Have we reached bottom yet?

Discussion in 'Central Coast Mariners FC' started by Ancient Mariner, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. Capn Gus Bloodbeard

    Capn Gus Bloodbeard Well-Known Member

    Yeah, if we can announce a decent signing before the next game (And by decent, I mean re-signing one of the players we want to stay) then I think it will also build a bit of momentum with the fan base.
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  2. Antlion

    Antlion Well-Known Member

    I am reliably informed that Zwaanswijk and Mile Sterjovski have been in talks with the club consulting on forward strategies. Patrick has been helpful with some high level (very high level but can't drop names) links for TDs/coach options to consider. He is even interested in returning to the club in some capacity but it is very early days on that and a long way off being talked about in any real way.
    From what I'm hearing the due diligence from the club right now is very thorough and all you could ask for.
    I don't think the mistakes of the past few years are going to be repeated from what I'm hearing.

    Clearly proof will be in the pudding but we seem to be looking at better ingredients finally.
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  3. UnitedsNo9

    UnitedsNo9 Active Member

    I hope you are right buddy. Need it done properly and lots of work to get the respect back in the community.
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  4. pjennings

    pjennings Well-Known Member

    This shit is getting real!!

    Another wooden spoon next season could see Central Coast Mariners facing relegation
    David Davutovic, Herald Sun

    Battling A-League outfit Central Coast Mariners are facing relegation at the end of next season if they collect another wooden spoon.

    Wellington Phoenix are also in the gun as they battle to hit a series of Football Federation Australia performance metrics by the end of 2019-20.

    The current CPA (Club Participation Agreement) stipulates that any club which finishes last three years in a row, or four out of six seasons can be relegated.

    The Mariners, who are away to Melbourne Victory on Sunday at AAMI Park finished last in 2015-16 and 2017-18 and need a minor miracle to avoid the wooden spoon this season.

    The Gosford club, who replaced coach Mike Mulvey with Alen Stajcic, have won twice in 24 games, securing a miserly 10 points - five behind Brisbane Roar - while shipping 62 goals.

    FFA chief executive David Gallop, who admitted the Mariners operated in a tough market, said underperforming clubs need to be held to account.


    “It is far too early in the process to suggest what might be included in any CPA going forward but consideration would need to be given to the process for any club that underperforms consistently,’’ Gallop said.

    “The proper management of any league requires KPIs that assist the continued good performance of the constituent clubs and contribute to the strength of the league as a whole.

    “Any new operating model for the A League will need to take on that responsibility. The current clause indicates grounds for a review rather than anything automatic.”

    While the new A-League operating model is due to be resolved by June 30, the Mariners’ results are now under the blowtorch.


    “If the club finishes last in the A-League for three consecutive seasons of the term or finishes last in four out of six seasons, the FFA may notify the club that it is not satisfied with the club’s compliance,” the CPA states.

    Clauses 17.4 and 17.5 state: “If within 30 days of receipt of a notice FFA is still not satisfied that the club can and will continue to meet its obligations under this agreement, FFA may … implement the requirement of a bank guarantee or (call a status meeting).

    “If the club and FFA have not been able to resolve any one or more of the issues set out in the notice and one is either a flagrant or serious breach of this Agreement or a material failure of the club to meet its obligations and Minimum Performance Measures over the period leading up to the review point, FFA may terminate this Agreement with immediate effect by giving notice to the club.”

    It’s understood that the existing CPA will be largely retained when the A-League becomes independent next season.

    Gold Coast United was the last A-League club to be relegated, in 2012, after breaking several other CPA rules, paving the way for Western Sydney Wanderers to enter.

    As it stands, the Mariners could only be relegated to the state league (National Premier Leagues), although the release of the FFA’s second division White Paper is imminent.

    Promotion-relegation has been a hot topic in Australian soccer, with grassroots and traditionalists calling for the system to be opened up, a la most European leagues including England, Italy, Spain and Germany.

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  5. Forum Phoenix

    Forum Phoenix Well-Known Member

    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. midfielder

    midfielder Well-Known Member

    Had to happen, I have been saying all year we have let Football down as much as ourselves...

    MC needs to invest a lot as the loss he will incur if we go down will be mega ...

    He needs a top coaching staff and to spend some money on a marquee ... 1.5 million extra next year could save him 10 to 15 million on our sale...
  7. Antlion

    Antlion Well-Known Member

    This might be a necessary rocket up the ars.e

    People are starting to fear another low commitment year ahead - we can't afford to fail again with this and will have to fight at all costs
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  8. Forum Phoenix

    Forum Phoenix Well-Known Member

    Agree, but from what I’ve been told, others may heard differently perhaps, I don’t think last year was a low commitment year.

    Some spending needed to happen earlier, but we spent adequately, however it was probably the worst bang for buck that we’ve ever spent when you look at how many signings have not worked out. Which is why I think someone like Mick is very concerned about Staj’s Ability to help recruit.

    So as opposed to “another low commitment year” I think last year was a terrible recruitment and a terrible coaching year.

    Which means that spending is not enough, we must recruit well under a quality coach and prepare properly or we’re in serious trouble.
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  9. Antlion

    Antlion Well-Known Member

    I think a bit of column a and a bit of column b on this one. luck had a massive part to do with it as did poor coaching/recruitment - and I agree that at first mulvey looked a sound option that just didn't work out

    we did spend competitively (that is, mid to lower mid table spend). and it was terrible bang for buck. Rallis a definite factor.

    but we also went on the cheap. half a season without a S&C coach. McCormack leaves - no replacement. In fact all of our injuries and player losses were not replaced spend for spend, our incomings were 2 free sheffield players. I think we started with a competitive spend but within a short period were back to bare bones and sub-par players. we know the support spend in terms of backroom is a fraction of what other clubs spend

    when Stajcic came in i aired the same concerns about his network and ability to attract players. this is still a concern. but i do suspect his coaching ability will be above what we've seen so far. you don't take a national team to the top of the world by luck. and we can all see the cattle he is working with. we're definitely better than the 8-2 we were recently.
    IF Phelan stayed to oversea the network aspects then Stajcic could work. Without that there is some concern.

    Need a quality TD to make this work, if it's even true Stajcic is staying on (seems likely, but unconfirmed)
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  10. NoDiggity

    NoDiggity Well-Known Member

    If/when Phelan leaves us for his full time assistant coach role at Man U, do you think they will give us any sort of good will payment? I know that United paid the Norwegian club that Ole was managing around $1 000 000 AUD when they took him back to United.
  11. Wombat

    Wombat Well-Known Member

    Different poaching a part time TD (junket really) to a first team manager. Unlikely we would see a penny imho.
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  12. Insertnamehere

    Insertnamehere Well-Known Member

    Ron Smith as TD? Dunno what he's doing now.
  13. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Well-Known Member

    When you look at where most of the money of the "full" spend would have gone last year it explains a lot.
    Just guessing, but probably in order of cost of the players we bought last year:
    1) McCormack
    2) Oar
    3) Cisse
    4) McGlinchey
    5) Simon

    Then look for the amount of bang we got from those bucks spent, it explains a lot about our season.

    It is also a tell that loosening the purse strings is not enough.

    Many years ago I saw Northern Spirit get a windfall from Rangers and they spent like drunken sailors on crap players.

    Where MC has fallen down over the last 5 years is in not putting an adequate backroom together. It shows his lack of experience in football. Hopefully, that is now being addressed. I also hope that people who are still in power are learning from the mistakes and will be wiser in future.

    Spending the full cap even with a marquee added is no guarantee of success.

    This should be remembered by all those who think that loosening the purse strings is the answer.

    I would not sell Stajcic short in terms of recruitment. I would imagine that he has a good "eye for horseflesh" and is not totally ignorant nor without contacts in the world of men's football.

    I remain the eternal optimist.
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  14. ballantyne

    ballantyne Active Member

    CCM totally deserves relegation. In common law however you have a strong argument that, had it known relegation was possible, it would have acted differently, which is what underpins the concept of grandfathering. So you'd think at least CCM would be exempted from the 4 in 6 rule, but when has common law ever reigned in Australian football?
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
  15. turbo

    turbo Well-Known Member

    Depending on your viewpoint I think most people would argue somewhere between 3 to 5 of those outcomes should have been foreseeable to average joe. We don't have footage of Cisse's performances but there should have been doubts about his pace unless he's really hit the wall within 12 months. Oar has his detractors and did we ever have a plan to utilise McCormack or were we just expecting him to be a different player to last year? The other two have been discussed enough.
  16. pjennings

    pjennings Well-Known Member

    The other point is the that the Club Participation Agreement also allows for clubs that draw less than 10,000 be dropped. Why has that not been applied to Adelaide United, Brisbane, us, Melbourne City FC, Newcastle Jets, Perth Glory, Sydney FC, Wellington Phoenix and WSW. Only Melbourne Victory has met that criteria every year.
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  17. turbo

    turbo Well-Known Member

    That would be a nightmare to enforce and you’d almost certainly get legal action over the FFA not holding up theor responsibilities to the game. At least ladder positions are a relatively even playing field, there’s no chance of some clubs pulling better than others based purely on location. The roar, Adelaide and Perth all have to do it without the luxury of cross town fans to bump them up.
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  18. midfielder

    midfielder Well-Known Member

    Its going to come down to trust and astute decision making.

    As many have said before, trying to run and control our club from England with the odd visit is very dangerous especially if in comparison to other clubs the spend on administration is the lowest in the league... the old saying ""'run on the smell of an oily rag""" springs to mind.

    In LM, Gorman & Arnold and Peter as well, we had almost the dream of admin and coaching ... they all understood Football and Football communities with Gorman & Peter having extensive regional association experience, with LM & Arnold an in-depth knowledge of Australian Football at NSL & National levels.

    When MC took control he appointed that fool from the Roar and they tried to move us to North Sydney and he did not want to spend money and cut costs.

    From afar to me it seems MC had a total lack of appreciation, of the skill the above four had and believed they could be replaced on the cheap with less spending overall.

    This is where its broken down. MC by being in England and wanting to be the key decision maker on all major decisions effectively means he does not trust local folk to run his club, as well as buying managers on the cheap... more over he sends EPL folk out on short term assignments who have little understanding of the Australian sporting environment.

    MC needs if he wants to keep his first team license to trust locals to manage his team from Australia. History shows business that try to run the Australian operation from overseas be they English, US, Japaneses etc need to let the local operation run itself within guidelines from the parent company.

    Our future IMO comes down to whether MC, can bring himself to appoint and fund local managers and then give them the power of decision making... to date Shaun struggles IMO to be the CEO we need in these times...

    As an aside, and assuming Hal can be turned around by the new ownership group, and assuming we follow most countries an A-League license could be worth a considerable amount of money. MC if we become successful could sell the club for many times more than the spend he will need to make for the upcoming season. But he needs to state his intention very early, as many of Mulvey's appointments were late this season, it seemed to me the decision to fund came almost as the season started which resulted in some beyond poor recruitment.
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  19. pjennings

    pjennings Well-Known Member

    At the moment of the players signed for next season only a fully fit Oar would be considered as a first team at any other club. Since he is not fit I think we can now officially say we are rock bottom.
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  20. Wombat

    Wombat Well-Known Member

    Is well respected. Is he still in the loop.

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