Mariners 2017/2018- The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[greenlig]

That's what I think too. How much money the club actually makes from those memberships is up to them to care/worry about

That's it. We see the "fantasy numbers", handpicked (still real, just the right real) to project outwards. This is all PR/comms - the numbers they'd be concerned with inside the boardroom would be very different.

 

[Timmah]

It is what it is. The number is still the total amount of people willing to part with an amount of money to be in partnership with the club.

Correct. The fact the number keeps increasing shows the club is doing well in attracting people to commit in some way to being part of the club.

Here's hoping we can turn things around, finish the season strongly and keep the growth going next year - even if the full-season-ticket figure isn't the full 7k we have we still have that many people engaged enough to part with their hard-earned.

 

[bikinigirl]

. sounds to me like you're all buying the PR bullshit

. yes i understand the engagement thing - which is why i don't have a problem with two sets of numbers

. but the problem is you have sponsors, fans, casuals, tv audiences, etc looking on and hearing that we have a crowd of only 5k from 7k members, etc - with the assumption: the members can't even be bothered turning up. surely that can't help attracting casuals, sponsors, etc (even if they do understand the numbers)

 

[scottmac]

. sounds to me like you're all buying the PR bullshit

. yes i understand the engagement thing - which is why i don't have a problem with two sets of numbers

. but the problem is you have sponsors, fans, casuals, tv audiences, etc looking on and hearing that we have a crowd of only 5k from 7k members, etc - with the assumption: the members can't even be bothered turning up. surely that can't help attracting casuals, sponsors, etc (even if they do understand the numbers)

Sounds liked your delusional. Every club in the world would be stupid if they didn't offer it. Am I less a member than you because I cant attend games. Should my membership not be counted against someone else's because they live on the coast? Is my support of my club seen as inferior?
Our numbers at games are not dependant on how many memberships we've sold. Our sponsorships are not dependant on the difference between our crowds and our membership base. More than likely the tv viewership is a bigger indicator for sponsorship than crowds

 

[bikinigirl]

Sounds liked your delusional. Every club in the world would be stupid if they didn't offer it. Am I less a member than you because I cant attend games. Should my membership not be counted against someone else's because they live on the coast? Is my support of my club seen as inferior?
Our numbers at games are not dependant on how many memberships we've sold. Our sponsorships are not dependant on the difference between our crowds and our membership base. More than likely the tv viewership is a bigger indicator for sponsorship than crowds

. i haven't said any of that

 

[greenlig]

. sounds to me like you're all buying the PR bullshit

It's not PR bullshit, it's PR. Which is always a warm shade of bullshit

 

[Tevor]

I’m sure all the HAL clubs are in the same boat with their official member numbers not all being full season ticket holders. Happens across other codes as well I heard of an NRL club counting pet members in their numbers. It wasn’t the bulldogs either.

 

[Ozhammer]

Whilst we can all have a view on the validity of the numbers game the club is playing, the most disconcerting issue is how much of this ‘spin’ is being sold to or bought into by MC to allow him to believe his parsimony isn’t hurting memebership numbers, thus perpetuating the situation.

 

[nebakke]

I think - at the core of it is, that no one gives a toss about the membership numbers, other than the ones that are going to make money off those numbers and the occasional fan. To this day, i don't understand this weird obsession with membership numbers as an ongoing thing in the Australian sporting community. It matters because we want the club to be succesful and for that to happen, they have to have people throw money at them. When numbers are up, it gives everyone a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling and when they're down and we find out, it makes everyone hit the panic button...
But I seriously doubt that a single casual is going to know, or care, how many members the club has, beyond the PR piece spruiking how numbers are going up and people are exited - to build a bit of hype... But it's the PR, not the membership that brings the people and for that exact purpose, I reckon it makes sense to include every person and their dog - literally... It's a feel-good-fluff piece, so may as well take advantage of an opportunity there. I have no doubt that business realities and metrics are well understood in the office.

 

[greenlig]

I reckon it makes sense to include every person and their dog - literally... It's a feel-good-fluff piece, so may as well take advantage of an opportunity there. I have no doubt that business realities and metrics are well understood in the office.

This, entirely.

 

[Timmah]

. sounds to me like you're all buying the PR bullshit

. yes i understand the engagement thing - which is why i don't have a problem with two sets of numbers

. but the problem is you have sponsors, fans, casuals, tv audiences, etc looking on and hearing that we have a crowd of only 5k from 7k members, etc - with the assumption: the members can't even be bothered turning up. surely that can't help attracting casuals, sponsors, etc (even if they do understand the numbers)

I'd dispute you "don't have a problem with two sets of numbers", but setting that aside, what you've described above isn't a unique problem for CCM or even the A-League in its current state.

Personally I think some of the context missing from this debate in general is the overall malaise the A-League and FFA is in, that their CEO yesterday even conceded. Up until the last game or two I think we'd actually improved on crowds compared to last year.

And as @nebakke said I think while certainly there is the PR angle, there's no doubt those in the office would understand the commercial realities of the actual metrics.

 

[pjennings]

I'd dispute you "don't have a problem with two sets of numbers", but setting that aside, what you've described above isn't a unique problem for CCM or even the A-League in its current state.

Personally I think some of the context missing from this debate in general is the overall malaise the A-League and FFA is in, that their CEO yesterday even conceded. Up until the last game or two I think we'd actually improved on crowds compared to last year.

And as @nebakke said I think while certainly there is the PR angle, there's no doubt those in the office would understand the commercial realities of the actual metrics.

We were tracking well until round 9 - then we had two poor crowds against WSW twice and the NYE fixture (traditionally 3 of our larger crowds)
Based on last year figures for the corresponding figures we were down an average of well over 3000. Part of it is our general malaise, part of it is the HAL malaise, part of it is ticket prices in a competitive sports market

 

[Ancient Mariner]

At the start of the season I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel. It was the proverbial train headlight coming the other way.

After tonight's game I honestly have no idea where the club can go in the future.

Good players have gone backwards.

The Club's plan of developing youth and selling them on peaked this season with Appiah.

The rest you could not sell to a state league team.

This whole season has been a continual progression in reverse in all aspects.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

First, I can't believe it's you writing that post Ancient.
Second, I can't believe I'm agreeing to all that with you. But I am. (except the state team line).

I miss Lawrie.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

First, I can't believe it's you writing that post Ancient.

I have been trying to look on "the bright side" for these last 4 years whilst understanding what the club has been trying to do. I have been arguing with the goo feasters since the Lawrie out campaign. I even tried to see the bright side of the North Sydney Oval experiment.

Over the last 2 years I have been given some hope by seeing some good, some canny and even some great recruitment as well as a plan for the team to go forward, rather than just phrases like "attacking football".

I am a foundation member and have been with this club from day 1 and seen some lows, the grand final that never occurred, the Club not being able to pay its bills. However, I have never been so much without hope for the future as I am now. The last couple of months have been diabolical.

Every optimistic camel's back has a breaking point. Last night's performance was the straw that broke mine.

 

[Coast Football Ramble]

I have been trying to look on "the bright side" for these last 4 years whilst understanding what the club has been trying to do. I have been arguing with the goo feasters since the Lawrie out campaign. I even tried to see the bright side of the North Sydney Oval experiment.

Over the last 2 years I have been given some hope by seeing some good, some canny and even some great recruitment as well as a plan for the team to go forward, rather than just phrases like "attacking football".

I am a foundation member and have been with this club from day 1 and seen some lows, the grand final that never occurred, the Club not being able to pay its bills. However, I have never been so much without hope for the future as I am now. The last couple of months have been diabolical.

Every optimistic camel's back has a breaking point. Last night's performance was the straw that broke mine.

With you all the way on this one mate.

Been there since day 1 and through all the bullshit over the years I’ve managed to stay relatively positive, I still remember the newspaper publishing an article about 50 other things you could do instead of watching mariners, something to do with a long amount of time we’d not scored a goal in. That was a dark time indeed.
But I’ve never felt as despondent, frustrated and in hopelessness as I am now.

Jimmy.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I have been trying to look on "the bright side" for these last 4 years whilst understanding what the club has been trying to do. I have been arguing with the goo feasters since the Lawrie out campaign. I even tried to see the bright side of the North Sydney Oval experiment.

Over the last 2 years I have been given some hope by seeing some good, some canny and even some great recruitment as well as a plan for the team to go forward, rather than just phrases like "attacking football".

I am a foundation member and have been with this club from day 1 and seen some lows, the grand final that never occurred, the Club not being able to pay its bills. However, I have never been so much without hope for the future as I am now. The last couple of months have been diabolical.

Every optimistic camel's back has a breaking point. Last night's performance was the straw that broke mine.

I know mate, and I totally and entirely understand. I know how hard you've always tried to be objective and not just pessimistic during even the most severe trials and frustrations. More so than probably 90% + of us. But you're finally in the despairing majority now I'm afraid, and that's a very sad and unfortunate thing.

Real question to the forum... who is still optimistic?

 

[scottmac]

I'm optimistic that the club has a great future. Just not with the current owner and his ability or desire to invest in the football team.

 

[Scotty]

It's hard to be optimistic given that we are on the bottom again and without a win in 2018. I can't emphasise how important this weekend's game against the Nux is. For me, our future is on a knife's edge with this game.

If we get thumped by the current laughing stock of the league then I can't blame supporters turning their back and never returning. Okon will have to go too. It will be his Green Gully moment and the rest of the organisation. Get the broom out.

HOWEVER, if we get a big win and I am optimistic about that, then it could turn our season. Simply put, we HAVE to win on Friday and win big to keep any credibility.

Fingers crossed, come on lads do it for the club, we need this win!

 

[shipwreck]

Yesssss let the hate flow through you!