Mariners Squad - HAL 13 - 2017- 2018

[Rowdy]

Given the round of 32 stretches over like 4 wks it could probs start a month later and compress it into 2 wks.

THIS! for sure.
HAL teams that play their FFA Cup game in the 4th week have a distinct advantage over those playing in weeks 1, 2 & 3.

That being that they have anywhere between 1-3 weeks of additional pre-season training &/or match fitness ..... which subsequently increases their odds of progressing through the Rnd of 32.

 

[scottmac]

THIS! for sure.
HAL teams that play their FFA Cup game in the 4th week have a distinct advantage over those playing in weeks 1, 2 & 3.

That being that they have anywhere between 1-3 weeks of additional pre-season training &/or match fitness ..... which subsequently increases their odds of progressing through the Rnd of 32.

but then you've got the npl teams at the pointy end of their season. Wht should they be disadvantaged to cater for a league teams?
It could be solved by concurrent seasons but that's never going to happen

 

[Rowdy]

PJ's only suggesting pushing back the start of Rnd of 32 by 2 weeks. If the FFA compress Rnd32 from the current 4 weeks into 2 weeks, that balances out the 2 week push back.

NPL teams will always be at the pointy end of their season either way, the above suggestions by others pushes the FFA Cup GF back further which helps both HAL & NPL teams.

State Leagues could be forced to also help their respective member teams who've qualified for the Qtrs/Semi/GFinal with some scheduling reshuffling if need be (it's not going to effect every NPL competition in Aust).

If an NPL team makes it through to the FFA Cup GFinal, which would be after their respective NPL competition has finished, so as to not disadvantage them through lack of games - NPL teams that lost in semi/qtr final could be compelled to provide 'friendlies' as a condition of participating in the FFA Cup. (the FFA covers costs for travelling NPL teams as it is now, so would also for these friendlies)

 

[pjennings]

PJ's only suggesting pushing back the start of Rnd of 32 by 2 weeks. If the FFA compress Rnd32 from the current 4 weeks into 2 weeks, that balances out the 2 week push back.

NPL teams will always be at the pointy end of their season either way, the above suggestions by others pushes the FFA Cup GF back further which helps both HAL & NPL teams.

State Leagues could be forced to also help their respective member teams who've qualified for the Qtrs/Semi/GFinal with some scheduling reshuffling if need be (it's not going to effect every NPL competition in Aust).

If an NPL team makes it through to the FFA Cup GFinal, which would be after their respective NPL competition has finished, so as to not disadvantage them through lack of games - NPL teams that lost in semi/qtr final could be compelled to provide 'friendlies' as a condition of participating in the FFA Cup. (the FFA covers costs for travelling NPL teams as it is now, so would also for these friendlies)

Taking my previous post and adding in the current NSW and National NPL Dates as well

FFA Cup R32 should start 2 weeks later and the HAL should start 1 week later. On the October FIFA date stage a double header with a Socceroo Friendly and the FFA Cup Grand Final. Most HAL squads are only getting close to complete by 26th July - it is too early, an extra 2 weeks will help the HAL teams and concluding earlier will help any lower division team getting through.

Picking up your rescheduling point Rowdy their might need to be a bit of wriggle room in the two weeks if the Round of 32 for teams playing on the 19th and 20th August. Once again the only extra dates are in bold.

Using this year as an example the
FFA R32 should be starting on 8th and 9th August concluding on 15th and 16th August.
NSW NPL Elimination Final 19th August
NSW NPL Qualifying Final 20th August
FFA R16 should be on 22nd and concluding on 23rd August.
NSW NPL Semi-Final 1 26th August
NSW NPL Semi-Final 2 27th August
NSW NPL Preliminary Final 3rd September
NSW NPL Grand Final 10th September
FFA QFs should be on 12th and concluding on 13th September
National NPL Quarterfinals 16th and 17th September
FFA SFs should be on 19th and concluding on 20th September
National NPL Semi-Final 1 23rd September
National NPL Semi-Final 2 24th September
National NPL Grand Final 30th September
FFA CUP Grand Final and Socceroo Friendly on 7th October

 

[dibo]

FFA Cup R32 should start 2 weeks later and the HAL should start 1 week later. On the October FIFA date stage a double header with a Socceroo Friendly and the FFA Cup Grand Final. Most HAL squads are only getting close to complete by 26th July - it is too early, an extra 2 weeks will help the HAL teams and concluding earlier will help any lower division team getting through.

Using this year as an example the
FFA R32 should be starting on 8th and 9th August concluding on 15th and 15th August.
FFA R16 should be on 22nd and concluding on 23rd August.
FFA QFs should be on 12th and concluding on 13th September
FFA SFs should be on 19th and concluding on 20th September
FFA CUP Grand Final and Socceroo Friendly on 7th October

The only extra dates are in bold.

Or perhaps the A-League season should start earlier - work backwards from when we want to finish, allow for international breaks, etc., and we're probably starting late August. That should mean we're in pre-season earlier too.

But the fundamental issue is still NPL and AL seasons being out of sync.

 

[pjennings]

Or perhaps the A-League season should start earlier - work backwards from when we want to finish, allow for international breaks, etc., and we're probably starting late August. That should mean we're in pre-season earlier too.

But the fundamental issue is still NPL and AL seasons being out of sync.

That is true. However, we could start after the October FIFA date, have no real split rounds, instead using the November FIFA date only for deferred or brought forward games due to ACL commitments. That way you would still finish in around May 19th.

If as mooted (however unlikely) we went to 12 teams next season the finish date would still only be May 25th. When we got to 14 teams you might have an extra week of finals but would finish earlier as you would have less home and away rounds.

Now if you really want to muddy the waters - what about a time aligned Second Division, then they would be weaker against the HAL first division and unlikely to beat them, but vulnerable to the non-aligned lower tier clubs.

 

[bikinigirl]

. there is a lot of talk about the FFA cup in this thread ... but i would like to just bring it back to the squad for a bit

. there are three players in particular whose positions intrigue me at the moment ... and i wonder what Okon's plans are for them in the up-coming season

. Budgie, Bingers and Rosebud ... the last season appears to have caused a negative effect on their standing in the view of many fans. if you will indulge me with - what is likely to be several consecutive posts - i'd like to address them each in separate posts. please forgive me if my recollection of events is not all that accurate ... but if it is dissimilar to yours i'd be interested to know your view

 

[bikinigirl]

. there is a lot of talk about the FFA cup in this thread ... but i would like to just bring it back to the squad for a bit

. there are three players in particular whose positions intrigue me at the moment ... and i wonder what Okon's plans are for them in the up-coming season

. Budgie, Bingers and Rosebud ... the last season appears to have caused a negative effect on their standing in the view of many fans. if you will indulge me with - what is likely to be several consecutive posts - i'd like to address them each in separate posts. please forgive me if my recollection of events is not all that accurate ... but if it is dissimilar to yours i'd be interested to know your view

Budgie

. as the local kid come good, he had a blinding start to last season (much like his speed) and at a time where i think he was still closing out his HSC. as the season continued he appeared to be less effective, which many people attributed to him being found out as a player with speed and only speed who was very easily pushed off the ball

. while this is partly true - i think there are a couple of other factors which may have been overlooked by people: fatigue in a young player transitioning to full pro while still trying to develop their football and their body ... and ... the change in the team around him

. with regard to the team around him ... he started the season with a midfield of Powell, Monty and Tavares supporting him. by the time that his form started to drop Monty was the only player of those three left and his role had changed. early on, Monty was playing higher up the park with Tavares in behind ... and i believe it was Monty that was providing the through balls which Budgie was benefiting from. with the disappearance of Tavares, Monty was forced further back and this also coincided with Powell being replaced by Fabio who preferred to run the ball himself

. as the season continued Budgie was required to come inside to receive the ball - typically with a player at his back and was simply no match for bigger and more experienced players in most cases. he was replaced with Appiah who is just as fast but physically stronger and even if he lost possession was strong enough to continue to challenge for the ball immediately after

. for the upcoming season with a brand new midfield ... what should be our best ever, ball-playing midfield ... the situation would be a different one for Budgie i believe. we should be back in a position to play those balls through the defense for him to capitalise on. i didn't see any of the games the kiddie socceroos played in the recent tournament but apparently he played well

. if we can play to his strengths rather than trying to improve his game 'live' against the 'big boys', the confidence that should provide may help him to improve his game as both his professionalism and strength develop

 

[bikinigirl]

. there is a lot of talk about the FFA cup in this thread ... but i would like to just bring it back to the squad for a bit

. there are three players in particular whose positions intrigue me at the moment ... and i wonder what Okon's plans are for them in the up-coming season

. Budgie, Bingers and Rosebud ... the last season appears to have caused a negative effect on their standing in the view of many fans. if you will indulge me with - what is likely to be several consecutive posts - i'd like to address them each in separate posts. please forgive me if my recollection of events is not all that accurate ... but if it is dissimilar to yours i'd be interested to know your view

Bingers

. poor Josh seems to have been almost universally condemned recently as 'not good enough' which frustrates me. i remember in our 'worst season ever' he did alright when some Irish bloke had himself suspended ... but i can't even remember seeing Bingham play as a striker last year. he did feature occasionally off the bench, but was always brought on to the wing ... and he isn't a winger

. i was disappointed towards the end of last season when a certain Irish striker seemed to be, lets say ... below his best - and Josh still couldn't get a run up front. obviously Okon saw enough of him to offer another contract ... but I feel he was being kept off the park in a misguided attempt to try to retain that other bloke for another season. all of which seems to have effected Bingham's development

. from what i saw of the pre-season games at Pluim i reckon Josh has been told this is his 'big chance', he has to show that he 'wants it' or it could be the end of him ... and before the Spaniard is up to speed he is pushing hard - but i think he has been pushing too hard. it appeared to me that he wanted it so bad he was trying too hard, trying to force the issue ... and maybe he needs to take a deep breath, relax and rely more on his training and instincts

. in those games at Pluim he was very aggressive but i also saw him make some well timed runs that were often let down by the wingers inability to play the right ball at the right time. which, as a little aside, brings me to Pain - he has become the most frustrating of our players for me to watch ... a lot of running, a lot of calling for the ball but not a lot else. OK so he does draw a fair bit of attention, but all his effort leads to very little but frustration (including his own ) and he often ends up dispossessed, lying on his belly or giving away a freekick (sometimes all three at once)

. i was quite pleased to hear that josh had scored during the 'closed' game against 'them up the road' and i think he could respond better with a little less pressure to 'make the most of his opportunity'

 

[bikinigirl]

. there is a lot of talk about the FFA cup in this thread ... but i would like to just bring it back to the squad for a bit

. there are three players in particular whose positions intrigue me at the moment ... and i wonder what Okon's plans are for them in the up-coming season

. Budgie, Bingers and Rosebud ... the last season appears to have caused a negative effect on their standing in the view of many fans. if you will indulge me with - what is likely to be several consecutive posts - i'd like to address them each in separate posts. please forgive me if my recollection of events is not all that accurate ... but if it is dissimilar to yours i'd be interested to know your view

Rosebud

. this one is the most intriguing

. just over a year ago he was our Mariners Medal winner and clearly one of our best two players ... as an 18 year old kid in our worst ever performing team. many fans thought we would be lucky to keep him longer than 6 months

. since then we recruited a big name signing (Tavares) in his position to join our Club captain ... which put his position in doubt and once he returned from international young 'uns duty was slotted in as a centre back ... even when Tavares was no longer available. so, why was that? because he always wanted to play CB, because he was better than our other options at the time, becasue Okon thought it would develop his game or becasue Okon thought he wasn't up to the midfield position (after only recently re-signing him)? i tend to think it was partly to develop his game and partly because he was better than our other options

. but i think it was clear he was not a CB ... and although he did acquit himself very well (as a small, still young CB with no experience) he did make some critical errors which may not have occurred if even one of those three factors didn't apply

. fast forward to this pre-season ... and with the departure of Tavares and the retirement of Monty ... you would think that Rosebud would slot back into the midfield. then he was left out of the kiddie socceroos squad (maybe because he is not a CB and had not been playing in midfield?) and once more our recruitment seems to have been focused on the one position where we are already over-supplied ... defensive midfield. just over a month ago - even after the signing of Tommy - i could envisage a midfield of Tom, Rosebud and young Dingle. since then we have recruited both DDS and Brama

. so at best he would be looking for a spot on the bench (as either CB or DM) ... and people are now talking about him being played as a LB - on what basis? that he did alright at CB but it wasn't quite the answer so maybe try him somewhere else where he has no experience? it looks to have been a harsh 18 months for the kid but things could get tougher yet ... so what is the plan for Liam Rose?

 

[Psycho Chicken]

For what it's worth, I rate young Bingers and I think given a decent run and a bit of confidence he could become a very good player. Right now he must really be feeling the pressure to make the most of his opportunities. I'd love to see him bang in a few goals and start playing with confidence.

 

[Wombat]

For me Budgie has the most potential of the three. If Pain continues to frustrate I'd like to see Budgie and Hoole as our wingers. I'm not a fan of Appi although I appreciate his work rate.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Rosebud should be our LB but the idea was thrown up and discussed as to if he could play in that position.
There is a lot to like about Bingers but those two pre season games threw up a few question marks.

 

[Insertnamehere]

I like a big bustling old school centre forward (Viduka style) and bingers can be that (not Viduka level), but the other night he was 2nd rate to cairncross. He played the man far too often for a big bodied striker rather than playing the position and the ball. That is what I've seen as too regular occurrence. I think he was used last year as a winger, to actually act as an inside forward and cut in from width but didn't seem to be doing that.

 

[Insertnamehere]

As for rosebud. I think his best position is a deep laying playmaker, like Dortmund did with musti. But currently he probs won't get a lot of run on game time, so his next bet is versatility. We know he can pass and he's added a defensive element to his game so he's most likely to useful further back on the pitch. Do for mine he'll be a utility across the backline and central midfield. Unfortunately at 20/21? He should be starting games and owning a position.

 

[nebakke]

I like a big bustling old school centre forward (Viduka style) and bingers can be that (not Viduka level), but the other night he was 2nd rate to cairncross. He played the man far too often for a big bodied striker rather than playing the position and the ball. That is what I've seen as too regular occurrence. I think he was used last year as a winger, to actually act as an inside forward and cut in from width but didn't seem to be doing that.

I think it was all over the place, the way Bingers was played last season... Off the top of my head, I think he's been thrown in as a winger, a #10 and a FWD. But the one time he was given a good starting chance as a forward last season, everyone were quite excited about how well he did.

For mine I actually didn't think he did too much wrong during the FFA Cup game either... Certainly not stuff that everyone else didn't seem to do wrong as well... It was largely down to being afraid to get too physical in retaliation for Blacktown's physical game - so he didn't hold up and push back well enough. And for mine, i stand by my earlier comment that the yellow for the 'challenge' on the keeper was f*****g ridiculous - there was little danger derived from that whole situation.
Anyway - I thought he let himself be marked out of the game a bit and I think that was pretty much the story of the entire team... That is also one of my primary 'excuses' (to quote another thread) for not seeing the game as too much of a worrying factor yet...
Blacktown played a game that would have been stifled by the refereeing in the A-league, and I certainly think the boys could have handled it, had they been ready for it mentally... Clearly they weren't and that's probably on Paolo - hopefully he can get this stuff right when the season starts.

In the meantime, I think Bingers has more than earned his place ont he bench, and I'm hoping we'll see more of him than a single starting game this season tbh. Even if Asdrubal looks good

 

[Big Al]

Budgie had a lack of desire at the end of the season. The fact that Appiah was preferred effected him, showed how far he has to go and also credit to Appiah for taking his spot. When he came on as a sub he was horrible and made no impact.
The pressure of having to make a change, losing his position, fading physically and lack of supply all contributed IMO

He needs more ball control and defensively he just appeared scared of the bigger bodies. He seems a nice lad but lacks some white line fever.

Speed is not enough at the top.

 

[Big Al]

Bingers I like lot and looks up for it.

He started one game last season for 1 goal in it and busted his gut. Why Paulo wouldn't sub Roy is something only he knows and was a mistake. With Asdrubal being Unknown and needing prove himself I hope there is a bigger opportunity for him.

Bingers looks fit and hungry and has the ability.

I also think he has learnt a lot last year and he will hopefully play a big roll. He didn't even make the bench until Roy was out but was on there every game after.

He is not a winger.

Like all forwards supply is the issue. He got none at Blacktown and there are a few here who where unhappy with him. I think that is frustration in us losing. He just missed on a good run that was saved. Maid another run where a dink a ball slipped through had him open and he showed the disappointment at not getting it. Can't remember who didn't get it to him but was a mistake. He was heavily marked by Blacktown.

I expect a big year from him

I think he will have the biggest impact of the 3 and has the least opposition in his way

 

[Big Al]

Rosebud has been left behind. He will be CB or bench versatility as DM and CB.

Paolo just doesn't rate him as a mid. He moved him to CB at junior level before even having him at the club.

His defensive work also hasn't been physical enough at either DM or CB.

While he will benefit hugely from finally having quality teammates to complete against and learn it maybe the end of him.

I fear for him the most if he doesn't win the CB spot next to Baro.

 

[Big Al]

Paolo has made it clear, we need better quality and more experienced players. The young talent will not be given positions like they were previously, which is good and bad for them.

That said Rose can earn the CB spot

Budgie can get pains spot

And Bingers can earn the last 20mins of each game and maybe more if Asdrubal fails.

 

[pjennings]

Paolo has made it clear, we need better quality and more experienced players. The young talent will not be given positions like they were previously, which is good and bad for them.

That said Rose can earn the CB spot

Budgie can get pains spot

And Bingers can earn the last 20mins of each game and maybe more if Asdrubal fails.

I think this is closest to my view - especially the fact that with a more experienced squad many that were automatic choices will be struggle for game time and others that were fringe players will have to take their opportunities. . If our RW is not working Asdrubal can play RW as well so Bingers could end up in the middle that way as well.