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What the? Div 1 Ourimbah vs SEU replay- last 15 mins of abandoned match

Kareem

Well-Known Member
CCF have decided to replay the abandoned match of SEU vs Ourimbah in Division 1, 1st grade

Original match 7th June, 2:45pm at James Brown Oval (SEU) (2-1 SEU winning, 15 mins to go)

1st half
We easily dominated possession, scored 1 goal, hit the crossbar (somehow), SEU were not even playing tbh!

2 mins to go in 1st half, our RM gets red carded (yellow card for tackle, then yellow for abusing ref for yellow card)

Right before halftime whistle, ball goes out near box, ball kicked back in (by SEU player trying to keep it in), linesman signals corner (when it was either goal kick, ro still in), our players stops ball with hand.
After dubious discussion between the ref and the linesman, the linesman retracted his call. A penalty was given.

GK saves penalty but SEU score tap-in after save

Coaches abuse ref on way to changerooms during halftime


2nd half
SEU score again

15 mins to go (I thought 19 but it is officially 15). Our Striker falls awkardly on neck, suspected spinal injury. Takes 15-20 mins for ambulance to arrive, by time game can continue ref has called it off due to inadequate lighting.


The decision:
We are due to play SEU at home (Ourimbah) on the 9th of August (last round of season).
CCF have decided to play the final 15 mins of the game first, followed by a 10 min break, then our scheduled game (for 90 mins).
The conditions
We are to have 10 men
We have to have exactly the same players on the park (I dont understand what happens with any potential injuries).
They supposedly want the same refs? Basically trying to replicate the original conditions...
except for a couple of things eg. home advantage

I have never 1st hand experienced this before...

Apparently this was decided due to a precedent in a NSW match, 1 team from Bathurst and one from Central Coast, where they made Bathurst tam come up to play final 15 mins!


What does anyone think

SEU (talking to people i know there) thought it would be either
a) Replayed completely (as only 1 goal difference at stoppage)
b) result awarded to SEU

People at Ourimbah thought same thing

this is very interesting
 

marinermick

Well-Known Member
I think this is an awful decision and quite frankly bizarre.. The only two logical options are the ones you outline.

In lower grade games the decision is to keep the scoreline if teams make it to halftime. This is where the precedence should come from.
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
typool said:
yeh if u guys had deanez up front u guys would be up the front of the table
deanez....i agree (rooney style position). But shoosh, dont say anything.
Except I doubt we would be top of table.
We have 2 strikers at the moment, one on 10-12 goals. One on 1 goal (scored it last week).
Deans has scored one from midfield, and only playing half the time.
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
marinermick said:
I think this is an awful decision and quite frankly bizarre.. The only two logical options are the ones you outline.
Well acording to SEU
its usually until 3/4 of game. After that result stands.

FFC Mariner said:
Surely there are rules governing the comp?
apparently not
and this will now be the future precedent.



Oh and one personal precedent was u 13D's SEU vs Ourimbah (lol at the two teams)- this was back in my SEU days.
We were leading 2-0 after 10 mins (I scored a rare goal :p), and it started pouring big time, ref called of game (this was in 2003, dunno why he called it off).
Game got replayed, my goal didnt count :(, and we won 8-1 BUT I scored again :p
But that was 13D's


marinermick said:
In lower grade games the decision is to keep the scoreline if teams make it to halftime. This is where the precedence should come from.
I dunno. They are scared of a promotion and relegation issue in the biggest competition here...
except Ourimbah are 6th, SEU 7th or 8th, both far way from top 2...
still if this problem happened to a team threatening promotion/relegation they (the CCF) need to be prepared to tackle it.

I dont think this decision would be made for anything apart MPL + WPL (thankfully)

Reasons for it
1) SEU win- Ourimbah claim we could have won it...(stranger things have happened)- despite being a man down
2) Replay- SEU lose 1 goal + 1 man advantage
 

typool

Well-Known Member
Kareem said:
typool said:
yeh if u guys had deanez up front u guys would be up the front of the table
deanez....i agree (rooney style position). But shoosh, dont say anything.
Except I doubt we would be top of table.
We have 2 strikers at the moment, one on 10-12 goals. One on 1 goal (scored it last week).
Deans has scored one from midfield, and only playing half the time.

yeh i have watched a few of your games this year, and i liked your style.
the terrigal game was amazing

what number do you play?
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
typool said:
Kareem said:
typool said:
yeh if u guys had deanez up front u guys would be up the front of the table
deanez....i agree (rooney style position). But shoosh, dont say anything.
Except I doubt we would be top of table.
We have 2 strikers at the moment, one on 10-12 goals. One on 1 goal (scored it last week).
Deans has scored one from midfield, and only playing half the time.

yeh i have watched a few of your games this year, and i liked your style.
the terrigal game was amazing

what number do you play?
I'm no33 :D
only have played for Ressies in league (+ 2 appearances in Cup- Arsenal style :p)

The Terrigal game = amazing
that was our 5th point of season in our  8th game (1 win, 1 draw, 5 losses before that)
And they were 7 winw from 7
We were tired, and we amazingly picked up from 2-0 HT, to draw 2-2.

You musnt have see the games we lost eg. Killarney, Woy Woy, Kariong etc. when we didnt offer anything

NB: Deanez was in Ressies against Woy Woy + Kariong...suprise
One thing that is most fascinating is when he plays for ressies (3-4 times), he has played rubbish tbh. He plays better with the 1st grade sqaud (as opposed to other players when they drop down, and play awesome).

I rate Deanez as our Caceres, can do some unbelievable things ;) (and both South American :p)
Oh and he hates Matty Simon  :eek:
 

typool

Well-Known Member
Kareem said:
typool said:
Kareem said:
typool said:
yeh if u guys had deanez up front u guys would be up the front of the table
deanez....i agree (rooney style position). But shoosh, dont say anything.
Except I doubt we would be top of table.
We have 2 strikers at the moment, one on 10-12 goals. One on 1 goal (scored it last week).
Deans has scored one from midfield, and only playing half the time.

yeh i have watched a few of your games this year, and i liked your style.
the terrigal game was amazing

what number do you play?
I'm no33 :D
only have played for Ressies in league (+ 2 appearances in Cup- Arsenal style :p)

The Terrigal game = amazing
that was our 5th point of season in our  8th game (1 win, 1 draw, 5 losses before that)
And they were 7 winw from 7
We were tired, and we amazingly picked up from 2-0 HT, to draw 2-2.

You musnt have see the games we lost eg. Killarney, Woy Woy, Kariong etc. when we didnt offer anything

NB: Deanez was in Ressies against Woy Woy + Kariong...suprise
One thing that is most fascinating is when he plays for ressies (3-4 times), he has played rubbish tbh. He plays better with the 1st grade sqaud (as opposed to other players when they drop down, and play awesome).

I rate Deanez as our Caceres, can do some unbelievable things ;) (and both South American :p)
Oh and he hates Matty Simon  :eek:

i agree with the Caceres call when he is hot he is hot, when he cold he is rubbish
yeh i have seen a fair few of your losses, im mates with a few guys that play 1st and ressies.

i think we all (the coast) will be playing this weekend
 

Loki

Well-Known Member
I would like to see the entire game replayed at the end of the season if required?
I can't believe what CCF have decided. There are to many variables in what they are proposing.
The game would have been finished on the day other than no lighting available?
Also need to be mindful a player doesn't decide to fake injury to win a game.
Obviously we are only talking 1st grade games in this situation.
WOW!
 

CCF Chairman

Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
Surely there are rules governing the comp?
Yes there are rules and that is what the CCF has followed in this situation. Regulation D.6.11(i) states that we have to decide if the match is to be played, replayed or abandoned.

If we had decided that the match was to be abandoned then the result would have had to have been a 1-1 draw - clearly not a fair result considering the circumstances.

As we decided that the match should be played then the next decision that had to be made would be to either have the result stand as it was, or continue the match and play out the remaining time.

This situation would only arise in a competition where injury time is added by the referee ie 1st Grade or Premier League. In any other division - senior or junior - full time would have been called when it was up, even if the player was still be treated or attended to by the paramedics.

The match is not being replayed - it is being completed by playing the remaining 15 minutes using the same players who were on the field at that time in the original fixture.

The precedent from Football NSW arose in a Super Youth League match where an ambulance was called and the referee was not aware that time was to be added for injury and should have continued with the match after the player and ambulance had left the field.

We need to make the distinction between matches that have been cut short for these circumstances, as opposed to those abandoned due to reasons of misconduct, in which case an entirely different scenario would have emerged.

btw it is not just CCF and FNSW that have this policy. This is the normal procedure adopted by the RFEF (Spanish Football Federation) for any matches under their control, including games in La Liga.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Thanks

What if a player who was on the field at the time is unable to play the last 15 minutes and all substitutes had been used? Would the side need to play with 10 men?

I dont envy you guys your jobs 1 bit
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
What if a player who was on the field at the time is unable to play the last 15 minutes and all substitutes had been used? Would the side need to play with 10 men?
i dont get the question completely?
do you mean just in general?
or in this scenario?
In general terms, this happened to the Jets last season (LOL)
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
To CCF chairman
i hope i wasnt disrespectful, I wouldnt be sure what result to do either.
CCF's decision sounds like the best in theory- =no doubt.
I am just sceptical of variables :p

biggest variable is different ground??? Is that for convenience?
Are the same refs going to be used?
What happens if one of our 10, or SEU's 11 is injured? Are we allowed to replace them
What happens if one of our 10, or SEU's 11 is suspended by that stage of the season? Will the suspension not count for that 15 min remainder of game (since technically game began before any suspension)

Lastly, we had a red card. The guy has since missed two matches (including monday game). Not really complaining, more so thinking about whether technically his suspension should have stood? His red card in a match which hasnt been finished YET! Should the suspension have started after the match is concluded finished? I know there is no precedent?
We arent upset or anything, I am just curious about technicalities!
 

CCF Chairman

Well-Known Member
No Kareem - not disrepectful at all.
You are right there are a lot of variables and hypothetical situations that have or could arise.
Firstly the different ground - yes that is for convenience. If it had happened in the second round match we would have had to play it as a "one-off" on a Saturday, mid-week or Sunday morning which would probably caused more inconvenience than having to play this last 15 minutes at a different ground.
The same referee will be used, and the same assistants if possible. May be difficult if the ARs were juniors and have transport difficulties or other commitments.
If any of the players who were on the field at the conclusion of the game are subsequently injured then they will be able to replaced, unless all of the allowable substitutions have already been made.
You are correct about the technicality of anyone who is subsequently suspended not being suspended when this game began. If that situation does arise, which is a distinct possibility, the situation will be determined on its merits. For "minor" infringements, players are suspended for a number of matches. If that is the case then a player could be allowed to play for the conclusion of this game. For serious infringements players are usually suspended to a specific date, depending on the number of months or years they may receive. Even though they may not have been under suspension at the time of this game, I would be very reluctant to allow someone serving say, a two year suspension for assaulting or threatening an official or similar, to take part in the match.

As for the player who was sent off in the match, if you applied your reasoning then he would have been out for the entire time. After receiving a red card you cannot play from that time through until your suspension is concluded - that would mean something like 10 weeks!
So he will not be able to play in the remaining 15 minutes, but will be able to take the field for the second game immediately afterwards.

As I said previously, this is a very unusual situation. No matter what decision was made there could have been a very valid argument made against it. If we had let the result stand, Ourimbah could argue they may have equalised or taken the lead in that remaining time. If we decided to replay the whole match, then SEU could argue that they were leading against a 10 man team and would be disadvantaged to play the entire game again. If we abandoned the game completely it has to be recorded as a draw, which again the team leading would not be happy with.

The course we have taken was, in my opinion, the fairest (despite some of the variables you have rightly observed) and also the one which we had at least some precedent to follow. I mentioned earlier that the Spanish La Liga have the same procedure - imagine if Barcelona were leading a 10 man Real Madrid 2-1 with 15 minutes left and the lights failed at the Nou Camp. All of the same arguments you have alluded to could also apply there.

I can assure you, it wasn't an easy decision to make, and one we'd rather not have to deal with again!
 

Kareem

Well-Known Member
:goodpost:
thanks heaps
I appreciate you coming on here, and respectfully explaining your decision
It is true that this is probably the fairest decision, just shocked me...

I guess what was more important here is that you had to be sure you make a correct precedent for 1st grade matches!
Because this decision wont really impact either team tbh, but in years to come it could decide an important relegation or promotion

And nice reference to La Liga- best league ;):p (I'm a big fan- Hala Madrid)

PS. Touche  :tophat: on the red card technicality. Unlike yellow cards its not when it is processed, its as soon as the card is given (ie. you are unable to walk onto next field and play).
My mistake


Oh and make sure to tell Swampy about my questioning on the technicality, he loves to tease about my inquisitive nature :p
 

Loki

Well-Known Member
As an Association we decide what rules work best for us, I don't see this as being one of them.
 

truesoccer

Active Member
Kareem
Please get rid of whatever flag you display. We are in Australia. If you live here show the Aussie flag.
Also be quiet or alternatively get your facts together before going of on your high horse. All we ever see is you saying you are the greatest or whinging about something. Maybe you should be on WWE.
We know you are the best player ever. You have told us. We also know you have the biggest uncontrolled mouth. You have exhibited this too many times.
 

Auburn Mariner

Well-Known Member
Interesting situation this one.

Different code, but there was a Friday Night AFL game between Essendon & St Kilda at VFL Park in the early 1990's. 5 minutes into the last quarter, a dreadful fatal car accident knocked out the whole area's electricity, and VFL Park's auxilliary generators failed to work. So, the game was halted, then called off as it took 11 hours to restore power.

Result: Essendon & St Kilda played the remaining 20 minutes on the following Tuesday Night, with ALL eligible players able to be picked (i.e., anyone NOT suspended). Essendon won.

I reckon no matter what you do, someone will be unhappy. It does seem odd that the EXACT 10 SEU players must play, I would have thought ANY 10 registered, eligible and non-suspended players for SEU and 11 for Ourimbah would have been more practical.
 

Auburn Mariner

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, I think that Kareem can have whatever he bloody wants as his avatar. Yes, we are Australians but he should be able to show his heritage if he so chooses. I personally would always have an Australian flag (even with that abysmal Union Jack, it is still ours), but each to their own.
 

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