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A-League Expansion

Lowlander

Well-Known Member
I think for now it is all about building what we have and getting more bums on seats, I do believe that when the TV rights contract is up for renewal you will see movement from the FFA. Networks bidding for the TV rights will be making their own demands of the FFA to expand the league assuming the contracted sums are significantly higher.
 

Big Al

Well-Known Member
Sorry Dibo wrote a big piece in reply but lost it because timed out while working. Bugger

Yes I agree to disagree but also enjoy the debate
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
Regarding expansion in Tasmania and how it could be done, not if or when it should be done.

There is some debate as to whether a Tasmanian HAL team should be based in
either Hobart or Launceston. I have read cases for both individually but not
at the same time.
As I understand it there is some rivalry between these two cities. Perhaps the
smart thing to do would grant a licence to both at the same time to leverage off
this rivalry. It could well be a factor driving increased attendance, both from
locals supporting their team against their state rivals and easy away travel for
derby fans.

Imagine if Heart had formed at the same time as Victory. Melbourne would be split
between red and blue. The derby/rivalry would have multiplied attendance from day
one. Also taking last years crowd average and splitting it 50/50 both teams would
have crowds over 15,000. Healthy. Heart would probably not have the poor attendance
it has now.

I think this might be a good way to expand the HAL and include Tasmania in a
national competition. It just depends on the appetite for football there.

Thoughts?
 

eenfish

Well-Known Member
Heart have been an abject failure in Melbourne.

Relocate them to Tassie.

Can't do any worse

Their derbies bring 40k+, if Heart give Cashmere John the boot and hire someone who knows what they're doing, considering the quality of some of their players, they'll have the on field success that will bring the followers. If they played as good as Victory, their crowd average could potentially double.
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
midfielder said:
VicMariner

Tassie is way to small .... I cannot see crowds above 10K... and the AFL will react and start putting heaps of games down there ...

Have a read of http://leopoldmethod.com.au/in-sear...alysis-on-the-a-league-business-model-part-1/ read and look at part two and some other things on the site ...
Yes I have read those articles. Leopoldmethod is one of the better football sites IMO.

In the first line of my post I said How not if or when.
I understand ATM crowds would be low and therefore the next phase of expansion should not include Tasmania.
What I was driving at was, IF the FFA decided to tackle Tassie what would be a good way to go about it. I think the two teams at once concept could be good and that was the core idea of my post unfortunately no one has addressed that. Two teams with a natural, preexisting rivalry would be a crowd multiplier.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
I don't think Tassie is a bad idea, and in my earlier post about break-even crowd numbers I showed that the break-even crowd is on the way down.

Expansion is clearly off the table until the next TV deal, but if we're in a position to add more quality content and the expansion clubs are viable, then we're set to expand rapidly.

We know that the talent base is now pretty bloody deep - the kids coming through are more often showing up the older guys than being shown up, and that will only continue.

In no particular order we can look at Gold Coast, Townsville, Canberra, Wollongong, Tassie (one or two - I still think there are big issues to work through there, not least on facilities!), additional Sydney/Melbourne sides...

Hell, if the clubs are self-supporting, we could look at Sunshine Coast, Geelong and maybe even additional sides in Perth or Adelaide.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine that by 2025 or so (when the A-League is 20 years old) we might have 20 clubs and the potential to run true promotion and relegation and build a true pyramid.

A-League 1
A-League 2
NPL 1
NPL 2
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/league-expansion-hold-until-2017

de Bohun:
"We’ve said openly that’s its proven (two A-League teams in one city)
"Markets like Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide you’d have to contemplate. It’s certainly on the agenda."

Looks like they want derbies and will saturate the big cities before the likes of Wollongong and Canberra get a team.
I can see Brisbane working (Ipswich maybe) but Adelaide would be difficult and Perth looks very hard.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
In Brisbane, you could bring Strikers in and play on the north vs south thing - Perry Park vs Richlands. They could still play out of the same grounds, but you'd look to provide a defining separation between the two.

In Perth, you can do Perth vs Freo.

In Adelaide, there's a north vs south thing as well.

For all of them, it's a matter of manufacturing the rivalry and trying to bring out new support rather than cannibalise. Adelaide's probably the hardest because United was all about harnessing both City and West's support and getting them behind one badge.
 

eenfish

Well-Known Member
Adelaide and Perth are both too small to truly have 2 teams. Look at Melbourne, true support for Heart never eventuated until City bought up and brought in Villa. Two teams only works in Sydney because SFC was set up with a deliberate shunning of West Sydney which just so happens to be the most populated area in Australia as well as a massive footballing heartland, go figure why Wanderers have been so successful.

My point is, Wollongong, Canberra, Tassie, are (in my opinion) better options.

But hey, to be quite honest, A-League should have a greater overhaul than just expand to 12. I reckon 14, for two seasons, then create a second division of 14 teams with top teams from the NPLs and start pro/rel. But that is a pipe dream and will never happen. Even expansion will be slower than it needs to be.
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
As someone said on 442 - when Australia has a population of 40- 50 million, most of them will cram along the east coast (Brisbane to Melbourne) due to weather and water availability. So FFA need to do some long term planning.. based on regions and future population increase.


My crystal ball 20 year plan - maybe pie in the sky stuff
2017 -
HAL
12 teams - 33 rounds - 198 games plus finals
Wollongong
SW Sydney (need new stadium Liverpool) - but can start at Cambelltown - that whole area around Badgery's Creek, Liverpool and Campbelltown will be a major growth area.

NPL Australia

Alongside starting from 2017 introduce a NPL Australia level above the NPL state leagues. This would be the de-facto A2 League. Travel costs could be paid for by the FFA and this could be a way for places like Tassie, Darwin, Sunshine Coast, Coffs Coast, Geelong, Gold Coast. North Queensland, Brisbane 2, Canberra, Adelaide 2 and Perth 2 to get started.

2021
- go to 16 teams true home and away. 30 round - 240 games plus finals
Brisbane 2 - new stadium around Springfield
Canberra - City based stadium proposed at the moment
and 2 of
North Queensland
Geelong
Adelaide 2
Perth 2

2025

Another 2 teams to take it to 18 teams. 34 round - 306 games games plus finals
Proper A2 League launched with (smaller) salary cap support from the broadcast deal.

2034
- current licenses run out. New licenses written to allow proper promotion and relegation.
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
why SW sydney? wsw already play some games (w-league & some nyl) @ cambelltown stadium

Basically to claim the territory. That is an area that will grow with the major housing development and with Badgerys Creek airport being built. Also with Wollongong, SFC and WSW all close it makes for a lot of rivalries.
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
This is an interesting article: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...iths-sportingbet-stadium-20141007-10rjw5.html
Note that he says "... the club will likely bring A-League football to Penrith for the first time, where they can service up to 50per cent of their membership base located in the far west of Sydney." So WSW have *already* got huge numbers of members in what would have been the northern parts of a second Western Sydney team area?
FWIW it's 36 klms from Pirtek to Panthers, it's 75 klms from CCS to NSO and 76 klms from CCS to Brookie Oval. And the travel is easier to Panthers, what with the M4 etc.
We actually have friends around St. Clair who are WSW fans and members and I thought they were in the minority, but it seems I am wrong. No bloody wonder they have such a large membership, they are probably drawing from the areas bounded by North Rocks/the Hills District/Richmond, Penrith and the Blue Mountains, Campbelltown, Liverpool to Parramatta. That's a bloody huge catchment!

Come on FFA, get that second team happening in greater SW Sydney before it's too late to get fans to shift their allegiance from WSW. And Governments note, we want a new stadium closer to Campbelltown, not an expansion of the existing Panthers facility.

EDIT: Correction, I meant to say Cabramatta, not Campbelltown for a new stadium. There was talk of Macquarie Fields? Anyway somewhere around that area.
 
Last edited:

dibo

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see teams in Penrith and the south west. If Panthers want to see a superclub, they can build a bid. I can see the Doggies doing similar.

For what it's worth, I could see a (more ambitious and wealthy) CCM doing the reverse and trying to get Central Coast Mariners into the NRL and sidestepping the Bears (who are really someone else's team). If we had an indoor arena of ~5k capacity they could try for NBL, WNBL and netball teams too, all carrying the brand, sharing marketing, membership, sports science, and other resources... Could operate the venues with ability to balance scheduling between all 'tenants' and still have room to host entertainment events, concerts etc.

Imagine Adcock Park as a facility with an indoor arena, a baseball field up to ABL standards, a cricket/AFL oval with a grandstand big enough for first class games (i.e. not all that big!).

Might need to have an umbrella organisation - something like the Central Coast Leagues Club - to pull it all together. Probably a discussion for another thread.
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see teams in Penrith and the south west.
I think the trick is going to be to try and expand into the greater western areas of the Sydney basin in a manner that does allow two (or more?) new teams each with it's own population catchment area, allowing some degree of financial viability. Also not ruling out expansion into the far southern suburbs, Sharks territory. That would give, say, 3 new teams. And then there's the North Shore and the Northern Beaches/Suburbs ?

If Panthers want to see a superclub, they can build a bid.
Didn't Panthers do an unsuccessful bid for a VFL license before GWS?

I can see the Doggies doing similar.
Bully for them .;)

( I'll do a bit of a response to your lateral thinking in "Other Stuff" )
 

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