the FFA did not even bother to reply to the english FA request within the 30 day period , thus allowing the clearance.By the time 12 months is up Bailey will be already 18 and free to go .

Midfielder

the boy in your article , will not have to seek a clearance until he turns 16 , up until then you can play om trialist forms . All clearances now go straight to Fifa as of the 1st of October , so he wont have to deal with the FFA.

We also had a boy forced to return because of the FFA and their stance , he was starting a 5 year deal with Everton , now he has to stay here until he turns 18 .Theres another one that will be lining up to play for their country if asked , i think not

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Absolute disgrace.


On another note, I wish you would consider renaming this thread Midfileder, as I think it's very important and perhaps is not quite expressed by its current title.
???

 

[dibo]

I did some research.

Regulations on the Status and Transfers of players (October 2009):

19 Protection of minors

1. International transfers of players are only permitted if the player is over the age of 18.

2. The following three exceptions to this rule apply:

a) The players parents move to the country in which the new club is located for reasons not linked to football.

b) The transfer takes place within the territory of the European Union (EU) or European Economic Area (EEA) and the player is aged between 16 and 18. In this case, the new club must fulfil the following minimum obligations:
i. It shall provide the player with an adequate football education and/or training in line with the highest national standards.
ii. It shall guarantee the player an academic and/or school and/or vocational education and/or training, in addition to his football education and/or training, which will allow the player to pursue a career other than football should he cease playing professional football.
iii. It shall make all necessary arrangements to ensure that the player is looked after in the best possible way (optimum living standards with a host family or in club accommodation, appointment of a mentor at the club, etc.).
iv. It shall, on registration of such a player, provide the relevant association with proof that it is complying with the aforementioned obligations;

c) The player lives no further than 50km from a national border and the club with which the player wishes to be registered in the neighbouring association is also within 50km of that border. The maximum distance between the players domicile and the clubs headquarters shall be 100km.
In such cases, the player must continue to live at home and the two associations concerned must give their explicit consent.

3. The conditions of this article shall also apply to any player who has never previously been registered with a club and is not a national of the country in which he wishes to be registered for the first time.

4. Every international transfer according to paragraph 2 and every first registration according to paragraph 3 is subject to the approval of the subcommittee appointed by the Players Status Committee for that purpose. The application for approval shall be submitted by the association that wishes to register the player. The former association shall be given the opportunity to submit its position. The sub-committees approval shall be obtained prior to any request from an association for an International Transfer Certificate and/ or a first registration. Any violations of this provision will be sanctioned by the Disciplinary Committee in accordance with the FIFA Disciplinary Code. In addition to the association that failed to apply to the sub-committee, sanctions may also be imposed on the former association for issuing an International Transfer Certificate without the approval of the sub-committee, as well as on the clubs that reached an agreement for the transfer of a minor.

The first bolded part is the key part of the reg. Everything hangs off the back of that.

The second bolded part shows the first key part of the exemption process. Neither of the other two parts are applicable - we're not talking about an intra-EU transfer or a short cross-border hop here. Failing to prove 'non-football reasons' would knock it all on the head.

The next bolded part in section 19.4 illustrates the process, while the last bolded part illustrates the consequences for transgression.

All parties would want to be satisfied that the transfer meets the requirements of FIFA's rules before applying for the transfer. Other players having been granted exemptions does not in and of itself prove that the FFA has done the wrong thing - they may have been satisfied that the criterion specified in part 2 has been satisfied while in Caira's case they may not. So perhaps Viper's right, it's not one size fits all, but that doesn't help this kid.

I'm not saying this *is* what has happened, because clearly none of that is public, but that *is* possible.

*If* the FFA has broken rules or misapplied them, I'm sure they'll be in bother. I've seen nothing that convinces me that this is the only thing that could have happened. Viper can come on here arguing his case (Where have you been before now, Viper?) but one side of the story ain't enough for a hanging in my view.

Lastly, it seems the FFA has ruled that the move has been for primarily football reasons. That's their prerogative and can be tested. Surely it's then up to the Cairas to prove that they moved for some other reason.

 

[viper2716]

Keep an eye out dibo the media in england have picked up on this case , the fact the boy at liverpool came out of an ex AIS coaches academy that had already supplied Dean bouzanis (sorry if spelt wrong ) to liverpool is starting to look alot like ,its not what you know but its who you know.Remembering that your favourite rules were in place well before Dean was signed with liverpool, and also they let dean go after he was on loan at sydney fc at the age of 17 . do you think they did not know he was going for football reasons.

Dont be surprised if the english use this to discredit the Australian bid for the world cup .

 

[dibo]

I know you'll push it, but frankly it's trivial at best. Australia enforces FIFA rules doesn't make for much of a headline.

 

[midfielder]

On another note, I wish you would consider renaming this thread Midfileder, as I think it's very important and perhaps is not quite expressed by its current title.
???

Happy to oblige.

Any ideas ... FFA under 18 Policy !
                  FIFA youth rules enforced by FFA...

 

[Jesus]

Agree with the thought that there should be certain clubs where it is ok. As long a decent education is also mandatory at the academy. Which it is often not.

Otherwise, even though this is meant to help against the basic slave trade in young footballers, it will also ensure young aussies dont get ditched by these academies when they turn 18, without even the equivelant of a high school education and little job prospects

 

[dibo]

Agree with the thought that there should be certain clubs where it is ok. As long a decent education is also mandatory at the academy. Which it is often not.

Rule 19bis of the document I quoted above came into force this month and deals with that.

Otherwise, even though this is meant to help against the basic slave trade in young footballers, it will also ensure young aussies dont get ditched by these academies when they turn 18, without even the equivelant of a high school education and little job prospects

That's the basic problem. That's why the 'non football reasons' clause is there. What happens if Caira doesn't make it?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

On another note, I wish you would consider renaming this thread Midfileder, as I think it's very important and perhaps is not quite expressed by its current title.
???

Happy to oblige.

Any ideas ... FFA under 18 Policy !
                  FIFA youth rules enforced by FFA...

Thx for your consideration MF.
I think the first is probably the best. It's still impartial, even though I'm not.

Agree with the thought that there should be certain clubs where it is ok. As long a decent education is also mandatory at the academy. Which it is often not.

Rule 19bis of the document I quoted above came into force this month and deals with that.

Otherwise, even though this is meant to help against the basic slave trade in young footballers, it will also ensure young aussies dont get ditched by these academies when they turn 18, without even the equivelant of a high school education and little job prospects

That's the basic problem. That's why the 'non football reasons' clause is there. What happens if Caira doesn't make it?

If he doesn't make it at 18, he moves somewhere else and tries, comes home and tries, or just gets a bloody job like everyone else.

He might not have a degree... But it's not like he's forever doomed to be walking the streets saying... "Penny for an ex villa'n guvna?"

Go to TAFE... get an apprenticeship... Can go back to school to do his HSC if he likes.

The idea that this is for his protection is just ridiculous. It's hurting not helping. ANd exemptions CAN be made. So why not?

Also I really don't understand is why a family can't move to another country for football reasons? Can someone please explain the logic/purpose of this to me?

I really just don't get it. And the more I read, I still don't find anything that is morally abhorrent or dangerous in this situation and so warrants a kid not being able to play on the weekends and develop to what will obviously be his advantage and possibly even ours...

 

[viper2716]

Every boy in the FA academy system that is a scholor has to do a sports science degree , that was developed by the FA and is compulsory to all clubs . Its a 2 year course that when completed will achieve a pass mark equal to 3 A levels , which in turn will be a high enough level to gain access to uni if the football fails .

Another aussie boy today recieved his clearance to play for portsmouth , he has moved with his family to england in july and has already been cleared . The FFA had the power still to release him , due to the fact his appeal was lodged before the 1st of october .

 

[dibo]

Viper, it's not us that you have to convince. It's FIFA and the FFA.

 

[Jesus]

Every boy in the FA academy system that is a scholor has to do a sports science degree , that was developed by the FA and is compulsory to all clubs . Its a 2 year course that when completed will achieve a pass mark equal to 3 A levels , which in turn will be a high enough level to gain access to uni if the football fails .

Another aussie boy today recieved his clearance to play for portsmouth , he has moved with his family to england in july and has already been cleared . The FFA had the power still to release him , due to the fact his appeal was lodged before the 1st of october .

This is not just about england.

What about young footballers going to france/romania/holland/qatar/etc etc

Club by club, player by player basis is essential.

Plenty of young lads have gone to english academies, and i know a few, who have not recieved a decent education. If you dont make it in football then you are starting way behind everyone else.

 

[Paolo]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-target-has-transfer-to-England-blocked-by-FIFA-and-is-then-banned-for-a-year-article248635.html

Aston Villa target has transfer to England blocked by FIFA - and is then banned for a year!
FIFA have astonishingly blocked Aston Villa's signing of top Australian youngster Reece Caira - and banned him for the next year.

The 16-year-old midfielder was told by the game's governing body that his transfer from Down Under has not been accepted and he cannot play any form of football until he is 18 in January 2011.

Amazingly Caira has a British passport, his dad is English and his mum half-Irish but is ruled out of playing for Villa because of FIFA's crazy rules.

Now Villa and the FA are seeking an explanation from Sepp Blatter's organisation in a potentially landmark case - although they will take months to even get an appeal heard.

Caira moved to England with his family a year ago and Villa offered him a contract after he impressed on trial. But now he has become a political pawn, with the Australian Federation fighting his move.

Furious dad Phil said last night: "I was born in Stevenage and we often came home to see family and football. Reece saw his first Premier League game when he was nine.

"I realise FIFA have these rules to stop African kids being exploited, but we are a British family. Now Reece won't be able to play serious football unless he goes back to Australia without us. How can that be right?"

Villa have put lawyers on the case and believe that FIFA may be breaking EC laws by stopping Caira from playing football for them.

 

[dibo]

tomorrow the mirror will run a story about english clubs never starting any english players in their sides, never signing english juniors and 'johnny foreigner' keeping talented english players out or english academies and demanding the FA or FIFA stiffen up their 'crazy' rules.

 

[Paolo]

tomorrow the mirror will run a story about english clubs never starting any english players in their sides, never signing english juniors and 'johnny foreigner' keeping talented english players out or english academies and demanding the FA or FIFA stiffen up their 'crazy' rules.

In their eyes he is english...so that'd be why they are on his side

 

[dibo]

imagine if it were kofi danning we were talking about and he had an english father...

 

[Paolo]

imagine if it were kofi danning we were talking about and he had an english father...

"them 'types' are ruining English football"