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What *is* actually wrong with football?

dibo

Well-Known Member
So here's a thing - cost of football is a big problem, no question. But let's look at it with clear eyes.

He wants to get rid of the state bodies and have FFA and regional organisations. Fine, whatever.

Do that, and our kids' fees come down to about $143 plus match fees - maybe $213 per year. If you eliminate the Association fees too so that they can do absolutely everything without staff, the parents are still paying about $153, or more than local rugby league players are paying.

Realistically, since you'd have no paid staff anywhere between the local park and Oxford St, unless you could get volunteers to do it you'd have nobody:
  • creating and managing draws;
  • processing and managing registrations;
  • publishing ground closures on wet mornings;
  • administering judiciary and suspensions;
  • organising gala days, finals days and trophies;
  • coordinating statewide comps like State Titles, Champions of Champions and State Cups;
  • assisting with insurance claims;
  • helping clubs work through the ever-changing mix of regulations (from Fair Trading to the Commissioner for Children and Young People to local councils);
  • nobody running coaching courses;
  • nobody running referees' courses and training; nada...
Unless you can find volunteers for those things (and our limited number of volunteers are already stretched before considering these things) then you actually lose something for the saving. It's not like you can stop spending the money and not lose something.

"In the good old days" we had volunteers doing all of those things (such as they were) but in the good old days we had a much smaller number of competitions for men and boys only, and the older men weren't playing, they were coaching or refereeing or on the committee and the women weren't playing, they were in the canteen or on the committee. Now we're playing far longer so we have far more players to look after but perversely we have far fewer volunteers. The old volunteers are our new customers.

Across the state, there'd be comfortably more than $50 million a year paid out by the 200,000+ players and their parents in registration fees.

Of this, Associations keep probably 20% at most, FNSW keeps maybe 10%. FFA keeps about 7% and the rest is with clubs.

To get a kid's $250 fee down to $125 and be truly competitive with junior rugby league or Aussie rules, we basically need to find $25 million a year in extra funding or efficiencies, find an army of volunteers or do less for our players.

And this is at the easy end of the cost of football scale.

Try the kids paying $1500/yr for their place in a Skills Acquisition Program, or $2400 for National Premier League Youth. Across each SAP, you'd need to find no less than $93,500. Across each NPL Youth program, you're looking at $145,600 to get the current fees down to $125.

Is Charlesworth taking the lead on this and charging no more than $125 for their Central Coast and Western NSW programs? Of course not. I'm not saying he's in the wrong here, I'm just saying that if he tried it he'd be quickly mugged by reality. They'd be looking at dropping well over half a million dollars cover the gap between $125 and their old fees.

Across all of rep football (covering nearly 10,000 players across SAP, NPL Youth, Girls, Regional League...) across FNSW you have to find no less than $10 million to bring fees down to $125.

So to get all players' fees down to $125 football needs to find some $35 million per annum from places other than players' pockets. That's the entire FFA tv deal.

So it's a great line, but the reality of it, the sheer breadth and depth of the task, takes far more than a great line to solve the problem of the cost of football.

So let's look at it another way - what about value?

A kid paying $250 a year. What do they get?

Let's say they play 14 one-hour games with a half hour warmup, have four weeks of preseason and 14 weeks of training for an hour and a half a week; you're up to about 48 hours of structured activity for the grand sum of $250. That's a little over $5 an hour. So it might be twice the hourly cost of rugby league, but are you likely to save $2.50 an hour to have your kid get belted up and down a field for a few hours a week?

Even the NPL youth kid - they're in training for a couple of sessions a week about 38 weeks, they play 22 games (not even counting trials) and they're under the tutelage of paid coaches on better facilities and get a whole bunch of gear as well. $2400 or a bit over $16 an hour.

It's not cheap in the sense that they're big lumps, but it's not expensive per hour either. There's a point to be made in the value of what we get, and we make it far too rarely.
 

neverwozza

Well-Known Member
Great post Dibo. I might print it out and carry it around with me because I always seem to be justifying the fees I pay to non-football people. I try to explain the bottom up nature of our game ie lots of participants relative to funding but people generally only want to hear what they want to hear.

Also I'm not sure if anyone is aware but CCF is looking to end its affiliation with Football NSW. I'm not sure if they are planning to go with NNSW or alone but it may have dire effects for the CCMA programme. In the declaration of comps document football NSW has put an * next the academy sides and has stated that our participation in the the NSWPL is subject to CCF being affiliated with FNSW. I rang FNSW and the person I spoke to was adamant that if CCF dont align then CCMA would not be playing in the NSWPL next season.

I also got someone from NNSW football to send me their subs for player registration and they are in line with FNSW fees and in some cases a little bit more expensive so I am not quite sure what is driving CCF to go down this path. NNSWF and FNSW were both quite willing and open to discuss the matter with me but CCF were a lot less forthcoming. I know Sproddy keeps an eye on the forums here so perhaps he can give a little bit more information.
 

darrensprod

Well-Known Member
The Question above is one for the 23 Member clubs and life members who will vote on this. As directors we have been asked to provide them with the value proposition of Football NSW. We have had the Chairman and CEO of Football NSW attend a meeting with our clubs and try and articulate the value.

From a CCF perspective in 2006 the fees were increased by $20 per player. Since then there has been no increase in player registration fees from CCF to the clubs.

Over the past three years we have spent time strippings costs out of CCF so we do not have to increase registration fees. In 2010 the staff costs for CCF for example were over 400K per year. This year the annual costs are now at 280K per year. Some costs have increased though. For example the cost to maintain Pluim Park increases yearly along with electricity, water etc.

So we are now at the point where for next season we will have to either increase our fees or look to reduce our costs elsewhere. One of the things I have been vocal about is Football NSW. It is an organization with some 60 odd staff and is very inefficient. Most local associations are more efficient from an operational point of view. As an example this year in the competitions they run they were at times 5 weeks behind in input of yellow and red cards and Clubs had to keep track of them. On the Central Coast we have a website that is updated real time after the match with this information and local clubs can check it straight away and in fact we proactively email them.

I have stated to Football NSW that they could run their organization with half the staff if they looked at their operation. In 2010 the Board of Football NSW was removed and replaced by a new board with one of the mandates to look at reducing the cost of Football. They haven't reduced the cost and in fact haven't really looked at the service they provide to the grass roots level of the game.

This year the fees to go to Football NSW from Grass roots football on the Central Coast is $622K. There is a view in some clubs that if we kept this money on the Central Coast we could invest in better local facilities. Like partnering with local councils for better drainage, working with CCRDC for some synthetic fields etc.

So to bring this back to where we are now the clubs and life members of the Central Coast will have a choice shortly. We can keep Rego fees where they are and keep this money on the Coast or we can remain with Football NSW and increase our fees by between $14-$20 per player.

The Board of CCF has no say in this decision. It must be made by the clubs and life members. We have been asked to provide the information.

I will however say that it is my view that in NSW we are over governed and inefficient in our operations and this needs to be looked at.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Thanks.

So with the Mariners taking over the Academy side I assume that they can choose to stay in the FNSW comps in the winter if the local clubs vote to go with NNSW.
 

darrensprod

Well-Known Member
Thanks.

So with the Mariners taking over the Academy side I assume that they can choose to stay in the FNSW comps in the winter if the local clubs vote to go with NNSW.

The Mariners Academy is now owned by Central Coast Mariners FC Pty Ltd as of October 1 this year. It is a question for them but I would suggest they will be staying with Football NSW
 

neverwozza

Well-Known Member
The Mariners Academy is now owned by Central Coast Mariners FC Pty Ltd as of October 1 this year. It is a question for them but I would suggest they will be staying with Football NSW

I know they want to but Football NSW is playing hardball over the $622K in subs they are going to miss out on and have stated in their declaration of league's document (see link below) that CCMA's inclusion is subject to CCF being affiliated with Football NSW.

http://www.footballnsw.com.au/filea...AR_2014_NPL1_Declaration_of_Leagues_FINAL.pdf
 

neverwozza

Well-Known Member
It works out to approximately $180K
So its a no brainer from CCF's perspective - get an extra $440K in the bank and all they lose is champion of champions. Hopefully CCM have enough political clout to get past that little asterix in the delaration of leagues.
 

bistro

Member
Wow I'm impressed Darren! I agree it's time to shake off the FNSW shackles and reinvent/refresh local football in the region. Nothing like having a clean out and removing a layer of unnecessary middle management. Most parents wouldn't know who FNSW is anyway.

Investing in the local region is a great idea, but I also think reducing local player fees is equally important.
 

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