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FAO F1 fans.....
- Thread starter serious14
- Start date
Bex
Well-Known Member
Still haven't watched it serious. Which is very bizarre as I've tended to watch every race "live" for at least a decade. I would have been creaming my pants over a drivers world championship being decided in the last race in the past. The Mariners and the A-League seem to have replaced F1 for me now, although I'm still interested in F1 just not like it used to be.
tuftman
Well-Known Member
Ferrari wont need to do much to have McLaren investigated for it if they choose to. McLaren were nearly excluded from the 2008 and 2009 seasons for last years spygate.
Could this be an act of the Grand Prix Manufacturers Association, though officillay defunct, in an attempt to strike a blow at Ferrari, who should have had this championship sown up on car speed alone, let alone all the political wrangling they have done to undermine Ron Dennis' team..Kinda reminded me in a way of Austria 2002 when Rubens Barrichello let Michael Schumacher past on the last corner, despite having led the entire race(barring pitstops).
I dont think the FIA will take the unprecedented step of stripping Hamilton of the championship..Senna rammed Prost off the road at Suzuka 1990, forcing both cars out and handing Senna his 3rd crown..But given that all McLaren have to do atm is look in the wrong direction to attract FIA scrutiny, I wouldnt put it past Mosley and Ecclestone to try something like it.. On a brighter note, 2009 brings us back slick tyres...bout time farken...removes a lot of the little aero winglets on the sidepods and such, and KERS comes into play..giving a similiar effect to the 'push 2 pass' that the Indy series and A1GP have
Could this be an act of the Grand Prix Manufacturers Association, though officillay defunct, in an attempt to strike a blow at Ferrari, who should have had this championship sown up on car speed alone, let alone all the political wrangling they have done to undermine Ron Dennis' team..Kinda reminded me in a way of Austria 2002 when Rubens Barrichello let Michael Schumacher past on the last corner, despite having led the entire race(barring pitstops).
I dont think the FIA will take the unprecedented step of stripping Hamilton of the championship..Senna rammed Prost off the road at Suzuka 1990, forcing both cars out and handing Senna his 3rd crown..But given that all McLaren have to do atm is look in the wrong direction to attract FIA scrutiny, I wouldnt put it past Mosley and Ecclestone to try something like it.. On a brighter note, 2009 brings us back slick tyres...bout time farken...removes a lot of the little aero winglets on the sidepods and such, and KERS comes into play..giving a similiar effect to the 'push 2 pass' that the Indy series and A1GP have
bathurstmariner
Well-Known Member
From foxsports.com.au
I didn't hand Hamilton title: Glock
From correspondents in Sao Paulo, Brazil
November 04, 2008
GERMAN driver Timo Glock reacted with astonishment when he was confronted with suggestions that he slowed down and gifted Briton Lewis Hamilton the drivers world title in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.
The Toyota driver, who was in fifth place on the final lap of the 71-laps race, was unable to resist Hamilton's charge to pass him for that position as they went into the final corner of the contest.
If Hamilton had finished sixth, home hero Brazilian Felipe Massa would have been the champion but Glock, running on worn dry-weather tyres in heavy rain, lost the grip he needed just as Hamilton, on wet-weather tyres, pushed for glory.
It was a hard race and I tried my best to get some points for Toyota, Glock said.
Six laps from the end I asked about the tyre situation, and about the weather conditions, and I said every time I'll stay out, one more lap, one more lap' and at the end I stayed out for the whole race
That last lap just cost us the chance to be in the top five, and in the end (decided) the world championship. I think at the end I didn't give the title to Lewis - I think they worked for that the whole year, and Felipe as well.
They both did a really great job all year and in the end it was a dramatic finale.
I think it's exactly what the fans want to see - maybe the Brazilian fans are not on my side any more but I tried my best and drove my race, and in the end I can't change it.''
Formula One tyres are made to have optimum operating temperatures, but when they drop below that they rapidly lose grip and this hits their lap times.
The teams have computer-generated maps showing them the exact location of all the cars on the circuit at all times, giving them instant calculations on what may happen next.
McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh said their data told them Hamilton would catch Glock and pass him on the final lap.
At the end, we could see the rain coming and the pressure was building for us all, Whitmarsh said.
We know how slippery and difficult it is in those conditions and we made, I think, all the right calls.
But we had to believe in ourselves that we had made the right calls, that we shouldn't have taken big risks defending against a charging Vettel, who had none of the pressure Lewis had.
It was super disciplined to believe that in not fighting with and potentially losing it with Vettel that in the final lap we would catch Glock.
But it's one thing having that belief and that view. Once you get into that last lap you start to wonder if you've got it right.
We were obviously telling Lewis throughout that what was happening so he knew he had to keep it together, not panic, not do anything dangerous with Vettel and just to do his job to catch Glock and win the world championship.
As we went through that last lap, we could see Glock falling back and the predictions were we would catch him, but until we did. Well, we were nervous to say the least.''
I didn't hand Hamilton title: Glock
From correspondents in Sao Paulo, Brazil
November 04, 2008
GERMAN driver Timo Glock reacted with astonishment when he was confronted with suggestions that he slowed down and gifted Briton Lewis Hamilton the drivers world title in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.
The Toyota driver, who was in fifth place on the final lap of the 71-laps race, was unable to resist Hamilton's charge to pass him for that position as they went into the final corner of the contest.
If Hamilton had finished sixth, home hero Brazilian Felipe Massa would have been the champion but Glock, running on worn dry-weather tyres in heavy rain, lost the grip he needed just as Hamilton, on wet-weather tyres, pushed for glory.
It was a hard race and I tried my best to get some points for Toyota, Glock said.
Six laps from the end I asked about the tyre situation, and about the weather conditions, and I said every time I'll stay out, one more lap, one more lap' and at the end I stayed out for the whole race
That last lap just cost us the chance to be in the top five, and in the end (decided) the world championship. I think at the end I didn't give the title to Lewis - I think they worked for that the whole year, and Felipe as well.
They both did a really great job all year and in the end it was a dramatic finale.
I think it's exactly what the fans want to see - maybe the Brazilian fans are not on my side any more but I tried my best and drove my race, and in the end I can't change it.''
Formula One tyres are made to have optimum operating temperatures, but when they drop below that they rapidly lose grip and this hits their lap times.
The teams have computer-generated maps showing them the exact location of all the cars on the circuit at all times, giving them instant calculations on what may happen next.
McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh said their data told them Hamilton would catch Glock and pass him on the final lap.
At the end, we could see the rain coming and the pressure was building for us all, Whitmarsh said.
We know how slippery and difficult it is in those conditions and we made, I think, all the right calls.
But we had to believe in ourselves that we had made the right calls, that we shouldn't have taken big risks defending against a charging Vettel, who had none of the pressure Lewis had.
It was super disciplined to believe that in not fighting with and potentially losing it with Vettel that in the final lap we would catch Glock.
But it's one thing having that belief and that view. Once you get into that last lap you start to wonder if you've got it right.
We were obviously telling Lewis throughout that what was happening so he knew he had to keep it together, not panic, not do anything dangerous with Vettel and just to do his job to catch Glock and win the world championship.
As we went through that last lap, we could see Glock falling back and the predictions were we would catch him, but until we did. Well, we were nervous to say the least.''
Bex
Well-Known Member
@ skilbeck and tuftman
I guess you're both referring to the team orders rule. I very much doubt the FIA would be able to apply that rule in this case. For starters, Glock is denying following orders and I seriously doubt that Toyota would admit issuing any order. So, unless the FIA can dig up a radio communication to Glock to allow Hamilton to pass, then they haven't got a leg to stand on to apply the team orders rule.
You may remember that this rule was born out of a team order to Massa to allow Schumacher to pass only about 5 races into the season (was it the A1-ring?) and then Massa spoke out about it in the press. I don't think they will ever apply the rule unless there is hard evidence (driver quote or radio communication) that the media could use to tarnish the image of the sport.
Personally, I don't get it; team orders have been part of motorsport since the beginning and they've always been prevalent in F1. I think it was a bad call by Ferrari so early in the season but that only stood to disadvantage Ferrari if it turned out that Massa was the championship challenger rather than Schumacher. In the end, it was the media beat up that forced the FIA to implement the team order rule. I honestly believe that neither the FIA or the teams wanted such a rule and I don't think it will be applied unless the team order can be absolutely proven. If team orders need to be issued, its so easy for a team to avoid providing proof; they've only got to have a secret word thats agreed to by the team in private.
I guess you're both referring to the team orders rule. I very much doubt the FIA would be able to apply that rule in this case. For starters, Glock is denying following orders and I seriously doubt that Toyota would admit issuing any order. So, unless the FIA can dig up a radio communication to Glock to allow Hamilton to pass, then they haven't got a leg to stand on to apply the team orders rule.
You may remember that this rule was born out of a team order to Massa to allow Schumacher to pass only about 5 races into the season (was it the A1-ring?) and then Massa spoke out about it in the press. I don't think they will ever apply the rule unless there is hard evidence (driver quote or radio communication) that the media could use to tarnish the image of the sport.
Personally, I don't get it; team orders have been part of motorsport since the beginning and they've always been prevalent in F1. I think it was a bad call by Ferrari so early in the season but that only stood to disadvantage Ferrari if it turned out that Massa was the championship challenger rather than Schumacher. In the end, it was the media beat up that forced the FIA to implement the team order rule. I honestly believe that neither the FIA or the teams wanted such a rule and I don't think it will be applied unless the team order can be absolutely proven. If team orders need to be issued, its so easy for a team to avoid providing proof; they've only got to have a secret word thats agreed to by the team in private.
tuftman
Well-Known Member
yeah it was the A1-ring...and it was Barrichello, not Massa, and 6 races into a season which Ferrari dominated(2002)..But I do get your point.. The bigger issue is that the FIA would need to be able to access Hamiltons radio transmissions as well, because I would assume there would be some transmission stating that team orders as such where going to come into play. Here's the catch, McLaren and Ferrari are the only two teams that don't have open radio channels during the race. So coming up with hard evidence would be nigh on impossible
Glocks argument about his tyres also makes perfect sense to any Formula 1 fan, to generate grip you need heat, to generate heat you need speed, to generate speed you need grip. Put dry tyres on a wet track, and you can't generate any of these sufficiently, ands its a vicious circle
Bex, your point about whether 6 races in, whether it was wise to make Schumachers teammate cede position. Michael Schumacher was the number 1 at Ferrari, every teammate who he had at Ferrari knew this (Irvine, Barrichello and Massa), and they raced accordingly. After the 5th round of the 2002 championship in Spain, Schumacher was fully 38 points clear of Rubens, and the Ferrari's where a class of their own in that whole season. So Rubens ceding the win at Austria really wasnt necessary. IMO team orders should still be legal, after all there are 2 championships, driver and constructor, so why not have orders in place. McLaren used them in Australia 1998 to give Hakkinen the win over Coulthard, and I think the previous season at the finale in Jerez as well(don't hold me to that one though). I still believe that we haven't heard the last of this, but given F1's tarnished image over the 2 spygates from 2007, would it really be worth making a deal out of this?
Glocks argument about his tyres also makes perfect sense to any Formula 1 fan, to generate grip you need heat, to generate heat you need speed, to generate speed you need grip. Put dry tyres on a wet track, and you can't generate any of these sufficiently, ands its a vicious circle
Bex, your point about whether 6 races in, whether it was wise to make Schumachers teammate cede position. Michael Schumacher was the number 1 at Ferrari, every teammate who he had at Ferrari knew this (Irvine, Barrichello and Massa), and they raced accordingly. After the 5th round of the 2002 championship in Spain, Schumacher was fully 38 points clear of Rubens, and the Ferrari's where a class of their own in that whole season. So Rubens ceding the win at Austria really wasnt necessary. IMO team orders should still be legal, after all there are 2 championships, driver and constructor, so why not have orders in place. McLaren used them in Australia 1998 to give Hakkinen the win over Coulthard, and I think the previous season at the finale in Jerez as well(don't hold me to that one though). I still believe that we haven't heard the last of this, but given F1's tarnished image over the 2 spygates from 2007, would it really be worth making a deal out of this?
tuftman
Well-Known Member
And Rubens Barrichello was hospitalized that weekend as well. There is actually onboard footage of Senna's last lap, coincidently cutting out about as he approaches...was it Tamburello where he went off?? But anyways that whole weekend was horrible for Formula 1. I don't even think they've worked out why he crashed
yep Tamburello, they redesigned that corner afterwards. The reason I think was a steering malfunction, due to tyre pressure loss, because there a safety car went in that lap. Thats what they concluded I think anyway. But yeah Imola 94 wasnt the greatest weekend of all time of F1 and im glad it hasnt happened since though it will happen again one day
tuftman
Well-Known Member
There was something about the tyre pressure going down causing the ride height of the car to change, which caused it to bottom out...the rest being history..I guess its another reason to dislike Imola, the race(Schumi's banzai in 05 aside) is boring, and the track has taken lives. Yeah I dread to think how big a crash it will take to kill a driver these days, having seen Kubica at Montreal, and things like Albert Park 02 where something like 9 cars pilled up at turn 1
tuftman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but at Indy it took aaaaaages in Formula 1 terms to get a medical team on site. I remember reading an article about Hakkinens crash at Adelaide, and the emergency procedures Dr. Sid Watkins performed on site to literally save his life. That Kubica accident was horrible to watch, I actually thought he was killed watching it live, the way the whole car was torn apart at great speed, feet showing out where the nosecone should be. The good thing is that not only is safety improving all the time, but speeds are being cut with smaller capacity engines and aero reductions
Bex
Well-Known Member
Yes, there was a lot talk that low tyre pressures caused the car to bottom out on the skid plates causing Senna to lose control. This argument was backed up by Schumacher who was following. However, the in car footage you speak of Tuftman shows that Senna's hands turn the steering wheel hard left but his hands don't follow the same arc as the previous travel path of the steering wheel. This would seem to indicate a steering column failure and thats what I believe happened. I've got the video including the telemetry data plus I've seen photos of the chassis after it was impounded as well as close ups of the steering wheel mounting.
Yeh, Ruben's accident was horrific as well. Launched off the ripple strip and hit the top of the tyre wall about a metre above the ground without wiping off any speed. Of course, the tyre walls in those days didn't have conveyer belt material on the outside, so Ruben's car just buryed itself in the tyres so I would guess he went from over 200km/hr to about 30km/hr in about 2 or 3 metres eeeeekkk.
Yeh, Ruben's accident was horrific as well. Launched off the ripple strip and hit the top of the tyre wall about a metre above the ground without wiping off any speed. Of course, the tyre walls in those days didn't have conveyer belt material on the outside, so Ruben's car just buryed itself in the tyres so I would guess he went from over 200km/hr to about 30km/hr in about 2 or 3 metres eeeeekkk.
tuftman
Well-Known Member
Its an old thread, but its become relevant again.
Formula 1 is back, with a huge bang.. KERS+ a raft of other technical and personnel changes has made this the most exciting season in a long time. Brawn GP only came into existence a month or so out from the season-opener in Melbourne, and now Jenson Button sits clear at the head of the drivers world championship. Sebastien Vettel looks to be his main rival(cant see Barrichello getting close tbh) as the McLaren and Ferrari teams struggle to come to grips with the new generation cars. I dunno how many F1 fans we have around here, but feel free to discuss etc
Formula 1 is back, with a huge bang.. KERS+ a raft of other technical and personnel changes has made this the most exciting season in a long time. Brawn GP only came into existence a month or so out from the season-opener in Melbourne, and now Jenson Button sits clear at the head of the drivers world championship. Sebastien Vettel looks to be his main rival(cant see Barrichello getting close tbh) as the McLaren and Ferrari teams struggle to come to grips with the new generation cars. I dunno how many F1 fans we have around here, but feel free to discuss etc
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