Balls in my mouth.

[Sean]

youre exactly right yellowfidello.

 

[Bear]

We had very large numbers, and still building, at the end of v3. All went downhill at the start of v4 because they policed it for a while, and people were not allowed in. Its very relaxed now, but still feels like we are "rebuilding" imo

 

[~Floss~]

Apologies, tried to edit post to reduce length but failed....

Perhaps to relate the 2 issues (reserved seating & new groups forming), I think while we are so young as a group people will be discovering others within the bay with similar styles of support, eg. similar tastes in chants/songs, etc.

Regulars will notice pockets of small groups within the bay, who have gravitated towards each other over the first few years for these reasons.

If strictly policed, I believe reserved seating did come in too early and has, as predicted, worked to our detriment in some ways. For example one observation is that when new chants are tried they are often started by groups of one or 2 people, with another 1or2 sometimes catching on 3 verses in, from half a bay away. That's if the 8 rows in between haven't drowned out the initial attempt. Either way it doesn't work very well.

Over time, with freedom of movement, those people who liked that type of chant would probably stand near like-minded others, and the following week you'd have 6 or 8 people trying to get that chant going.

Years down the track you'd have established pockets of mini-groups of 10 or 20 or 30 within different sections of the home end. But anything labelled as a "break-away" or "splinter" group will be met with much negativity and opposition.

In a way I think these groups-within-a-group should be allowed to evolve because what's happening now hasn't been working. Everything that gets suggested has at least 50% of the Marinators/bay in disagreement and the end result is always "you can never please everyone".
The key is wether it's established with a cooperative or counter-operative attitude from the start.

FFS we join in when we hear Mariners Clap^3 come from the eastern concourse. If I heard a brilliant song coming from 12 ex-pat pommies at the back of bay 17 (for example) I'd join in with that too.

 

[dibo]

something i really liked on the weekend (and forgive me if this has been going for weeks - only just got back in the country so saw it for the first time the other night) was the jesus crew down the front with the flags from the start. got everyone standing, a lot of those standing started singing (some with 'woooo', but even that's a start quite frankly) and i think we were louder than before i went away in october.

 

[Bear]

1st time in YEARS dibo

 

[dibo]

whatever works. could've done without the 'everywhere we go' bit, but hey, it was louder than anything we were doing mid-bay at the time (speaking for myself, largely standing around groaning).

 

[Blair]

I Think we all need to come to terms that Australian soccer isn't insanly good in the tifo chanting stage. Other clubs are more advanced but the preminers league is over 100 years old so its gunna take sometime to get as good at england or spain.

Were in our forth year everyione just needs to stick with there guns and we will have a supporter group that we can all be proub of.

 

[Bear]

but the preminers league is over 100 years old

Incorrect

"The competition formed as the FA Premier League on 20 February 1992"

But I see where your coming from there

 

[Blair]

I ment the FA my bad.

Thanks bear for correcting me once again.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Rather than moan and be unhappy, people who prefer a different flavour to their support should find somewhere else in the ground.

Those who choose to sit and not sing wouldnt go into 16, so "splitters" may have some issues if they go elsewhere.

Provided security etc dont have a problem with standing other than in 16 and provided your preferred way of supporting the team doesnt annoy/irritate/offend who else has chosen to sit there, go for your life.

The disruption caused by reserved seats in 16 has been underestimated and the difference between the quality of our home v away support has never more noticeable. At away games, everyone comes together and it works so much better (often because we can actually hear)

Time should solve this issue and personally, I would urge those who are unhappy to be part of the solution rather than walk but (within stadium rules) the right exists.

 

[Azza-Mataz]

To tell you the truth i didn't think THE BAY was all that bad i have a riot every game!!!

 

[Bear]

To tell you the truth i didn't think THE BAY was all that bad i have a riot every game!!!

+1

But apparantly the way to make it better is to move away :

 

[Azza-Mataz]

To tell you the truth i didn't think THE BAY was all that bad i have a riot every game!!!

+1

But apparantly the way to make it better is to move away :

 

[MrCelery]

but the preminers league is over 100 years old

Incorrect

"The competition formed as the FA Premier League on 20 February 1992"

But I see where your coming from there

Professor Bear speaks, you listen!

 

[Sacko]

Where can I get a pair of them strides!

Then I could be as cool as Kmet on GF v1 with the Yellow "Fur" number! 

 

[The Umina Whiner]

Apologies, tried to edit post to reduce length but failed....

Perhaps to relate the 2 issues (reserved seating & new groups forming), I think while we are so young as a group people will be discovering others within the bay with similar styles of support, eg. similar tastes in chants/songs, etc.

Regulars will notice pockets of small groups within the bay, who have gravitated towards each other over the first few years for these reasons.

If strictly policed, I believe reserved seating did come in too early and has, as predicted, worked to our detriment in some ways. For example one observation is that when new chants are tried they are often started by groups of one or 2 people, with another 1or2 sometimes catching on 3 verses in, from half a bay away. That's if the 8 rows in between haven't drowned out the initial attempt. Either way it doesn't work very well.

Over time, with freedom of movement, those people who liked that type of chant would probably stand near like-minded others, and the following week you'd have 6 or 8 people trying to get that chant going.

Years down the track you'd have established pockets of mini-groups of 10 or 20 or 30 within different sections of the home end. But anything labelled as a "break-away" or "splinter" group will be met with much negativity and opposition.

In a way I think these groups-within-a-group should be allowed to evolve because what's happening now hasn't been working. Everything that gets suggested has at least 50% of the Marinators/bay in disagreement and the end result is always "you can never please everyone".
The key is wether it's established with a cooperative or counter-operative attitude from the start.

FFS we join in when we hear Mariners Clap^3 come from the eastern concourse. If I heard a brilliant song coming from 12 ex-pat pommies at the back of bay 17 (for example) I'd join in with that too.

I'm a Dragons (League) fan and this is one of the hotly debated topics on their forums. But they've had years to perfect it and haven't. Indeed there are 'splinter' groups now. And certain chants aren't supported because people don't like them. The end result is that you don't have a cohesive supporter base that lifts the team and creates the English Football atmosphere everyone craves. One of the big problems is that the club themselves take no interest and make no effort in assiting with sound stadium policies. Also, organised chanting isn't ingrained in aussie sporting culture. We tend to prefer smart arse comments (that can comstimes be really funny). To avoid going the way of the Saints fans, I suggest the following needs to be done;

- Be proactive: Don't be apathetic about it because there isn't the culture, the experience nor the fans for it to evolve naturally.
- Get the club involved: They need develop good seating policies to facilitate a 'hard core' supporting group and ensure those who like to go to the game as a social event aren't degrading the effort of the supporters group. This will avoid vigilante style regulation and fights.
- Have regular meetings: this way chants and so forth can be rehearsed, creative ways to support the team can develop and a strategic direction can be undertaken so tangible results will happen.
- Appoint some leaders or a committee of some sort: Too many cooks spoil the broth (this is a massive problem with Dragon Army) and you need some people with brains to develop the base. These people can't be full of themselves and think they are the shiz just because they lead a rag tag supporter army. They need to be smart, dedicated, friendly and inclusive. The leaders can liase between the club and supporter group to ensure a productive relationship. They can also reach out should any splinter groups or rivalries emerge. Plus, they can co-ordinate the meetings etc etc.
- Be a distinct entity: Ensure the fans know who you are and that if they don't want to sing, they have no place being there. But do it nicely. Gradually numbers will increase as people want to be a part of the group and the base will grow to engulf a part of a bay, to a bay, to a grandstand and so on.

The 'Dragon Army' will never fix their problems. There has been some historical barriers that have made matters worse, but the Army themselves screwed it up also. There is bad blood on the hill and often one group will try and chant over the top of the other. Although the Marinators are no where near this, any supporter group can learn lessons from them. I disagree with the (reasonable enoough opinion) that we're new, things will develop. If people want Kop, they have to make it happen. Its never been seen in any sporting arena in Australia, but could with the right mix of brains and effort.

 

[brett]

Thanks for the comments, er, Whiner. I for one appreciate the thought that's gone into that.

But to be fair, we went through what you're talking about two or three years ago.

It's not easy to distil what's happening into one or two lines. But basically the Marinators have an ongoing identity crisis, and it's been that way since the start. There's some who want the Kop, there's some who want a blue light disco. There's some who want the Man Show, there's some who want a more PC environment.

Some people have left because it's not what they want, and some have stayed but are disgruntled.

We are at a point where the majority of people behave in a way that is somewhat effective (within reason for our numbers etc) at the overall goals of supporting the team and creating atmosphere, that is to say we've found a compromise that's keeping most people happy enough for now.

We've tried to have leaders steer it in what a lot of the regulars and forum-ites consider to be a better way - more consistent, louder singing, with more co-ordination and a 'better' (more diverse, football-savvy and respectable) selection of songs.

But the Bay as a whole has generally responded to structured leadership and coordination with loathing. They don't mind the songs and stuff, but they just don't want to be told what to do.

So at the moment it's a slow process of the brains trust pulling this 'compromise position' to a better place.

 

[~Floss~]

It's not easy to distil what's happening into one or two lines. But basically the Marinators have an ongoing identity crisis, and it's been that way since the start. There's some who want the Kop, there's some who want a blue light disco. There's some who want the Man Show, there's some who want a more PC environment.

Some people have left because it's not what they want, and some have stayed but are disgruntled.

You've come pretty close to summing it all up in a few lines right there imo