Difficult and Thorny Issue

[midfielder]

There is no easy answer to this ... the exemption makes sense...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/13/2741759.htm

FIFA blocks Aussie kids' goals
By Michael Vincent for AM



Posted November 13, 2009 10:25:00
Updated November 13, 2009 13:11:00


Reece Caira still can't play even after his family sold up and moved to England to live. (Supplied)
Video: Extended interview with John Boultbee (ABC News)
Audio: Interview with Phil Caira (ABC News)
Audio: Soccer success in balance (AM)
Related Story: Recent ruling from Court of Arbitration for Sport

Related Link: FIFA regulations on the status and transfer of players

The future success of the Socceroos hangs in the balance unless Football Federation Australia (FFA) can convince the sport's governing body FIFA to changes its rules.

That is the message from the Professional Footballers Association and the families of junior footballers.

As it stands, promising under 18-year-old Australian players must get a transfer certificate to play for the best clubs in the world but some juniors are being left out in the cold.

Tim Cahill, Harry Kewell and many others left home as juniors and signed up to play for English clubs.

But now the FFA is supporting a FIFA rule that blocks international transfers of under-18s unless they move with their families for non-football reasons.

Phil Caira is the father of Reece - a 16-year-old who was overlooked by the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) and the local youth league.

But after his family sold up and all moved to England, he was offered a scholarship at the academy of Aston Villa, one of England's biggest clubs.

But without a transfer certificate, he cannot play in any official matches.

"We just can't understand why, why they would stop someone progressing to achieve their full talent," Mr Caira said.

"Australia is the only country that is causing this problem and there is no pathways in Australia for players to progress.

"There's only 28 spots at the AIS. That's it for the thousands of kids that are playing and yet they're discriminating against these boys and holding them back."

But FFA's head of national teams and football development, John Boultbee, disagrees.

"Whilst FIFA has rules prohibiting under-18 transfers for reasons of what they see as exploitation, we abide by those rules, but we also think that the best development and the best for most, not all, but most players is to get established in Australia before heading overseas too young to get developed," he said.

And that is where the problem lies. Some juniors are being encouraged to go to Europe and get top-tier training, while others are being actively discouraged or simply blocked.

Critics claim the FFA is just applying the letter of the law because of its World Cup bid.

With hundreds of young players training to reach the top of their game, the Professional Footballers Association wants a compromise.

It says players under 18 years old should be allowed to go to only top-tier clubs in the six major European leagues, where not only will they get training and match play, but guarantees of a good education.

"There's a great risk that Australia's international football competitiveness will suffer, quite simply from the reason that our talent pool will be too small," CEO Brendan Schwab said.

"We'll be relying on between 20 and 30 players a year to produce a generation of international success in comparison with our international counterparts, which produce thousands of players annually."


New exemption

But there is a chance things may soon change. A recent ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport has opened the door for a new exemption to allow transfer certificates.

"An exemption where the national body, such as Football Australia, has a contract or arrangement with a club in Europe that has a solid development program surrounded by appropriate education programs, now that's something we'll look into, it's only just reared its head," Mr Boultbee said.

"Where there is an exemption allowed by FIFA to their rules, we'll apply it."

That may help the next generation of Socceroos but it will not come in time for Reece Caira.

His father says even if his son makes it to the highest levels of his sport, he doubts he will ever play for Australia.

"Why would he rush home now if he was offered a spot to represent Australia with the way they've treated him?" Mr Caira said.

"He's going to hold a grudge against them for a long time."

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Bullshit. 
Maybe makes sense to help protect the Copa Sudamericana...
or say in Africa or such...

But to "Help protect from exploitation" young talented Aussies who willingly want to play and develop in Europe and have the rare ability to do so - is just a clear injustice that severely limits our youths development options and effectively shoots our near future socceroos in the foot.

In 15 - 20 years, when" hopefully" our league is full of dollars, well established, and provides multiple pathways to a world class competitive level of football for our youth... THEN, then... the application of this rule could serve its purpose.

ATM, however this will only damage our depth and development.

Players will always want to go to where they feel the best opportunity is for them. If they're good enough to get picked up by one of the worlds top clubs, then they certainly deserve the better opportunity that they can currently provide.

I shudder to think if Harry or Tim had there hands forced in this regard.

No wonder Phil is pissed. Shameful position to be in for a player of real talent that has managed to create the opportunity that Reece has for himself. And to think that one of the reasons he's restricted is because his family backed him to the hilt by moving OS to be with him.

For what its worth.... I sincerely hope Reece does progress to the highest level and one day, is called to play for Australia...
And that he does play.

Not for the F#ing FFA.
But for the people and country of Australia and sticks it up the FFA. Best way a player can make a difference and prove a point, is always on the park with his boots on. Timmy Cahill style.

 

[elevated position]

Ah smacks of ozzie sports politics at its best.
A lot of young players would be forced to go overseas to further their careers simply because they dont make certain squads. Dont make the squads and locally the odds will be stacked against you. Not too many park footballers goto higher levels.
Sometimes however some players (parents)think way too far ahead of their current ability.
This family as they say wont be laying out the welcome mat for the FFA so they could imigrate get the kid playing and if he then gets a call up then do what they please. 

 

[midfielder]

Bullshit. 
Maybe makes sense to help protect the Copa Sudamericana...
or say in Africa or such...

But to "Help protect from exploitation" young talented Aussies who willingly want to play and develop in Europe and have the rare ability to do so - is just a clear injustice that severely limits our youths development options and effectively shoots our near future socceroos in the foot.

In 15 - 20 years, when" hopefully" our league is full of dollars, well established, and provides multiple pathways to a world class competitive level of football for our youth... THEN, then... the application of this rule could serve its purpose.

ATM, however this will only damage our depth and development.

Players will always want to go to where they feel the best opportunity is for them. If they're good enough to get picked up by one of the worlds top clubs, then they certainly deserve the better opportunity that they can currently provide.

I shudder to think if Harry or Tim had there hands forced in this regard.

No wonder Phil is pissed. Shameful position to be in for a player of real talent that has managed to create the opportunity that Reece has for himself. And to think that one of the reasons he's restricted is because his family backed him to the hilt by moving OS to be with him.

For what its worth.... I sincerely hope Reece does progress to the highest level and one day, is called to play for Australia...
And that he does play.

Not for the F#ing FFA.
But for the people and country of Australia and sticks it up the FFA. Best way a player can make a difference and prove a point, is always on the park with his boots on. Timmy Cahill style.

My comment was directed at Australia not the FIFA policy...

On the Austrlian issue ... agree ... accept this kid did not make any of the rep squads ...

If you don't make any of the main squads and you try out then you go overseas and make itwhat is wrong with that..

Timmy Cahill could not make the Marconic nor Olympic squad that is why he went overseas in the first place that is how he proved his point with his boots using your example.

What do you do if a player does not get picked by local squads and is picked by Man U at 17.. On the other side is Fozzie and co always saying our coaching is crap and our leaguge crap almost saying go overseas.

Reece did not get picked so is he to play park football with poor coaching and further lesson his chances...

It is not easy I think the excemption rule is a kinda middle ground..

 

[dibo]

What horseshit, really. There's a FIFA rule. The FFA's applying it. The family is saying that they're only applying it because of the WC bid, but that's their spin on it.

The FFA says that they'll apply an exemption where and if they can. They're not acting out of either spite or self-interest, they're following the rules.

Just because this family has the means to move lock stock and barrel overseas to pop this kid into the AVFC academy doesn't mean that the FFA should flagrantly breach FIFA regulations to suit them.

For every Harry Kewell and Tim Cahill you've also got a David Carney, a Nick Carle and a Mile Jedinak - players who went overseas too early with very little success and who had to come back and establish themselves here to get going. Worse, you've got the Nick Rizzos and Jamie McMasters. Boultbee's right - players should develop here.

 

[Jazzie]

I've never seen Reece play, so I can't comment on his ability. However the question still arises ... if he is such a potentially great player, why wasn't he picked up by one of the sports institutes? I'm not casting doubt on his ability, just would really like to know your thoughts.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Agree Jazie

There are enough scouts/trials etc from HAL and various Institutes of sport to have a look at the kid and decide to give him a go.

There is more than just AIS to pick from

 

[grendel]

I have seen Reece play and he certainly possesses talent and he certainly loves his football. 

My opinion is that the FFA have chosen the wrong person to use as an example.  As I understand it both Caira parents are British citizens and have every right to move to UK if they wish.  Naturally they would take their children with them and expect them to have British citizenship by descent or registration.  There may be a whole host of reasons why a family might move from Australia to UK, football being only a small one.  Even if it were the main reason, FFA and Fifa would have extreme difficulty in proving it when, like this family, the entitlement to move and live/work in the UK is wholly theirs. 

It therefore seems that the football authorities are exercising undue interference in this family's life in order to make a point.  They are also infringing the rights of Reece to play sport and join an association, surely not the sort of image they wish to portray?

I say they should pick on someone who is being genuinely exploited and not Reece, whose career is being hampered by their overzealous bureaucratic views....

 

[scottmac]

overzealous bureaucratic views....

Don't see how upholding FIFA's law = that??? They should gripe to FIFA, not take out petty revenge on the FFA because thier son was regarded by the AIS as being not the right boy for an academy spot.

 

[grendel]

overzealous bureaucratic views....

Don't see how upholding FIFA's law = that??? They should gripe to FIFA, not take out petty revenge on the FFA because thier son was regarded by the AIS as being not the right boy for an academy spot.

I don't think the issue is lack of selection by the AIS.  It comes down to FFA enforcing a statute that infringes on the rights of the family to move to England and for the son to take up a career.  I may be wrong, but surely the prohibition on international transfer would even prevent him from playing for a local football club over there, because the FFA would not give him a release?

 

[dibo]

How are they making an example of this kid? They're following the rules. As they said, if a loophole is created through the CAS they're happy to utilise it, but in the meantime the rule is the rule. The 'right' to move to play football is subject to the rules of FIFA, as is everything else in FIFA. Why should the FFA break FIFA rules just because this kid and his folks know how to call a journo?

 

[midfielder]

What horseshit, really. There's a FIFA rule. The FFA's applying it. The family is saying that they're only applying it because of the WC bid, but that's their spin on it.

The FFA says that they'll apply an exemption where and if they can. They're not acting out of either spite or self-interest, they're following the rules.

Just because this family has the means to move lock stock and barrel overseas to pop this kid into the AVFC academy doesn't mean that the FFA should flagrantly breach FIFA regulations to suit them.

For every Harry Kewell and Tim Cahill you've also got a David Carney, a Nick Carle and a Mile Jedinak - players who went overseas too early with very little success and who had to come back and establish themselves here to get going. Worse, you've got the Nick Rizzos and Jamie McMasters. Boultbee's right - players should develop here.

Have to agree with Grendel they have choosen the wrong kid... he has not been picked in Australian rep teams ... the same as Timmy Cahill was not picked..He went overseas and  Aston Villa, offered him a spot and his parents are with him ... This is in no way similar to a 14 year old kid in Africa.

He is going with his parents and has an extended family in England... he did not make the Australian rep teams..

What are his options ... park association football... at this creditical stage of his development...

No he is going to a top club with knowing parents alone side him... Actually a question should be asked if Aston Villa select him he must be a reasonable player .. have our selectors missed him...

This is what makes the issue a thorny .. a one size fits all never works.. you must have exceptions and this should be worked on..

 

[dibo]

What part of *it's a FIFA rule* do you not get? It doesn't matter where he's from, or which f**king teams he has or has not been picked for. When we're talking about FIFA, we are talking about the rule applying universally. That means yes, one size does fit all.

 

[grendel]

How are they making an example of this kid? They're following the rules. As they said, if a loophole is created through the CAS they're happy to utilise it, but in the meantime the rule is the rule. The 'right' to move to play football is subject to the rules of FIFA, as is everything else in FIFA. Why should the FFA break FIFA rules just because this kid and his folks know how to call a journo?

The question should be : Why are they making an example of this kid?  He holds a British passport.  His family have full right of abode in UK and EU.  The only thing he is not allowed to do is play football.  You might as well say to kids like him, stop breathing.  To say they are only enforcing the law is not really good enough.  It doesn't make it good to enforce a bad law that discriminates.  The law was written to prevent unscrupulous agents from bringing young people to European countries to sign for clubs and then dumping them when they weren't signed, and it doesn't prohibit movement of kids within the EU under similar circumstances as Reece.  Reece and his family seem to be caught in a net that wasn't designed to catch fish like them and, according to the radio interview with his father, is not enforced by other National associations.

 

[midfielder]

What part of *it's a FIFA rule* do you not get? It doesn't matter where he's from, or which f**king teams he has or has not been picked for. When we're talking about FIFA, we are talking about the rule applying universally. That means yes, one size does fit all.

There no need to keep swearing at me , or maybe that makes your arguement better...

The one size fits all never works all laws have exceptions and to say that the law in this case is being fairly applied is wrong... FIFA themselves are suggesting there needs to be changes ... FIFA have suggested where the academy says they will continue there education is acceptable and as I understand it have already granted six clubs in Europe exempt status.

 

[FFC Mariner]

I would like to apply for a relaxation of our "one size fits all" tax laws please.

Not a compelling arguement is it?

 

[midfielder]

I would like to apply for a relaxation of our "one size fits all" tax laws please.

Not a compelling arguement is it?

LOL that is how I make my living proving tax laws are different ... and they are ... I could write a book .. but a simple example ... I guess you think there is one medi care levy of 1.5% ... depending on how you count things which in tax is always open to debate ... but anyway at least 12 different positions relating to the medicare levy...

 

[Forum Phoenix]

What part of *it's a FIFA rule* do you not get? It doesn't matter where he's from, or which f**king teams he has or has not been picked for...

Well it certainly matters in debate Dibo - and Midfielders points are highly relevant in this instance, especially when the rule was deliberately designed by FIFA to stop the mass exploitation of namely African kids. Not well to do bloody Anglo's with their families support behind them. And it is now instead being misused to try and force talented Australians to remain within Australia for all and any development purposes to suit the FFA's agenda.

"But HEY! Young Aussies have gone OS before and it hasn't worked out.
So from now on they should all stay here!"

What an absurd argument. Surely it requires no further rebuttal.
But above all, in this application, which is certainly not in the spirit of what the law was designed for, It is UNJUST.

All people should be able to pursue their career development, wherever opportunity and desire may take them.

Furthermore, the letter of the law that you are being so bloody minded in service of, has already numerous precedence for exemption Dibo, and actually, as it stands in the Caira case, can be overturned by the FFA tomorrow at their discretion if they so chose.

Reece is already living over there, in the academy, training with everyone else... and literally the only thing the FFA are actually doing with their entire position is preventing the kid form playing bloody games on the weekends.

How you cannot see the unjust lunacy of this is beyond me.

Laws are designed to help, they are rarely perfect and often will be amended as case or circumstances warrant over time so that they can continue to be as fair and effective as possible, there is already discussion in regard to this particular law right now... however in the mean time, a very talented and dedicated young Aussie is missing out on the fullness of the opportunity he has managed to create for himself and YES it's no f**king surprise that his family and him are upset about it.

Your its the law lump it attitude - is easily the most simplistic and bloody minded argument that I have ever heard you make on here Dibo.

For the record, Reece is one of those rare few physically who has the potential to perhaps do something very special with his football and may well be of the level to be a future socceroo.

Jaza - FFC - I'm not sure about the AIS situation in regards to Reece - he may have been overlooked though I sincerely doubt at the very least he wasn't on their radar. But I do know that his family were very keen on being back OS and obviously also thought it would be the best thing for Reece in all regards and that he received offers from not just the Villains, but 3 EPL teams.

My personal opinion is that the Caira's may well have been fairly uninterested in the AIS and Australian pathways and rightfully believed something better may have been on offer, and so now the FFA are having a tantrum and throwing their weight around. Their inconsistency in the application of their player exemptions makes little sense otherwise.

 

[viper2716]

The problem is the FFA had the power up to the 1st of october this year to release who they wanted .punch in the name Liam Jacabs in google , this boy had been trialing with liverpool  and at age 15 signed with them . He was granted a release in april and is currently playing in their youth squad. The IGA academy he was training with is run by Jim frazer , ex australian keeper and AIS coach , yet the Fifa rule the FFA is using against Reece stipulates no u18 transfers for football reasons . Yet the FFA gives him a release . 2 boys last week released to preston north end , yet only there on visas .

For some reason they picked out Reece to make an example and then release other kids in the mean time.

This case is with the Fifa players status commity at the moment and will blow up in the FFAs face .

 

[dibo]

The rule as I understand it is not merely to protect 'foreign' players from exploitation by European clubs, it's also to protect domestic products in those countries from being crowded out because the academies there are stocking up on wild geese from all corners of the world. It works in tandem with the proposed 6+5 rule.

I think it's a pretty sensible rule and aims to protect domestic development of players. There's not much point in us building up things like a national coaching curriculum and such if we're to then also let whoever wants to go OS go willy nilly. FIFA recognises this and has acted to protect national associations against clubs looking to stockpile talent.

As was mentioned in the original article though:

"An exemption where the national body, such as Football Australia, has a contract or arrangement with a club in Europe that has a solid development program surrounded by appropriate education programs, now that's something we'll look into, it's only just reared its head," Mr Boultbee said.

"Where there is an exemption allowed by FIFA to their rules, we'll apply it."

That says to me that the FFA feels they're bound by the rules. *If* the FFA has made a screwup in applying the rule one way in one circumstance and another in Caira's case, then I'm sure it will blow up on them and perhaps so it should.

I suspect there's more to this than we're hearing - we're only really hearing information from the horse's mouth on one side of this (*waves to Viper*) so I'm sceptical at best.