Round 19 - Adelaide United [A]

marinermick

Well-Known Member
Adelaide is by far the best of away trips.

It all started in that season one final that will go down in folklore for those who attended. Drinks with the players in the grandstand bar with the players, drinks with Lyall Gorman and the players in the player’s hotel and partying and drinks with the players well into the night and morning.

And it kept delivering with randomness every time I went.
 
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onto it

Active Member
Too many chances Murray. I've seen enough. Absolutely lovely bloke but just not up to standard. Jair must lead the line for the remainder.
I don't want to sound negative, but I think I have to go back to under 8s to recall a striker as f**kin useless as Jair. He should take up lawn bowls.
 

onto it

Active Member
pissweak tackle by - Jair? to lose it up the other end, and Stens was weak on the defence there.
Cracker of a shot - we seem to have been thrown by the game suddenly turning into WWE.
I don't think we can complain about Stens in this one. He does more running and more physical work than anyone out there, and usually takes out 2 or 3 players when he has the ball. I would guess he was totally shagged at that stage. The tackle was actually Miller's to make. Stens was trying to get back to cover for him after Miller made the amatuerish mistake of failing to stay on his feet. Miller has a lot of potential but needs to sit further back to make up for his current lack of dynamism. He is very slow off the mark so gets left behind often.
Overall though the boys do well back there. We just have a pack of useless underskilled pussies up front.
 

nikko

Active Member
Adelaide is by far the best of away trips.

It all started in that season one final that will go down in folklore for those who attended. Drinks with the players in the grandstand bar with the players, drinks with Lyall Gorman and the players in the player’s hotel and partying and drinks with the players well into the night and morning.

And it kept delivering with randomness every time I went.
Jamie McMaster partied until the night before the grand final I believe
 

marinermick

Well-Known Member
Jamie McMaster partied until the night before the grand final I believe
He partied hard that night. What goes on trip about that one.

My enduring memory is seeing Stewart Petrie totally disoriented on the street outside the night club with cars beeping at him. It was 3am

I got back to my room at 3:30am, leaving many a player still out, and stupidly going to bed when I had a 6:00am flight. Woke up at 9:00am.
 

Tassiemariner

Active Member
Haven't had a chance to be on the forum until now, but wanna say a big thanks to everyone who came to the pub pre game. I did the trip solo so the company was much appreciated. It was great having a few laughs and chatting about the state of the club with like minded fans like yourself and a few others. We all walked to the stadium together and cracked jokes like when we lined up to get into the ground and l and a couple others loudly said ''WE DON'T HAVE LINE UPS TO GET AT HOME'' or ''IMAGINE LINING UP TO GET IN, WOULDN'T BE US'' or ''WHERE THE HELL ARE YOUR SAUCE BOTTLES''.

I really enjoyed Coopers as well. The stadium and the beer. That is a proper football ground ladies and gents and it's only second to AAMI Park in my A-League stadium rank list. As always, an away day has the alcohol and lots of banter and fun in the bay so it was a good time all round. I woke up extremely dusty yesterday morning after being out at the Woolshed pub till 2am.

Honestly, l love doing away days more for the experience in a place l don't go to often, the game is just one of the reasons i'm there. I like travelling and using CCM as a vehicle to do that is something l really enjoy. Highly recommend to everyone that whenever you get the chance to go to Adelaide, just do it. Or Melbourne away. Victory away in April. I'm in for that one too of course.
Echoing what Josh and Tevor have said here. Given I was expecting just Josh and myself drowning our sorrows for 90 minutes, the numbers and new faces certainly made it a lot more of an enjoyable experience than anticipated. Coopers is a stadium that needs to be replicated across the league, especially for those playing out of cavernous bowls like Brisbane, it's a belter.

Just re-watching the match now, and it actually feels like we dominated the first half more than I remembered. Obviously got tired and a little lazy towards the end, but that first half is an encouraging sign for matches against Brisbane/WSW and other teams that are where we should be (chasing finals)
 

Waspish

Well-Known Member
Echoing what Josh and Tevor have said here. Given I was expecting just Josh and myself drowning our sorrows for 90 minutes, the numbers and new faces certainly made it a lot more of an enjoyable experience than anticipated. Coopers is a stadium that needs to be replicated across the league, especially for those playing out of cavernous bowls like Brisbane, it's a belter.

Just re-watching the match now, and it actually feels like we dominated the first half more than I remembered. Obviously got tired and a little lazy towards the end, but that first half is an encouraging sign for matches against Brisbane/WSW and other teams that are where we should be (chasing finals)
I like hearing that. I've been to Adelaide but never Cooper's.

Also agree, I thought we owned the first half although Adelaide had their moments. Enjoyable to watch.
 

Ozhammer

Well-Known Member
It wasn’t a burden. It was a massive opportunity that he would have desperately wanted, and he had huge amounts of time to grow into the role. It’s every young strikers dream to get the kind of shot he has.

I wish Muzz well but I don’t understand why people keep making excuses for him. Why should he even be an impact sub off the bench? What are the attributes beyond a great attitude and work ethic that is going to help turn games? He has shown less than many attackers we’ve happily let go.
Whilst I totally get the frustration at Murray’s output, I have to say that it’s a bit rich to throw him under the bus to some degree. I would firstly question whether he is or has been receiving any form of structured training to improve him? Given that we only have Staj and Arrate as full time coaches and that extra training after programmed sessions is not seemingly encouraged, how is he honestly expected to become the next big thing? Listen to Muratovic’s post game comments after the Roar’s win against WU this afternoon and how he mentions Fowler putting time into developing him. I highly doubt anything similar is happening at CCM and Murray is therefore expected to learn his craft from Simon and Jair plus when he on the field, which has led to predictable results.
 
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Ozhammer

Well-Known Member
I don't think we can complain about Stens in this one. He does more running and more physical work than anyone out there, and usually takes out 2 or 3 players when he has the ball. I would guess he was totally shagged at that stage. The tackle was actually Miller's to make. Stens was trying to get back to cover for him after Miller made the amatuerish mistake of failing to stay on his feet. Miller has a lot of potential but needs to sit further back to make up for his current lack of dynamism. He is very slow off the mark so gets left behind often.
Overall though the boys do well back there. We just have a pack of useless underskilled pussies up front.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Miller is a CB by trade and not a FB and those two positions do demand different disciplines to a degree. Yes he should have stayed on his feet but for a player still coming to terms with the demands of going up and down the wing, he would likely have been getting gassed at that stage of the game. The kid is making a good fiat of the position, that Ziggy was arguably bought in to fill originally.
 

onto it

Active Member
Whilst I totally get the frustration at Murray’s output, I have to say that it’s a bit rich to throw him under the bus to some degree. I would firstly question whether he is or has been receiving any form of structured training to improve him? Given that we only have Staj and Arrate as full time coaches and that extra training after programmed sessions is not seemingly encouraged, how is he honestly expected to become the next big thing? Listen to Muratovic’s post game comments after the Roar’s win against WU this afternoon and how he mentions Fowler putting time into developing him. I highly doubt anything similar is happening at CCM and Murray is therefore expected to learn his craft from Simon and Jair plus when he on the field, which has led to predictable results.
Agree to some extent that the club should have sessions aimed at improving individuals skill sets but....
It ultimately the individuals responsibility. FFS look at youtube, study the best, copy, develop.... it's not rocket surgery.
All the best players in the world stay on the training ground long after the coach has left. Murray will never be top drawer but he could improve 200% if he f**kin worked at it!
 

onto it

Active Member
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Miller is a CB by trade and not a FB and those two positions do demand different disciplines to a degree. Yes he should have stayed on his feet but for a player still coming to terms with the demands of going up and down the wing, he would likely have been getting gassed at that stage of the game. The kid is making a good fiat of the position, that Ziggy was arguably bought in to fill originally.
Absolutely I agree 100%. Miller is out of position and just doesn't have the physiology for that role. He is a much more natural CB with his size and strength. That's where he should be, but I think it would be best for him to have a tough old dog partner to learn from.
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
Agree to some extent that the club should have sessions aimed at improving individuals skill sets but....
It ultimately the individuals responsibility. FFS look at youtube, study the best, copy, develop.... it's not rocket surgery.
All the best players in the world stay on the training ground long after the coach has left. Murray will never be top drawer but he could improve 200% if he f**kin worked at it!
Definitely, I remember reading about Beckham, even after he had reached the top at Man U, still used to put in an hours practice after training working on his free kicks.
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Whilst I totally get the frustration at Murray’s output, I have to say that it’s a bit rich to throw him under the bus to some degree. I would firstly question whether he is or has been receiving any form of structured training to improve him? Given that we only have Staj and Arrate as full time coaches and that extra training after programmed sessions is not seemingly encouraged, how is he honestly expected to become the next big thing? Listen to Muratovic’s post game comments after the Roar’s win against WU this afternoon and how he mentions Fowler putting time into developing him. I highly doubt anything similar is happening at CCM and Murray is therefore expected to learn his craft from Simon and Jair plus when he on the field, which has led to predictable results.
Yeah, I don’t think I throw people under buses and disagree on this. I think I’ve always been pretty calm, reasoned and patient with Murray.

Ironically I think he has clearly gotten better since he’s arrived. But unlike most I have never been convinced watching him, purely because I have never seen enough of the attributes that I think are essential for a striker to cut through at this level.

So like I’ve always said. Happy to be proven wrong. But he hasn’t, and it’s been a long time now, and unlike someone like Bingham, he’s has plenty of opportunity. So I don’t think that’s throwing someone under the bus OH. It’s just my opinion on a football player on a football forum. And I’m not Staj, so what I think doesn’t matter. I’m just a devoted fan of the club who doesn’t believe a nice, hard working player should be my teams strikeout - and one who bothers to try and explain his reasoning - instead of just the more standard form of saying a players is lazy, or a useless piece of shit... blah blah blah.

For the record, I’m sure that a high quality strikers coach let alone having one of the greatest centre forwards of all time would help any striker develop. I’ve actually mentioned it in the past. But I’d still prefer them to be working with someone more talented to help my team start winning more games.

That’s just...like...my opinion man . And if you don’t like it I’m going to go and get my bus out ;)
 
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greenlig

Well-Known Member
Muzz is a striker that doesn't score, or even look like he wants to. Something's cracked in his noggin. Totally disagree on him not being cultivated enough by coaching staff; it's his career, he needs to practice the art. Only good developers/artists/whoever I've hired or known were obsessed with their craft outside of expectations. He's either not obsessed, or not that good. Take your pick.
 

Insertnamehere

Well-Known Member
Whilst I totally get the frustration at Murray’s output, I have to say that it’s a bit rich to throw him under the bus to some degree. I would firstly question whether he is or has been receiving any form of structured training to improve him? Given that we only have Staj and Arrate as full time coaches and that extra training after programmed sessions is not seemingly encouraged, how is he honestly expected to become the next big thing? Listen to Muratovic’s post game comments after the Roar’s win against WU this afternoon and how he mentions Fowler putting time into developing him. I highly doubt anything similar is happening at CCM and Murray is therefore expected to learn his craft from Simon and Jair plus when he on the field, which has led to predictable results.
Posted elsewhere about the day for an afl player with Richmond. Evidently what you've said speaks to why we're floundering. 40 hours a week these guys put in. Yeah its not all skills but you learn to do by watching as well.
We don't train enough.
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don’t think I throw people under the buses and disagree on this. I think I’ve always been pretty calm, reasoned and patient with Murray.

Ironically I think he has clearly gotten better since he’s arrived. But unlike most I have never been convinced watching him, purely because I have never seen enough of the attributes that I think are essential for a striker to cut through at this level.

So like I’ve always said. Happy to be proven wrong. But he hasn’t, and it’s been a long time now, and unlike someone like Bingham, he’s has plenty of opportunity. So I don’t think that’s throwing someone under the bus OH. It’s just my opinion on a football player on a football forum. And I’m not Staj, so what I think doesn’t matter. I’m just a devoted fan of the club who doesn’t believe a nice, hard working player should be my teams striker - who bothers to explain his reasoning - instead of just the more standard form of saying a players is lazy, or useless piece of shit... blah blah blah.

For the record, I’m sure that a high quality strikers coach let alone having one of the greatest centre forwards of all time would help any striker develop. I’ve actually mentioned it in the past. But I’d still prefer them to be working with someone more talented to help my team start winning more games.

That’s just...like...my opinion man . And if you don’t like it I’m going to go and get my bus out ;)
Hi FP - I posted this earlier in the thread and I think it explains why Murray needs a bit of slack.

I'm not going to bag the guys that played tonight - they all put in for the shirt. This also is not a time to blame Staj.

Even if the first half they looked more likely to score - not just because Murray seemed trigger-shy - they just had more threats. TBH every time they broke I was worried and the only time we looked like scoring was when Harold hit the bar.

Look at their starting front 6 - Blackwood, McGree, Halloran, Ospeth, Mileusinic & D'Arrigo - plenty attacking threats there

Sorry - but Murray, McGlinchey, Harold, Stens, Kim & Nisbet do not strike me with any fear.

They bring on a 15 year old who scores against us and we bring on Jair.

This is purely on a lack of money put into the squad - only Birraz, Kim & Ziggy (and possibly Harold when fit) of today's starting XI would expect to be regular starters at most other teams. The fact that we played well and lost is not a reflection on the character of the guys that played tonight - but really most of them are squad players.
If you put the 2013 version of McBreen into the side he would be struggling too. Unless there are multiple threats from a team it is really easy to shut down a striker. McBreen had Bernie, Sterj, Josh and Pedj bombing forward, Ollie offering an outlet and Wee-Mac in his prime. McBreen was not the sole focus and had a great year. We also had Patty Z offering an aerial threat. Look at the rest of Macca's career, he usually struggled with the very occasional break-out year when he had a good team around him. The year before Macca was golden boot he score 2 goals in 25 games and followed that with the following year with 19 in 27.

There are strikers that can do it on their own - but they cost a bucketload. I think Murray is a good HAL squad level striker. Put him in a better side with multiple threats such as Adelaide showed in the last game and he would be looking better. However, he is not a striker that can do it on his own and I don't think he should be first choice in our squad. The fact that he is - is more a comment on the squad than on him.
 

style_cafe

Well-Known Member
Agree to some extent that the club should have sessions aimed at improving individuals skill sets but....
It ultimately the individuals responsibility. FFS look at youtube, study the best, copy, develop.... it's not rocket surgery.
All the best players in the world stay on the training ground long after the coach has left. Murray will never be top drawer but he could improve 200% if he f**kin worked at it!
I used to watch Santalab practicing after training at Football NSW.
He`d have about 20 balls on the halfway line and he`d collect one,run at full pace towards the goal and blast the shot.
He had a pretty good keeper to in Tynan Scope (ex Coventry) to hit them at.
The point is though,he did it for about an hour ,non stop.
I`d recommend that Muzz reads the Craig Johnston Story,if it doesn`t inspire him to work hard then nothing will...:popcorn:
 

true believer

Well-Known Member
Muzz is a striker that doesn't score, or even look like he wants to. Something's cracked in his noggin. Totally disagree on him not being cultivated enough by coaching staff; it's his career, he needs to practice the art. Only good developers/artists/whoever I've hired or known were obsessed with their craft outside of expectations. He's either not obsessed, or not that good. Take your pick.
If he had 1% of stens mongrel he might be something . But he ain't
 
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