What should be our starting eleven?

[dibo]

We're starting to look like a team that could play a traditional 4-3-3 for exactly the reason Alf Ramsay did it in '66 - we're short on wingers, but we've got a few options in the front third and we're overloaded in CM.

I think there's merit to a 4-3-3 with narrow centre and a really strongly defined separation of roles for 6, 8 and 10.

-------------------------------------------Reddy---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------1-----------------------------------------------------
---Roux-----------------Anderson-----------------------Bosnar------------------------------Rose----
----2----------------------3-----------------------------4----------------------------------5------
-----------------------------------------------------Hutchinson------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------6-----------------------------------------
----------------------Montgomery-------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------8-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------Caceres-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------10----------------------------------------------------
---------Mane-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fitz-----------
----------7--------------------------------------------------------------------------11------------
---------------------------------------------Duke--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------9----------------------------------------------------

​

Hutch is the guy sitting deeper to spread play. Monty is the guy to (as one of my teammates likes to say) c**t up the midfield and make it a horrible place to be for the Jets' playmakers, but also to provide a pivot between Hutch and Caceres.

Roux and Mane partner up as do Rose and Fitz - the idea being that the 7 and 11 can either try to press on (in which case the opposite 7/11 should pull in to the box as a second striker and open a channel for the opposite 2/5 to break) or tuck narrow (so the opposite 7/11 should press on and the same side 2/5 should break into the open channel).

We did this really well with the diamond back in the day, and it's a way of manufacturing width in a system where we don't really have it in midfield.

In defence, we're nuts if we ditch the 4-4-2 that has worked so well. The 7 and 11 drop alongside 6 and 8 and 9 and 10 stay high. As soon as we transition, 7 and 11 head to the sideline on halfway and create width to break quickly if possible.

EDIT: I don't know why the formatting hasn't worked...

 

[nebakke]

So start him instead of Trif, Monty, Mane or Fitz, but I think you need Hutch.

I like him and I think he's got talent, but I also think that it turned out to be a mistake to claim him as a CAM... For mine, he's done better at DM so I wouldn't be starting him in place of Trif, Mane or Fitz, so it'd have to be between him, Hutch and Monty. I do tend to agree with you about Hutch though, especially for the derby games, but I'm probably also favoring the tried partnerings... We've done Hutch-Monty and we've done Caceres-Monty haven't done Hutch-Caceres as much...
If I was to be entirely honest about it, I'd probably just run with Hutch-Monty but I also feel that we need to do our best to build for the future and so, we need to train the DMs somewhere...

 

[midfielder]

If we assume we will have two defensive mids, Monty is first pick and we have in Caceres & Liam Rose two talented ball playing DM's... Hutch may find it hard to crack a regular first team spot..

 

[dibo]

If we assume we will have two defensive mids, Monty is first pick and we have in Caceres & Liam Rose two talented ball playing DM's... Hutch may find it hard to crack a regular first team spot..

Why is Monty first choice? Why would Hutch be behind Caceres and Rose? I posted a few weeks back:

Funny that nobody has the captain starting. No rationale, but behind Monty, Caceres and even Trifiro.

Hutch says he's only got a season or two left (and after that if we don't have him on club staff in coaching or similar we are out of our minds) but I don't think anybody has earnt the right to start ahead of him yet.

Now we've got a 17 year old being listed ahead of Hutch? Crazy!

I've still not seen any rationale for Hutch not starting. It's just a foregone conclusion in people's minds, and I want to know what the thought behind it is, or whether people just don't like Hutch.

 

[Capt. Awesome]

We're starting to look like a team that could play a traditional 4-3-3 for exactly the reason Alf Ramsay did it in '66 - we're short on wingers, but we've got a few options in the front third and we're overloaded in CM.

I think there's merit to a 4-3-3 with narrow centre and a really strongly defined separation of roles for 6, 8 and 10.

-------------------------------------------Reddy---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------1-----------------------------------------------------
---Roux-----------------Anderson-----------------------Bosnar------------------------------Rose----
----2----------------------3-----------------------------4----------------------------------5------
-----------------------------------------------------Hutchinson------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------6-----------------------------------------
----------------------Montgomery-------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------8-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------Caceres-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------10----------------------------------------------------
---------Mane-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fitz-----------
----------7--------------------------------------------------------------------------11------------
---------------------------------------------Duke--------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------9----------------------------------------------------

​

Hutch is the guy sitting deeper to spread play. Monty is the guy to (as one of my teammates likes to say) c**t up the midfield and make it a horrible place to be for the Jets' playmakers, but also to provide a pivot between Hutch and Caceres.

Roux and Mane partner up as do Rose and Fitz - the idea being that the 7 and 11 can either try to press on (in which case the opposite 7/11 should pull in to the box as a second striker and open a channel for the opposite 2/5 to break) or tuck narrow (so the opposite 7/11 should press on and the same side 2/5 should break into the open channel).

We did this really well with the diamond back in the day, and it's a way of manufacturing width in a system where we don't really have it in midfield.

In defence, we're nuts if we ditch the 4-4-2 that has worked so well. The 7 and 11 drop alongside 6 and 8 and 9 and 10 stay high. As soon as we transition, 7 and 11 head to the sideline on halfway and create width to break quickly if possible.

EDIT: I don't know why the formatting hasn't worked...

Love it. Great formation!!

 

[midfielder]

D

I have huge respect for Hutch and said he will have to fight for his spot ... IMO Monty is the best DM we have I don't wish to write pages about it ... similar if I had to choose between Dutchie and Bosnar I would choose Dutchie but ask me to explain .. .. tis just what i see as the better player ...

Caceres and Rose are both ball playing creative type players and we need these type of players or at least one on the field... having two hard men like Monty and Hutch IMO is not as good a balance as a having either Caceres or Rose alongside ... What I saw of Rose in pre-season against I acknowledge state teams was very impressive ... I stand by what I said Hutch I think will have a real battle on his hands to hold a regular starting position... especially if Vernes takes a 10 role...

 

[shipwreck]

Is LIAM Rose related to Josh Rose?

Thought it might be another Griffiths scenario.

Hearing so many good things about this kid...

 

[justafan]

I believe Caceres performances last season earned him a spot in the starting 11. Either, as an AM or DM. He has shown he can play @ both. One of our best team performances I can remember from last season, was v MH @ AAMI with Caceres who started the game as holding with Monty, was then pushed up to AM after Kim came off injured while Hutch came on as DM. The game was 1 all, Caceres started pulling the strings,we dominated playing good possession football and we ended up winning 2-1 with Birnie scoring the second. I also remember that game as Hutch's best performance of the season. The last 20 mins formation was :

..............................Reddy.....................................

Dutch guy.........Zac.............Bosnar.............Rose

....................Monty...........Hutch( Caceres)......................

............................Caceres (Kim)....................................

............Birnie......................Duke ( Fitzy)........................

 

[sydmariner]

Is LIAM Rose related to Josh Rose?

Thought it might be another Griffiths scenario.

Hearing so many good things about this kid...

don't think so

 

[style_cafe]

I agree with Middy that Hutch will have a difficult time holding down a 1st team spot.
I also said that this time last year.

However, when we start the season with an F3 derby, I`d find it very difficult to leave him out of the first game.
In Hutch`s favour is his leadership, stability (cool under pressure), his passion & the respect that the players have for him.
I think what detracts from his game is his mistake rate, his limited passing range & his ability to blunt a quick counter attack with an inane pass back.

Hutch is a survivor though & if anyone is going to take his spot then they are in for a tough battle.
In saying that, I see Caceres as more of a threat to Kim as IMO Kim is still yet to prove he can handle the rigors of the A League.
Either way, it`s a good position that Mossy finds himself in.

 

[Wombat]

Why is Monty first choice? .......Because he is a better and more dynamic player. He is also a better tackler and has a vastly superior work rate.
Why would Hutch be behind Caceres and Rose? ...... Rose is a red herring but Caceras gets the nod as he can link play better and is creative, something we have been sorely lacking.

Now we've got a 17 year old being listed ahead of Hutch? Crazy!

I've still not seen any rationale for Hutch not starting. It's just a foregone conclusion in people's minds, and I want to know what the thought behind it is, or whether people just don't like Hutch.

...........Everyone loves Hutch as a person and as a leader, but hard decisions have to be made and we will struggle to win games unless we wise up.

You are a stats man Dibo.....what is our win ratio when hutch has been out injured or suspended in the last 3 years?

 

[Wombat]

I agree with Middy that Hutch will have a difficult time holding down a 1st team spot.
I also said that this time last year.

However, when we start the season with an F3 derby, I`d find it very difficult to leave him out of the first game.
In Hutch`s favour is his leadership, stability (cool under pressure), his passion & the respect that the players have for him.
I think what detracts from his game is his mistake rate, his limited passing range & his ability to blunt a quick counter attack with an inane pass back.

Hutch is a survivor though & if anyone is going to take his spot then they are in for a tough battle.
In saying that, I see Caceres as more of a threat to Kim as IMO Kim is still yet to prove he can handle the rigors of the A League.
Either way, it`s a good position that Mossy finds himself in.

Good post.

 

[bikinigirl]

I've still not seen any rationale for Hutch not starting. It's just a foregone conclusion in people's minds, and I want to know what the thought behind it is, or whether people just don't like Hutch.

. i think some people don't like hutch ... and i don't think he has really sold himself to the coast or the faithful in the last 10 years ... but i don't necessarily think that is the rationale (but may be the basis of some underlying prejudices)

. first and foremost i think it is the perception that he always passes backwards ... or slows the play down too much. personally i think it is because most see hutch and monty playing a very similar role in the team (not necessarily position either, but role). they both sit quite deep - it's in the title 'defensive midfielder' ... and we don't need two on the pitch together. most acknowledge monty as the better enforcer which means hutch needs to offer more creatively ... which he does ... but caceres probably offers even more in that regard

. we need balance and perhaps that is what people see in a monty/caceres partnership. hutch is almost the balance between these two ... so if we are to play two of the three as DMs he can be seen as the one to make way

 

[MagpieMariner]

Don't remember one Hutch back pass today, but I do remember quite a lot of forward ones.

 

[bikinigirl]

Don't remember one Hutch back pass today, but I do remember quite a lot of forward ones.

... and forward runs

 

[dibo]

Yeah, but haters gotta hate.

 

[pjennings]

My rationale

I want 2 strikers - so therefore 1 DM. I rate Monty over Hutch at DM

This is my team from the other thread, I probably would change Fitzy for Kim now and if fit Matty would come into calculations.

Hutch is first on the bench, He can cover DM, LM, SS, AM and probably LB. If we played 2 DMs then Hutch would be one of the 2.

------------------Reddy----------------
Roux-----Anderson ---Bosnar---Rose
---------------Monty------------------
Vernes--------------------------Kim
---------------Caceres---------------
---------Duke------Mane----------

Bench, Hutch, Trifiro, Fitzy,Poscoliero, Nash

 

[Wombat]

Now that is a decent looking set up.