What would you do differently?

[adz]

Cash flow is an accountants bread and butter. You dont just hand them the reciepts at the end of the year..Good ones are on-going they provide advice and strategy.

Advice and strategy such as "You need to make more money"?? I think it's a bit of a long bow to draw to suggest it's the accountant's fault. Makes it hard to take the other stuff seriously.

 

[marinermick]

Advice and strategy such as "You need to make more money"?? I think it's a bit of a long bow to draw to suggest it's the accountant's fault. Makes it hard to take the other stuff seriously.

There is no need to redicule Nathan's post because you do not understand what an accountant does. It is far more than book-keeping.

It is more than giving the advice "make more money". It is about showing the client how to make money. A good accountant is a business partner and offers advice that goes beyond the realm of book-keeping.

Given the financial mess PT finds himself him it is apparent he was given bad advice, especially in throwing all his eggs in one massive development on the Gold Coast that went tits up.

Either he had bad advice or he chose not to follow it.

Nathan's various qualifications in finance coupled with his business in this area and understanding of the Mariners' finances when on the CCF board would make him far more qualified to speak on this area.

 

[Revilo]

I don't see how it's the accountants fault regarding the COE, getting bums on seats, sponsorships etc. Nathan used the delayed super payments as his main example. I'm just trying to understand why he thinks the accountants need replacing, and I don't really follow the super example as being a reason to replace the accountants.

To me the super issue is due to lack of cash, due to management not doing their job, and not bringing in the revenue to pay their expenses. No accountant can save a business from being run poorly.

Also, are you sure that cash flow strategy and higher level issues is part of the agreement? Is it possible that CCM aren't paying for that level of service?

 

[adz]

No need to take it so personally Mick, I was just saying that I don't think the accountant plays such a big role that they should cop the blame for the current situation (whatever that is exactly) and be fired for it.

As you said we don't know the facts...

Either he had bad advice or he chose not to follow it.

I really don't see how all the day to day business decisions would fall on the shoulders of the accountant, who would be in an advisory role, with the directors calling the shots.

I've read everything with an open mind so far and will continue to do so, but that just seems so far-fetched to me that it makes it hard to take anything else seriously.

 

[dibo]

An accountant would say sell assets if your debts are current and you don't have sufficient liquid assets, but apparently that's a mistake too.

To be honest, an accountant would also suggest cutting wages (not really possible) and eliminating any non essential spending, but any time the club cuts it gets panned.

So what then? Spend till we're completely illiquid and get wound up?

 

[Nathan Byrn]

Adz you asked the questions I gave my answers.

Clearly some have a different concept of a relationship between a business and an accountant/advisor. I/we work a little differently. The company in question is a partner and also providing the same service to North Constructions.

Lets move on from all this.

 

[Revilo]

Not necessarily Dibo. If there is a business with a "going concern" issue, one of the strategies can be to sell assets to pay liabilities. However, you will find that another option is to appoint a voluntary administrator or similar, who can attempt to run the business more effectively than previous ownership, to get the business in a position to be sustainable again.

There are plenty of alternative options.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

An accountant would say sell assets if your debts are current and you don't have sufficient liquid assets, but apparently that's a mistake too.

To be honest, an accountant would also suggest cutting wages (not really possible) and eliminating any non essential spending, but any time the club cuts it gets panned.

So what then? Spend till we're completely illiquid and get wound up?

The account may also suggest engaging consultants in marketing, technical directors/coaching staffetc. Out sourcing to reduce PAYG and super etc.!!!!!

 

[adz]

At the end of the day it's not up to the accountant to make those decisions though.

 

[Revilo]

Nathan - You seem to hold back information that defends your views. I don't have an issue with your beliefs, I am just probing you to elaborate. I have seen a few times you seem to infer you have information but are not at liberty to say, which can be quite frustrating for those, like me, who don't know the "full story". I don't think late super payments is the full story here.

Have you considered a pseudonym? Because I am generally interested in your thoughts, it's just I'm getting your end thoughts with no substance to back it up.

 

[neverwozza]

You guys do realise Peter Turnbull was an Accountant in public practise before he started TGD.

The Group was formally established in 2000 with the backing of several of Australia’s largest financial institutions. Its founder Peter Turnbull, an Accountant by profession, had specialised in property related tax, accounting and funding structures for numerous property developers since he commenced as a partner in public practise in 1981.


http://www.tgd.com.au/

 

[bikinigirl]

. poor old accountants ... for all i know they have done a stellar job and the situation would have been a whole lot worse if they hadn't been involved

. or maybe they have just been 'cooking the books' and the real story will be a whole lot worse once it comes out :ashamed:

 

[ExiledMariner]

Out sourcing to reduce PAYG and super etc.!!!!!

This. Its happening at every level of business nowadays.

I know it's not going to save a bucket load but it's a start. Everything from merchandise sales, IT support, payroll etc

 

[dibo]

The account may also suggest engaging consultants in marketing, technical directors/coaching staffetc. Out sourcing to reduce PAYG and super etc.!!!!!

Just on this, wouldn't the vast majority of the wage bill (and therefore PAYG and super) be players? We have a handful of office staff and a handful of support staff, then we have 20+ players plus YL players. I'd guess that close to 75% of the wage bill (...and PAYG and super) would be players, and we can't outsource them.

 

[midfielder]

would be players, and we can't outsource them.

Do you mean outscore..Not too sure about that still waiting on the fans V GA select 11 ... with the way we are goal starved over recent weeks ... get one on the break and we could snare a win...

 

[midfielder]

. poor old accountants ... for all i know they have done a stellar job and the situation would have been a whole lot worse if they hadn't been involved

. or maybe they have just been 'cooking the books' and the real story will be a whole lot worse once it comes out :ashamed:

 

[LFCMariners]

This debate is raging over a few threads now, there's a fair bit of complaining over losing players but what are the alternatives? Personally I hate losing players and weakening the team (although isn't it funny how not that long ago we were banging on about how much depth the squad has, up until the replacements had to step up, and now we're in the shit?) but I can understand why it's happening.

Personally, I think the club is building more for the long term with the COE being built to bring income into the club and make it sustainable. Others seem to be going for the "get rich owner(s) to plow millions of dollars in to a loss-making franchise every year", but how's that working out for them? Clive Palmer can afford it but even he kicked up a massive fuss about losing money every year.

Phase 1 of the COE isn't even due to be completed until August next year, yet there are complaints that it's still a construction site? Bit impatient? This stuff doesn't happen overnight!

Anyway, enough of that, I have two questions (for anyone);


1. If you were given the keys to the club today, in its current state, how would you fix things?


2. If you were given the keys to the club, AND the keys to a DeLorean so you could drive back to season 1 (at a comfortable 88 mph), what would you do differently?

It is rather funny seeing that lot up the F3 regard Nathan Tinkler as a one-man saviour, seemingly ignorant of the fact that his number 1 interest is clearly the Knights, and the Jest only entered his radar because they were in the shit and he wanted to own them as a way of bettering his chances of owning the Knights. Kind of like the guy who gets close with the ugly chick because his ulterior motive is to nail her hot friend. Even looking at their roster, the Knights have (arguably) the best coach in Rugby League history at their helm, as well as some awesome players. The Jest have Brockie, hyphen and that's about it. Sure, GVE lead them to a Grand Final win, but his record other than that is pretty average. The Jest have the look and feel of South Sydney about them- all cashed up, living on past glories and thinking those two factors alone will make them a big club.

Onto us though, and to answer your question;

1) Keep a strong youth policy. Let's face it, the purpose of the HAL is to foster young talent as best as we can before they go abroad to bigger things, and to welcome back our biggest exports as they wind down their career. Let's stop pretending we are a big league, because we aren't, and probably never will be. Let other clubs waste money on overpaid underachievers and the like. It only loses money. Secondly, if I were rich enough to own the club, I would look to (eventually) introduce a Green Bay Packers model, whereby the fans can all own the team, but no one individual can own more than a 5% stake in the side. This way the club lives directly on the back of those who are most passionate about it, and you avoid a Clive Palmer situation where the sole owner develops a God-complex and screws the team over. It also ties in nicely with our image as "The people's team" verhead:

2) Move Lawrie upstairs a season earlier, work on defending set-pieces heavily before the 2009 ACL campaign, and hammer into the players the importance of guarding the back post at corner kicks the entire week leading up to the 2011 GF.

 

[LFCMariners]

I will answer number 2 at the moment as number 1 requires much more thought.

I will start with two first points against which these thoughts are made. I think the first three years the club did so many things right and secondly I like the idea of the COE - especially for a small club that needs to differentiate itself in some way.

The downturn in my eyes came with the Season 3 Grand Final. My rant is always that holding the Grand Final here would have cemented so many followers to the club. That was a huge opportunity missed and we should have done anything and everything to make it happen on the Coast. A home Grand Final could have meant a home win, no red card for Danny and a mythology about I was there when the Mariners won the Grand Final to the extent that Bluetongue would have needed to be the size of the MCG. Instead a huge numbers of fans were pissed off because their team lost, they had to go to Sydney to see their team lose and the FFA imposed a huge ban on one of their players.

The second thing is the COE - while it is great in principal - it has been very poor in execution. McCabe had a history of non-delivery - even before the GFC - the partner needed to be someone that had a history of delivery and a love for football. I know that this is a simple thing to say and a lot harder to do but I am very much of the school of if you are can't do it properly then don't do it.

Another area to do with the COE is government funding. The federal government has earmarked money for Tuggerah. The state government has earmarked money for the Bears to set up at Mt Penang including the training and administrative facilities the Central Coast Bears need including state-of-the-art training and recovery facilities. Surely, in a market that is as small as the Central Coast we do not need two sites doing essentially the same thing. This money should have been promised to the Coast as part of a joint precinct at Tuggerah. In July when the Bears lose their bid for inclusion that promise to the Coast would have cost the Libs not one cent and the money will be lost from the coast. Is this simply because we can't talk to NRL people?

The last point is that there needs to be a consistent and viable narrative that the Coast's population understands. In the early years Lawrie was the guy that created the 'family club'. A very saleable narrative. This seemed to morph into the little club that could. To my mind that is not a saleable narrative. It gives the club an inferiority complex that people do not want to identify with especially if the little club that could - doesn't - i.e bandwagon supporters will not stay if there is no delivery.

You know something we don't, or wishful thinking? The Bears bid looks pretty f**king good compared to the plastic bids up here in Qld JQ...

 

[dibo]

Bears are toast. Only RL club in Gosford would be sharks our bunnies I reckon

 

[Wombat]

As a North Sydney fan i'd love the Mighty Bears to get up. As a Mariners fan, i'd rather they didnt. Only so many Sponsorship dollars to go around and the Media would probably treat us as the ugly sister.