Most important Car in 100 years

[midfielder]

Gods knows why I am seeing this on Top Gear a great rev head show and not by the Greens or whoever ... but the carbon footprint and all that help spread the word.

A car that has its own fuel cell its no different to any other car except it runs on hydrogen... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuwC4m7dw4

 

[skilbeck]

midfielder, there is no future in hydrogen technology, the production of hydrogen gas is very energy intensive and on a large scale would require more fossil fuel consumption than current use. also if anyone says what about solar or any other renewable? the fact of the matter is the current reserves of fossil fuel is basically energy that has been trapped by the planet over millions of years and we have plowed through that in a very short time. the conclusion: there is no solution to the energy problem, the ecosystem and environment have a very funny way of correcting itself when a species is running amok

 

[midfielder]

midfielder, there is no future in hydrogen technology, the production of hydrogen gas is very energy intensive and on a large scale would require more fossil fuel consumption than current use. also if anyone says what about solar or any other renewable? the fact of the matter is the current reserves of fossil fuel is basically energy that has been trapped by the planet over millions of years and we have plowed through that in a very short time. the conclusion: there is no solution to the energy problem, the ecosystem and environment have a very funny way of correcting itself when a species is running amok

Are you sure as their are heaps of people working on this as the alternative fuel ... not doubting what you are saying its just I cannot see a major corporation pouring 10's of million dollars and when combined with others 100's of millions of dollars, into a technology that was flawed with such a basic restraint.

 

[trev]

infact i seen a hydrogen car down on the free way today, it looked hheaps good it was red

 

[Redline]

I saw that...very impressive.

 

[Bex]

... the fact of the matter is the current reserves of fossil fuel is basically energy that has been trapped by the planet over millions of years and we have plowed through that in a very short time. the conclusion: there is no solution to the energy problem, the ecosystem and environment have a very funny way of correcting itself when a species is running amok

You're neglecting the extremely low efficiency of the planet in storing that energy. Its only a very, very, very small percentage of the energy input ergo there is heaps more solar energy available than you're indicating.

 

[Atomic]

 

[Bex]

That formula does not take into consideration dark matter.

 

[clarence]

Was thinking about what Skillbeck said about the hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Why has the fuel company gotten involved with hydrogen? And selling it, even if only for a trial? These maggots are profiteering everyone with petroleum prices now, why give them hydrogen to use as well?

IF a car could be made to take the water from the 'exhaust' of the hydrogen car and put the water through a process of separating the hydrogen from the oxygen, with an apparatus mounted say in the boot, the car would be almost self sufficient. Or at least a  part way there.

I have heard that separating hydrogen from other matter is energy intensive, maybe the car's engine and a separate apparatus could be used while the car is being driven (and the inertial energy used too), to make a bit of hydrogen as you go?

May not make enough for a full refill, and I guess the hydrogen has to be compressed into the fuel cell anyway, but maybe it could be stored - once processed - and taken to a compression station for refilling into your car? Or maybe develop technology to a point where the whole process is done domestically?

Sorry I'm obviously not a physicist, but I am loathe to hand over a new batch of technology to fuel companies and spend the remainder of this century and the next paying for a gas that is plucked out of the air.

 

[dibo]

hydrogen fuel cells are basically electric cars that use hydrogen as a form of battery. batteries have always been the problem with electric cars. they're too heavy, they take too long to charge.

the thing that makes that car different is simply that as opposed to using the stored energy of lead and acid, they're using the stored energy of hydrogen and oxygen. hydrogen and oxygen are lighter for the same power output, and they can be 'charged' (refilled) in a way that is familiar.

it's energy intensive, but it's also a stable, lossless way of storing and transporting energy. batteries go off and require non-renewable (and often dangerous - mmmm... acid) goods to be produced.

imagine how you might go about producing hydrogen. take somewhere with loads of both water and sunshine. i'm thinking norht queensland. build yourself some sort of kickarse solar array to suck up sunshine for ever and a day, and use that power to crack the water molecules into oxygen and hydrogen. once you've got it, just store the gas, transport it, do whatever.

unlike using solar for baseload, you don't need it to be 24/7, it doesn't need to be especially close to anything (no need for transmission lines etc.) and after the energy loss that comes from production you've got a lossless way of storing and transporting the energy.

though i've got to say, the idea of hydrogen supertankers sailing around is a bit... interesting...

 

[serious14]

Take water.

Remove oxygen.  I'm thinking some sort of fandangled sub-atomic vacuum cleaner.

Problem solved.

 

[dibo]

Take water.

Remove oxygen.  I'm thinking some sort of fandangled sub-atomic vacuum cleaner.

Problem solved.

a voltameter is what you're after. fire an electric current through water, the energy splits the molecules. make a really big one, produce lots of hydrogen. i think it's been done at least once (on big scale), but we're in the perfect position geographically to do it on an absolute monster scale.

 

[~Floss~]

"Back in my day"... this was a standard year 7 science class demo.

 

[clarence]

Re: energy to separate the hydrogen.

A car releases a lot of energy (so I have been told) every time it brakes. There are ways of using this energy now, I think the Toyota Prius utilises this principle a bit.

Now take that energy, use a voltameter to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water expended by the combustion, a car could be almost self sufficient?

We have some guys here who are actually physicists, right? What;s the go with hydrogen, is it worth any investment?

If it is a goer, I cannot believe that the US Govt. threw billions of $ at GM and Chrysler without attaching some sort of conditions that would lead to better, greener cars. I mean, Chrsyler is still thinking of putting out a Grand Cherokee, which is kinda like Hummer size!

 

[dibo]

"Back in my day"... this was a standard year 7 science class demo.

ditto. mr hopkins filled a balloon with hydrogen and lit it. great fun.

 

[serious14]

Take water.

Remove oxygen.  I'm thinking some sort of fandangled sub-atomic vacuum cleaner.

Problem solved.

a voltameter is what you're after. fire an electric current through water, the energy splits the molecules. make a really big one, produce lots of hydrogen. i think it's been done at least once (on big scale), but we're in the perfect position geographically to do it on an absolute monster scale.

I don't know how, but once the Hadron Collider starts spitting out results, it will answer everything and this thread will be a moot point, because the all unifying theory of everything will provide us with all we need to know.

Or kill us all.  Either way.

 

[dibo]

Take water.

Remove oxygen.  I'm thinking some sort of fandangled sub-atomic vacuum cleaner.

Problem solved.

a voltameter is what you're after. fire an electric current through water, the energy splits the molecules. make a really big one, produce lots of hydrogen. i think it's been done at least once (on big scale), but we're in the perfect position geographically to do it on an absolute monster scale.

I don't know how, but once the Hadron Collider starts spitting out results, it will answer everything and this thread will be a moot point, because the all unifying theory of everything will provide us with all we need to know.

Or kill us all.  Either way.

eh? for a start, it ain't gonna kill us, and secondly it's not like opening a book that will say 'this is how it all works', there's going to be years of research into just what it's telling us. and bugger all of that would have anything to do with hydrogen fuel cell cars.

 

[serious14]

I am engaging in satire, riffing on those science types who are all "this will provide us an instantaneous answer for everything".  Y'dig??

 

[marinermick]

where's dr karl when you need him

 

[serious14]

Shirt shopping......