The end is nigh - impending doom - Moss out etc thread

[sydmariner]

x 3

 

[shipwreck]

Who are the senior players that don't like Bosnar? My last count was Hutch, Rose and Monty.... everyone else is a kid.

 

[localpom]

Who are the senior players that don't like Bosnar? My last count was Hutch, Rose and Monty.... everyone else is a kid.

Reddy, Matty Simon i guess would also be counted as senior players. Not sure if any of them have any beef with Boz.

 

[dibo]

It's fair to say that he appears to be a big personality, and I'm not convinced he is anywhere near as compatible with our system as Zwaanswijk was. I'm not even sure that I wouldn't prefer someone like Beauchamp as our 'senior' defender.

Anderson hasn't set the world alight either though, and our CBs struggled all last year (following Sainsbury's exit) to get their shape sorted and get some rhythm.

I think that's why Pascoliero is in, so we get our shape back and play the ball some more, though his defensive skills are a little iffy. Maybe swap Anderson for Bosnar to see what happens, and leave Pascoliero in. Hard to know, but certainly CB is our weakest spot right now, with striker a close second.

 

[gull]

So the great thing is that this post:



...is now being treated on twitter as a source rather than rumour itself. Rumour becomes the source of rumour. Rinse and repeat.

Some people seem to take great delight in kicking rumours along without confirmation/denial etc. It doesn't mean they're true or that people spreading them don't have their own reasons. Rumours aren't always true, almost never tell the full story, people spreading them aren't doing it as a public service. What do *they* want from it?

Someone gets impatient with coach/style/results, gets half a whiff of something half true... Spreading them creates other problems though. *Perception* of crisis can be self-fulfilling, and people who are pissed off for their own reasons will be perfectly willing to believe it's true (*waves to Wombat*).

It was put to me that "people can think it's rainbows and lollipops or there is a problem", which I take to mean that unless you're credulous enough to believe any rumour going, you're in the rainbows and lollipops.

*Quick - believe this rumour or you're just a fool!*

f**k that.

I don't see a team or club in disharmony. Without seeing rumours posted on the net I'd have no reason whatsoever to think that's an issue. But there's always someone with a rumour 'for our information', bless their socks.

I don't know whether it's a desire to break news, to be the big man with the big tip, a feeling of being on the inside track for information or whatever, but f**k it makes it tiresome to be a fan sometimes.

You must agree that something isn't working? People on here in the off season were talking up our stability and how we should be more settled this year but in my opinion we're a shambles.

The three matches so far have been very poor, with bizarre team selections and no structure.

I normally try not to get caught up in this stuff but to me there is something majorly wrong, and a rumour posted here isn't to blame.

 

[gull]

Nicked this from 442 forum - seems kind of relevant here at the moment.

"For all the books written about football, for all the information available online, and for the closeness that it is still possible to feel to the players in some areas of the country, the fans will never really know how a player feels when he steps on and off the pitch, what it’s like to score, what it’s like to win a football match, and how it feels to have 80,000 people watching what you’re about to do with the ball.

The fans work all the hours that God sends so that they can spend part of their income on an expensive ticket to watch us play for the sum total of 90 minutes, and most of them aren’t overly bothered about any problems that a player may have outside of those 90 minutes. In fact, most of the fans I talk to, including many of my friends, believe that the right amount of money will remove any problem a footballer may have. While it is true that monetary problems are generally squashed in the womb, many of the other problems everybody has to deal with in everyday life persist. We’re not all that different.

And it isn’t really a surprise that some fans can’t get on board with that. The level of passion they feel for their local club will always evoke a sense of belonging that foreign players, in particular, should never be able to feel – unless a foreign player comes to the club and plays well, of course, then he becomes an adopted son. Football provides fans with a sense of passion like no other pastime I know of, and every now and again it blows up on all sides.

When Mark Viduka played for Middlesbrough he found himself – where the fans were concerned – in a tight spot. When things were going well he was their best hope for another season in the Premier League, but when things were going badly he was the unacceptable face of inflated footballers’ wages, paid with fans’ hard-earned money by a chairman in pursuit of exactly the same goal.

In one particular game, things – as you might expect with a club like Middlesbrough – were not going according to plan. The team were losing 0–2 to Aston Villa when Viduka was taken off at half-time. The announcement led to frustrated jeers by the home fans. I’ve seen it a million times before – it is the insatiable and totally irrational need for people who know next to nothing about football to reduce the game to a primeval and nonsensical rationale so as to have some flimsy foundation upon which to demonise their own come Monday morning. In short, the need for a scapegoat is as pressing as the need of an ex-teammate of mine to have sex with as many different women as possible.

As the tall Australian walked toward the side of the pitch the boos grew louder, until Viduka had taken his seat on the bench, where he was then faced with the fans abusing him from all sides. As the stadium erupted with all eyes on the centre-forward, Viduka, looking dead ahead as he sat on the bench, began to sing the Monty Python classic ‘Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life’, complete with the whistling. Needless to say, it didn’t go down well with the Riverside faithful.

When the game had finished and Middlesbrough had duly lost, the players made their way out to the car park. The players’ cars at Middlesbrough, for some inexplicable reason, are parked right opposite the main stand and protected by a waist-high, makeshift, metal fence, patrolled by two security guards. It isn’t that anybody is daft enough to try to steal the cars, it’s the fact that in Middlesbrough there isn’t a lot of money about and when the team loses a football match, the people don’t really want to be confronted with £100,000 sports cars 10 minutes after the final whistle of a game in which they have been played off the pitch.

At £60,000 a week, Mark Viduka was the highest earner at Boro at that time and, as he left the ground, he walked into a barrage of abuse from fans who had congregated around the metal barriers protecting the gleaming cars within.

As he walked into the enclosure, a group of fellas began to get very vocal and aggressive, before one rather portly gentleman did his best to bring about early onset cardiovascular disease by abusing Viduka and all he stood for at the top of his voice: “I pay your f**king wages, Viduka.” As he got to the car, Viduka put his bags down and started walking towards the four-foot-high metal fence a group of 30 or 40 fellas were pretending to have a great amount of difficulty in scaling.

“You pay my wages?” said Viduka, looking the biggest fella dead in the eye.

“That’s f**king right,” said the ringleader.


And with that Viduka extended his hand and said, “Fair play to you, mate. You must be one rich f**ker.”

And that’s when you know it’s time for everybody to go home without saying another word. Apparently, they still talk about it up at Boro.

The problem with a lot of fans is that they want to let off steam; they want to vent frustration. It’s in their blood, they can’t help themselves – they seem to get a serotonin rush from deriding others at football matches. In one of the best scenes from the film Fever Pitch, an Arsenal fan, an old boy, sat in a café and said, “They were f**king rubbish last year and they were f**king rubbish the year before. I don’t care if they’re top – they’ll be f**king rubbish this year too, and the year after that.”

That scene was shot to reflect the 1971 season, a year in which Arsenal won the double for the first time. At the end of his rant, the old boy turns to a kid enjoying his first-ever football match and says, “Here, have a look at the No8 this afternoon, John Samuels his name is. Remember his face, then, if you should happen to bump into him, tell him to sod off to Spurs.” And that, in a gloriously perfect scene, is how footballers understand football fans. As far as they’re concerned, we’re damned if we do and we’re damned if we don’t.

Some people are so stupid that they have no idea how stupid they are. Professor of psychology at Cornell University, David Dunning, argues that in order to know how good you are at something, it requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place – which means if you’re absolutely no good at something at all then you lack exactly the skills you need to know that you’re absolutely no good at it. Understand?

But don’t take my word for it. Dunning, and his accomplice at Cornell, Justin Kruger, were awarded the 2000 Nobel Prize in Psychology for their efforts and that carried a £1m reward. I could have proved their theory after just one trip to Middlesbrough, where expectation and reality are at least 10,000 light years apart. It’s difficult to tell exactly who is stupid. It’s at times like this that I feel extremely religious."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/06/the-secret-footballer-book-extract-fans-supporters/print

I don't understand why you posted this - please explain?

 

[MrCelery]

Who are the senior players that don't like Bosnar? My last count was Hutch, Rose and Monty.... everyone else is a kid.

Don't know about players, but I don't like the way he always seems to scream at his team mates when things go pear-shaped. Quite a few times I've seen him take it out on someone when the fault appears to be his. Can't be good for team moral and the so-called unique 'community spirit' the Club has.

By all means have a keen will-to-win, but there is a more professional way to deal with cock-ups than lambbasting your team-mates on national TV. Easy to say from the comfort of the armchair, of course!

 

[Capt. Awesome]

We couldn't have come away with a result last week.

We get a win or two and this all goes away. Players who have been benched need to suck it up and train hard.

 

[neverwozza]

I could be wrong but this feels like a "fans having a rant" thread and the article is about fans having a rant. I just find it funny how quickly people are to react to some bad results especially in context of how much we have punched above our weight in the past. Just imagine what it would be like to be a newcastle jets or perth glory fan. They have had to put up with season after season of our last three games.

 

[gull]

I could be wrong but this feels like a "fans having a rant" thread and the article is about fans having a rant. I just find it funny how quickly people are to react to some bad results especially in context of how much we have punched above our weight in the past. Just imagine what it would be like to be a newcastle jets or perth glory fan. They have had to put up with season after season of our last three games.

Ok, thanks.

I'm firmly in the "something is wrong big time" camp, and would love to be wrong. I don't see it as just a slow start to the season, and to me this is obvious watching the games. If that's having a rant then so be it.

 

[dibo]

You must agree that something isn't working? People on here in the off season were talking up our stability and how we should be more settled this year but in my opinion we're a shambles.

The three matches so far have been very poor, with bizarre team selections and no structure.

I normally try not to get caught up in this stuff but to me there is something majorly wrong, and a rumour posted here isn't to blame.

I agree something isn't working, but that's not the same as saying that I automatically believe a set of fantastic rumours.

We couldn't have come away with a result last week.

We get a win or two and this all goes away. Players who have been benched need to suck it up and train hard.

I disagree with the first bit - they scored from a cracker and a deflection, and we had our own chances. I'm not going to say we weren't second best, but we had our chances too. Ditto against Wellington.

Agree with the second. It's amazing what a win or two does for club harmony, inside and outside the dressing room, mostly because people stop pissing and moaning and get on with getting the next win.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

I agree something isn't working, but that's not the same as saying that I automatically believe a set of fantastic rumours.


I disagree with the first bit - they scored from a cracker and a deflection, and we had our own chances. I'm not going to say we weren't second best, but we had our chances too. Ditto against Wellington.

Agree with the second. It's amazing what a win or two does for club harmony, inside and outside the dressing room, mostly because people stop pissing and moaning and get on with getting the next win.

Sorry that was stupid auto correct. It should read 'could've ' We had few that definitely could have gone in on any other day.

 

[Roy Law]

If you really believe that the Mariners' dressing room with Bojic, Zwaanswijk, Bozanic and McBreen was all sweetness and light then you are being delusional.
Strong teams have strong personalities, it is the nature of the game.

 

[Wombat]

I don't think the problem is the players tbh.

It's Mossy and Sully overthinking a simple game and not have the guts to change what is a fail thus far.

I can see what they are trying to do.....but they don't have the cattle. Time to wake up and let go of Arnies apron strings.

 

[style_cafe]

If you really believe that the Mariners' dressing room with Bojic, Zwaanswijk, Bozanic and McBreen was all sweetness and light then you are being delusional.
Strong teams have strong personalities, it is the nature of the game.

I agree Roy but those strong personalities are held to account by a strong captain & a formidable coach.
I have no doubt about Mossy`s coaching ability but I am in favour of Monty wearing the armband.

I also have some doubt over Mossy`s signings, albeit I do not know what budget he has so I really can`t criticise that.
Which leaves us with one major point which seems to have everyone baffled "TEAM SELECTIONS"

Maybe before each game he could be interviewed on his thoughts behind his selections then have the interview played after the game.
Then again,that may make the situation worse!

 

[Bladesman]

Some of the best coaches have failed miserably when they have stepped in to be the gaffer. You only have to look at people like Brian Kidd and Steve Mclaren. Fantastic coaches but were unable to handle the man management side of things that a manager needs to have.

Unfortunately I can see the same with Mossy, fantastic coach who with the right manager like Arnold procured the results or with an assistant who is a great man manager may produce the results. They should have brought in an experienced no2 for mossy.

With regards to the dressing room split I don't claim to be in the know or even remotely connected so when the "rumours" reach me it means they must have spread a long way but even last year there was talk with regards to Bosnar not fitting in and causing issues in the dressing room.

We have been going 10 years and there has never been any mention of dressing room disharmony before in fact it has always been the exact opposite, even the players who moved on talked about the spirt and how the team was like a band of brothers.

The weejudas (I now become one of the fans the 442 article talks about along with most others on here) affair, Patrick's law suit (I believe he was increasingly respected by all who played with him and his former team mates would be upset by his treatment, this in itself could drive a wedge between players and manager) and now the talk of dressing room unrest coupled with what I have witnessed on the pitch from a commitment and fighting spirit suggest to me all is not right at the club.

Can this be fixed? Can't think of too many clubs where a manager has lost the dressing room and come out of it well.

 

[CCMFCUK]

Reading this from the other side of the globe does put me at a disadvantage on this topic and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... however sacking Moss now would be just like shooting ourselves in the foot... and for us then to be prepared to be at the foot of the table come round 27. Changing manger and for a new man to be a success sometimes takes some time and with the lack of depth in some areas of the squad would most likely be a problem, even if Moss has lost the players. CCM are not a club to splash the cash to have a new man at the helm, therefore Moss has to stay... String a couple of wins and solid results together and all this talk will disappear. And for players not turning up to training... they need a kick up the backside... getting paid to play sport!!... they need to be shown what lengths people go to to make ends meet!

I'm used to these situations following Wolves for ages... our fans want a new man every 45 mins of a game

 

[Bladesman]

Depending on how true the "rumours" are not sacking him could be like shooting ourselves in the foot if his management is undoing the culture of a tight dressing room.

 

[Ted]

Form an outsiders perspective I see it as Bosnar thinking he is better than any other player in the team and bigger than any club he plays for. I saw the lack of cohesion and respect from the backs at Pluim. Reddy and Bosnar, from what I could hear/see/witnessed during the game at Pluim have a mutual dislike for each other. Bosnar has this uncanny ability to isolate himself from his team mates due to arrogance and lack of respect. Even if you play in a team with your worst enemy, if you are on the same side with the same goal, you will work together with a degree of respect to reach that outcome.

Sorry not a fan....

 

[shipwreck]

Bosnar is the new scapegoat, this forum works fast. Good news for Hutch