• Join ccmfans.net

    ccmfans.net is the Central Coast Mariners fan community, and was formed in 2004, so basically the beginning of time for the Mariners. Things have changed a lot over the years, but one thing has remained constant and that is our love of the Mariners. People come and go, some like to post a lot and others just like to read. It's up to you how you participate in the community!

    If you want to get rid of this message, simply click on Join Now or head over to https://www.ccmfans.net/community/register/ to join the community! It only takes a few minutes, and joining will let you post your thoughts and opinions on all things Mariners, Football, and whatever else pops into your mind. If posting is not your thing, you can interact in other ways, including voting on polls, and unlock options only available to community members.

    ccmfans.net is not only for Mariners fans either. Most of us are bonded by our support for the Mariners, but if you are a fan of another club (except the Scum, come on, we need some standards), feel free to join and get into some banter.

A League Expansion

turbo

Well-Known Member
WE need a 16 team competition with no more NZ teams [for one we need AFC to give permission and they are still pissed with us also FIA has to give permission its simple NZ is in Ocarina we are in Asia]

For me, second Brisbane, second Adelaide, second Perth, Canberra, or the Gong and take out second Perth or Canberra...
For me a second NZ team would make sense in a 16 team comp as they’re a relatively untapped market. Some hurdles but it likely stacks up commercially.

The APL needs to be careful to avoid another Melbourne heart situation so unless there are clear borders or divides in those other cities to build upon (ala WSW) its very risky. Canberra, Tas might have less potential upside but also appear more likely to be decent options. Gold Coast possibly there too.
 

Gazza 13

Active Member
I reckon Tasmania, Wollongong, Canberra and something else like a second Brisbane team or South Melbourne :popcorn:
 

Tevor

Well-Known Member
For me a second NZ team would make sense in a 16 team comp as they’re a relatively untapped market. Some hurdles but it likely stacks up commercially.

The APL needs to be careful to avoid another Melbourne heart situation so unless there are clear borders or divides in those other cities to build upon (ala WSW) its very risky. Canberra, Tas might have less potential upside but also appear more likely to be decent options. Gold Coast possibly there too.
There is one way to solve the NZ debate and if it makes sense as I'm assuming your are considering a NZ local derby as the A League loves a derby. How about no second team NZ and relocate the Nix or their License to Oz. Then we have three of those location options added to the comp which is better than two. Problem solved.

All they need to do is give Visa exemptions to NZ players and if they want to play in more than the local NZ comps they move to Oz or other countries. No more Asia v Oceania concerns either.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
I dont know why you would want to displace a well run, financially stable and decently supported club just to move it to a location in Aus. We have 12 teams, next round I expect we'll get Canberra plus another, possibly Gold Coast for a second SEQ team. Then from 14 to 16 see who puts together the most compelling bid, what catchments can be engaged that arent currently, etc.. If that happens to be an NZ team so be it, I'd rather that than another Melbourne CBD team or a second team in a city that isnt crying out for one.
 

Insertnamehere

Well-Known Member
Apparently the GC bidders have bulk cash and own other clubs. So that's good. But FMD the GC is not the place to have a sports team. Its an absolute money pit and grave yard. Getting to the stadium used to be a fkn nightmare, don't know if the tram has improved that.

I'd rather a 2nd bris team. One has north of the river to wherever, the other has south to the border.

So for me Brisbane, Gong, Canberra, Tassie.
 

style_cafe

Well-Known Member
Darwin/NT maybe ?
I’m thinking a NSD should be regionalised in preparation for inclusion in the A-League.

Teams from Wollongong, Tassie, Gold Coast,Nth Qld, 2nd Perth, 2nd Adelaide, Darwin, 2nd Brisbane, Toowoomba, etc. could then get their act together for a few years to become a united regionalised club, with a solid foundation, before they enter the A League.
Infrastructure, like home grounds,supporters clubs,Youth Leagues etc could all be built slowly and properly instead of being granted just 2 years.
Add to this, that all A-League and development League clubs should have Womens teams too & this would then increase participation rates and the appeal of our game nationally.

The NPL clubs ,on the other hand, have a very limited chance of being elevated as they are small, moderately supported and will impact on the existing A-League clubs... :popcorn:
 

Allreet?

Well-Known Member
WE need a 16 team competition with no more NZ teams [for one we need AFC to give permission and they are still pissed with us also FIA has to give permission its simple NZ is in Ocarina we are in Asia]

For me, second Brisbane, second Adelaide, second Perth, Canberra, or the Gong and take out second Perth or Canberra...
Part of the reason I keep saying split Asia into East and West with Oceania absorbed into East. They're pointless by themselves.
 

Tevor

Well-Known Member
I dont know why you would want to displace a well run, financially stable and decently supported club just to move it to a location in Aus. We have 12 teams, next round I expect we'll get Canberra plus another, possibly Gold Coast for a second SEQ team. Then from 14 to 16 see who puts together the most compelling bid, what catchments can be engaged that arent currently, etc.. If that happens to be an NZ team so be it, I'd rather that than another Melbourne CBD team or a second team in a city that isnt crying out for one.
In your mind do your just totally dismiss the fact they are in Oceania? All the capital cities in Australia whom have a team could support another team in my opinion. I'll agree that Western United wasn't a great idea but only for the reason they didn't have a home ground from the start and this will change when that finally happens. The Cows had and have potential but the owners are the only ones at fault for why that hasn't worked better by not respecting the area and pricing their memberships and tickets well above market.

Now look who is being positive about the league and who is being the negative one.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
In your mind do your just totally dismiss the fact they are in Oceania?
No, I just dont think it should write them off straight away. If the AFC says no then it is what it is but I dont dismiss it out of hand. Maybe they wrangle some fifa votes from NZ & Oceania next time they're needed, there's ways to get things done and the mountain should be smaller than when they admitted the nix. I'm more concerned about what they can bring to the comp and potential to grow the audience which will help keep the league in a good place into the future.

All the capital cities in Australia whom have a team could support another team in my opinion. I'll agree that Western United wasn't a great idea but only for the reason they didn't have a home ground from the start and this will change when that finally happens. The Cows had and have potential but the owners are the only ones at fault for why that hasn't worked better by not respecting the area and pricing their memberships and tickets well above market.
The numbers are there but are there communities not serviced by the current setup? Sydney has some significant geographic and cultural reasons why WSW really took off. Those reasons dont really exist for Macarthur so the reception was luke warm especially combined with their management being delusional.

Melbourne never had a clear line or boundary and Heart/City have never really hit the heights they should because of it. A textbook lesson on how to botch it. If anything at least WU have a clearer identity long term and once they get a home ground they can grow into it.

Now maybe Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth have that divide that can be tapped into, isnt adequately serviced by the incumbent and has the desire for a team but if the case isnt very clear who their target is I'd rather not see expansion there. Just being Brisbane not roar wont cut it or grow the league, may not be stable in the long term.

Now look who is being positive about the league and who is being the negative one.
I'm positive about expansion but I want to see the lessons of the past analyzed and heeded.
 

Tevor

Well-Known Member
No, I just dont think it should write them off straight away. If the AFC says no then it is what it is but I dont dismiss it out of hand. Maybe they wrangle some fifa votes from NZ & Oceania next time they're needed, there's ways to get things done and the mountain should be smaller than when they admitted the nix. I'm more concerned about what they can bring to the comp and potential to grow the audience which will help keep the league in a good place into the future.


The numbers are there but are there communities not serviced by the current setup? Sydney has some significant geographic and cultural reasons why WSW really took off. Those reasons dont really exist for Macarthur so the reception was luke warm especially combined with their management being delusional.

Melbourne never had a clear line or boundary and Heart/City have never really hit the heights they should because of it. A textbook lesson on how to botch it. If anything at least WU have a clearer identity long term and once they get a home ground they can grow into it.

Now maybe Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth have that divide that can be tapped into, isnt adequately serviced by the incumbent and has the desire for a team but if the case isnt very clear who their target is I'd rather not see expansion there. Just being Brisbane not roar wont cut it or grow the league, may not be stable in the long term.


I'm positive about expansion but I want to see the lessons of the past analyzed and heeded. is a NZ team costs a lot of money with travel, does not help Australian football develop and has a huge potential to embarrass the league if they ever win something.
Here is a lesson we have learned, NZ teams cost more because of the travel. They add very little to the development of Australian footballers and have a huge potential for embarrassment if they actually win something. Perfect reason for adding another NZ team. Makes perfect sense.
 

JoyfulPenguin

Well-Known Member
No, I just dont think it should write them off straight away. If the AFC says no then it is what it is but I dont dismiss it out of hand. Maybe they wrangle some fifa votes from NZ & Oceania next time they're needed, there's ways to get things done and the mountain should be smaller than when they admitted the nix. I'm more concerned about what they can bring to the comp and potential to grow the audience which will help keep the league in a good place into the future.


The numbers are there but are there communities not serviced by the current setup? Sydney has some significant geographic and cultural reasons why WSW really took off. Those reasons dont really exist for Macarthur so the reception was luke warm especially combined with their management being delusional.

Melbourne never had a clear line or boundary and Heart/City have never really hit the heights they should because of it. A textbook lesson on how to botch it. If anything at least WU have a clearer identity long term and once they get a home ground they can grow into it.

Now maybe Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth have that divide that can be tapped into, isnt adequately serviced by the incumbent and has the desire for a team but if the case isnt very clear who their target is I'd rather not see expansion there. Just being Brisbane not roar wont cut it or grow the league, may not be stable in the long term.


I'm positive about expansion but I want to see the lessons of the past analyzed and heeded.
Melbourne does have lines and boundaries but you need to actually understand the market.

Western United can and will work IF they have a stadium in the West. The NBL have the South East Melbourne Phoenix, another clear market.

The AFL clubs don't really serve clear geographical markets in Melbourne what they really serve are different classes, ethnicities and sub groups within Melbourne. Melbourne Demons and Hawks fans are generally rich, upper class people.
In contrast North Melbourne, Collingwood and the Western Bulldogs are working class clubs. While Carlton primarily represents people with Mediterranean heritage.

The A-League needs to work out ways to tap into ways people identify beyond just geography, Monoethnic clubs akin to the NSL aren't the solution but there can and should be a middle ground.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
Here is a lesson we have learned, NZ teams cost more because of the travel. They add very little to the development of Australian footballers and have a huge potential for embarrassment if they actually win something. Perfect reason for adding another NZ team. Makes perfect sense.
The travel can be offset with other commercial opportunities in a wider market. A second capital city team won’t really achieve that. The rest of it just doesn’t worry me. I like the diversity the nix bring to the comp. Looks like we’ll agree to disagree.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
Melbourne does have lines and boundaries but you need to actually understand the market.
Some good points there. Had they set up two Melbourne sides from the outset I think things would be different but the way it’s worked out is ‘support us we aren’t victory’. Maybe with City going east there will be a more organic identity over time, I hope so anyway.
 

JoyfulPenguin

Well-Known Member
Some good points there. Had they set up two Melbourne sides from the outset I think things would be different but the way it’s worked out is ‘support us we aren’t victory’. Maybe with City going east there will be a more organic identity over time, I hope so anyway.
The South East of Melbourne (Mornington Peninsula, Dandenong and Frankston) has a clear identity seperate from most of Melbourne. But have never really had a professional side in any sport, bar the brand new South East Melbourne Phoenix.

While I personally despise City and CFG for what they did to Heart they at least know what they are doing.

If they can be an "upper class" club in the vein of the Melbourne Demons or Hawthorn Hawks they will find real success. Basing themselves in the South East will also deliver another huge potential geographical fanbase who are largely unrepresented in professional sport. This fanbase is also largely migrant and first generation Australians in the more working class areas of Dandenong and Frankston.

This is all assuming of course that people can support a colonial club representing the interests of a human rights abusing dictatorship.
 

Online statistics

Members online
23
Guests online
126
Total visitors
149

Forum statistics

Threads
6,488
Messages
333,208
Members
2,489
Latest member
EssendonMariner
Top