Usain Bolt!

[Forum Phoenix]

I don't think football as entertainment is particularly new. I can't remember the exact quote, but Bill Shankly said something along the lines of footballers have a responsibility to entertain, to give fans their money's worth and let them forget about real life for ninety minutes on a Saturday afternoon. Football has always been about entertainment, it's just that it was always about working class entertainment. The pre-game and half time gimmicks, the ridiculous themed rounds, the handing out of 'number one' memberships to politicians or drink driving TV chefs, etc. (or in England things like the all-seater stadiums) are all part of the stripping away of football's working class identity to make it appeal to middle class audiences as a safe, family-friendly form of entertainment. There's no real point to these ramblings, just that I think there's more to it than football used to be sport and now it's entertainment.

Thoroughly agree, only thing is most of the working class are now the new middle class that they’re targeting

Rallis leaked the story to SMH to leverage his position. He's a smart operator and a total bastard.
The club had to react early. We've probably lost the Bolt trial from it unless talks we're very advanced.

How did I not realise this. Such a scumbag.

 

[Offsider]

This is not the way I have read the deal. Richard Hind has put it out this way but most of the others haven't. My understanding is that it if a trial take place it is simply that a trial. No-one is paying him to trial. However, there may be offers of accommodation and transport from people other than the club.

At this stage Bolt may not trial, he may trial and fail, he may trial and get a contract. My understanding is that it looks like Bolt is after $3M for a season. MC is underwriting $2.1M of that cost (in other words he likely already has sponsors to that amount) and is looking at the FFA for $900,000. i.e. MC's expense may very will be zero.

I am not of the opinion that we can't negotiate with Bolt and his agents and continue with other recruitment.

However, the argument should be a three-way one.

1) Do we recruit as normal and hope that Mike Mulvey can improve us and we at least get to the finals. This will not bring back the crowds - too many have been burnt since GA left. Only repeated success - finals and better over repeated seasons will do this. I suspect if Bolt does not trial or doesn't get a contract this is the most likely scenario. Overall this is the most likely scenario.

2) Recruit as normal and hope that Mike Mulvey can improve us and we at least get to the finals. In addition Bolt is signed and we take a sugar from increased gate takings and next season we go back to scenario. This is the next likely scenario

3) Trial and sign Bolt, take the sugar hit from increased gate takings and use it to fund a stronger squad with a 'football' marquee. Give the hopefully increased crowds something to like so that they return the following season. This is the least likely scenario.

The signing of Bolt can be justified as long as he is at least as good as TBT, Austin or Appiah. However, unless we look at scenario three then by next season we will be exactly where we are now.

From a pure football aspect I follow that train of thought.
But ............. not from a “marketing the coe” stroke of genius aspect.
Remember that the original idea of the coe was to have an attractive total training package to attract teams from all over to do pre season blah blah blah. It is obviously at a stage that can now be marketed .......... high profile world renowned manager /salesman appointed. What better world recognition could be had than having bolt training there for his professional football debut. Phelan would need no introduction /foot in the door to his obvious network connections.
The problem for me is the a-league is no longer the purpose of the team. To be competitive is no longer mc’s intention. It’s that obvious isn’t it????
Letting the dds situation bubble along .......... who gives a shit that the squad is reduced by a player at the cheapest option. Another position has to be kept open for bolt whether he trains or contracts or not.
Min squad number means we can look forward to only two more inclusions and they may not be visa players that are desperatly needed.
Go figure ........... whatever happens it is going to be a long season. A parked bus and a long ball to an isolated speedster

 

[Forum Phoenix]

It has been made clear repeatedly that this is not the case.

I appreciate your passion for your position but you seem *very* blinkered on this.

Negotiating with Bolt and continuing pre-season preparation, continuing negotiations with other players etc are not mutually exclusive.

You've made a huge raft of assumptions in your post that simply are not proven as fact.

Absolutely this

 

[Forum Phoenix]

My problem with your comments are how you direct away the decision making from charlesworth and put the onus on the coaches, and trade off their committment to the team. The decision will be made by mc and phelan. It will have nothing to do with mm or monty.
Everybody that has followed the team is caught up in the splintered club that charlesworth has manufactured. everybody knows that his dream is the coe and everything else is second.
Whether bolt is good enough to be offered a contract to be decided by mm is pure bullshit. Charlesworth has installed phelan between himself and mm and the decision will be whether or not the monetary advantage is worth it. Mm is the coach of the team but phelan is over him and the manager of the coe. Look at the squad to date and you have to say he is not trying to win the league. The only news since being promised a high profile goal scorer is bolt ????........... from two weeks ago. I can’t imagine phelan would want the bolt circus to go past the trial, as the team results would surely negate any advantage gained from the pr exercise.

This owner does not get credit from past owners as to track record of producing players. He only inherited that statistic. Do not forget that he has tried to take the team away from central coast and failed in his woeful coaching appointments to date with two spoons his only credit.
Remember how it was going to be so fantastic to have the team being prepared in the coe ............ but now we find they are training at pluim park.

One thing that needs to be put in perspective................ everything discussed except for the football, gets sucked into a threeway conversation between reality, club loyalists ( god bless them ) and club history which everybody is desperately trying to hang onto. Nothing can be said against mc without club loyalists protecting him and using history of the club blah blah blah.

There is a huge difference between the player pathway of yesterday and today. Today it is to get a very cheap a-league squad whereas yesterday was to promote promising juniors into the youth setup. Reality.

Let me put this scenario:
You buy a car. You choose a holden commodore. It turns out to be a lemon.
So you get rid of it by trading it in on a new commodore. It also turns out to be a lemon. You sell it.
What car do you look to buy now ????.

Football clubs are not cars you can just get rid of by selling............... but mc can.

Onus on Shaun, and coaches, because Shaun specifically mentioned the necessity of Bolts football level being up to it and Mike etc using a trial period to look at him and no way signing him if not to standard.

Watch his interviews again. It couldn’t have been made clearer. Because they foresaw the likely shit show that might follow if they weren’t clear. But now what? ...a shit show even though they were?

So you lost me at this...
“The decision will be made by mc and phelan. It will have nothing to do with mm or monty.”

You can’t buld a strong case on a huge assumption you absolutely do not know.

That goes against what we’ve explicitly been told. I mean... you ‘can’ but it just becomes conspiracy theory thinking in order to support a position you already hold.

I’m purely working with the facts as we know them on the ground.

I still think he would fail a trial. FWIW. But willing to give him a chance. Like we do for so many others.

 

[pjennings]

From a pure football aspect I follow that train of thought.
But ............. not from a “marketing the coe” stroke of genius aspect.
Remember that the original idea of the coe was to have an attractive total training package to attract teams from all over to do pre season blah blah blah. It is obviously at a stage that can now be marketed .......... high profile world renowned manager /salesman appointed. What better world recognition could be had than having bolt training there for his professional football debut. Phelan would need no introduction /foot in the door to his obvious network connections.
The problem for me is the a-league is no longer the purpose of the team. To be competitive is no longer mc’s intention. It’s that obvious isn’t it????
Letting the dds situation bubble along .......... who gives a shit that the squad is reduced by a player at the cheapest option. Another position has to be kept open for bolt whether he trains or contracts or not.
Min squad number means we can look forward to only two more inclusions and they may not be visa players that are desperatly needed.
Go figure ........... whatever happens it is going to be a long season. A parked bus and a long ball to an isolated speedster

I gather you mean maximum squad numbers. At the moment we are at 19 (without DDS). To get to the minimum we need one more signing. To get to 23 it would be 4. Since Kekeris and Gauci are Scholarship signings we can potentially go to 25 - so up to 6 more players.

TBH the COE at it's current stage cannot be marketed to anyone. Council blocking development for the last couple of years means that has ground to a halt. That needs to be pushed ahead as well.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

This is not the way I have read the deal. Richard Hind has put it out this way but most of the others haven't. My understanding is that it if a trial take place it is simply that a trial. No-one is paying him to trial. However, there may be offers of accommodation and transport from people other than the club.

At this stage Bolt may not trial, he may trial and fail, he may trial and get a contract. My understanding is that it looks like Bolt is after $3M for a season. MC is underwriting $2.1M of that cost (in other words he likely already has sponsors to that amount) and is looking at the FFA for $900,000. i.e. MC's expense may very will be zero.

I am not of the opinion that we can't negotiate with Bolt and his agents and continue with other recruitment.

However, the argument should be a three-way one.

1) Do we recruit as normal and hope that Mike Mulvey can improve us and we at least get to the finals. This will not bring back the crowds - too many have been burnt since GA left. Only repeated success - finals and better over repeated seasons will do this. I suspect if Bolt does not trial or doesn't get a contract this is the most likely scenario. Overall this is the most likely scenario.

2) Recruit as normal and hope that Mike Mulvey can improve us and we at least get to the finals. In addition Bolt is signed and we take a sugar from increased gate takings and next season we go back to scenario. This is the next likely scenario

3) Trial and sign Bolt, take the sugar hit from increased gate takings and use it to fund a stronger squad with a 'football' marquee. Give the hopefully increased crowds something to like so that they return the following season. This is the least likely scenario.

The signing of Bolt can be justified as long as he is at least as good as TBT, Austin or Appiah. However, unless we look at scenario three then by next season we will be exactly where we are now.

Another very good post.

And my understanding from what Shaun said was that they were talking a contract, but any contract would first be subject to a trial.

To pay him millions for a trial would be madness. And I’d side with you JP on this if it was the case. Currently I don’t believe it is. And believe you are operating under a misunderstanding.

 

[Offsider]

Onus on Shaun, and coaches, because Shaun specifically said what I have said Re necessity of Bolts football level and Mike etc using a trial period to look at him and no way signing him if not to standard.

Watch his interviews again. It couldn’t have been made clearer. Because they foresaw the likely shit show that might follow if they weren’t clear. But now what? ...a shit show even though they were?

So you lost me at this...
“The decision will be made by mc and phelan. It will have nothing to do with mm or monty.”

You can’t buld a strong case on a huge assumption you absolutely do not know.

That hobexplicitly against what we’ve been told. I mean... you ‘can’ but it just becomes conspiracy theory thinking in order to support a position you already hold.

I’m purely working with the facts as we know them on the ground.

It is an assumption .......... but based on mc’s previous years of dubious decisions............ non of which promoted the club forward into a competitive position but protected the bottom line at any cost........... I believe it is more of a deduction.
I don’t know how You can be lost by mc and phelan making the decision. Phelan said he was in a position to advise mc on things football. The silence coming from mm is deafening.
As regards you are working on the facts that you know them on the ground ........... hobexplicitly ??? No idea what that word means but there seems to be a lot of confused statements as to where and how and how long the the deal to trial was being considered etc which makes me doubt “what you have been told” .............. and for the record .......... I do not hold a position. I am just concerned that the a-league team in the area that I live is going out backwards. Conspiracy theory ???? Wtf. I merely float what I read and happy to be corrected by facts, if you have them, I don’t accept as a fact what people have been told by the management of the club who doesn’t appear to care a hoot for the team or the fans of the club. If you get my drift.
For example .............. there is no information, only speculation, as to the positions looking to be filled in the squad ........ if any. The fact that that information is not available is not right .......... not even the number of players that the squad will have when completed. Other teams have full squads and playing games having well planned preseasons where today somebody declared that the team is not even training at coe but at pluim.
What’s your position about the way the club is treating the ffa cup ????.
I apologise if my disappointment for this season is misguided........... but I look forward to being proved wrong.

 

[pjennings]

Other teams have full squads and playing games having well planned preseasons where today somebody declared that the team is not even training at coe but at pluim.

I think you are jumping the gun. We would all like a more complete squad and pre-season games now but;

Perth have 19 players
Victory have 18 players
Smurfs have 16 players
Wellington have 12 players

So 4 of 10 squads have more players than we have in terms of squad completion. We are still 9 weeks away from Round 1. Most EPL teams have just started their preseason for an August start. We are 2 months later.

 

[midfielder]

Personally I am really torn on this issue.

I wanta believe we are doing this with the view that the trail is on the up and up. No pressure will be brought to bear and coaching staff were in agreement with the trail.

I also think he needs to be far better than a bench sitter as the media and Football community will apply the blow torch to all even slight errors.

Deep down in my soul I think this is wrong at a number of levels, but I also accept the need to bring in sponsors and media.

I have no idea where this could lead and IMO there is a high degree of uncertainty of even what successful outcomes will look like.

I saw Tim Cahill comment on it today and he simply said we have to see if he can play before we can make a comment and I think Timmy is right.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

It is an assumption .......... but based on mc’s previous years of dubious decisions............ non of which promoted the club forward into a competitive position but protected the bottom line at any cost........... I believe it is more of a deduction.
I don’t know how You can be lost by mc and phelan making the decision. Phelan said he was in a position to advise mc on things football. The silence coming from mm is deafening.
As regards you are working on the facts that you know them on the ground ........... hobexplicitly ??? No idea what that word means but there seems to be a lot of confused statements as to where and how and how long the the deal to trial was being considered etc which makes me doubt “what you have been told” .............. and for the record .......... I do not hold a position. I am just concerned that the a-league team in the area that I live is going out backwards. Conspiracy theory ???? Wtf. I merely float what I read and happy to be corrected by facts, if you have them, I don’t accept as a fact what people have been told by the management of the club who doesn’t appear to care a hoot for the team or the fans of the club. If you get my drift.
For example .............. there is no information, only speculation, as to the positions looking to be filled in the squad ........ if any. The fact that that information is not available is not right .......... not even the number of players that the squad will have when completed. Other teams have full squads and playing games having well planned preseasons where today somebody declared that the team is not even training at coe but at pluim.
What’s your position about the way the club is treating the ffa cup ????.
I apologise if my disappointment for this season is misguided........... but I look forward to being proved wrong.

All good Offy, I don't mind debating with opposing views.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Personally I am really torn on this issue.

I wanta believe we are doing this with the view that the trail is on the up and up. No pressure will be brought to bear and coaching staff were in agreement with the trail.

I also think he needs to be far better than a bench sitter as the media and Football community will apply the blow torch to all even slight errors.

Deep down in my soul I think this is wrong at a number of levels, but I also accept the need to bring in sponsors and media.

I have no idea where this could lead and IMO there is a high degree of uncertainty of even what successful outcomes will look like.

I saw Tim Cahill comment on it today and he simply said we have to see if he can play before we can make a comment and I think Timmy is right.

Another great post.

Here's to a good heartfelt discussion guys.

 

[pjennings]

Personally I am really torn on this issue.

I wanta believe we are doing this with the view that the trail is on the up and up. No pressure will be brought to bear and coaching staff were in agreement with the trail.

I also think he needs to be far better than a bench sitter as the media and Football community will apply the blow torch to all even slight errors.

Deep down in my soul I think this is wrong at a number of levels, but I also accept the need to bring in sponsors and media.

I have no idea where this could lead and IMO there is a high degree of uncertainty of even what successful outcomes will look like.

I saw Tim Cahill comment on it today and he simply said we have to see if he can play before we can make a comment and I think Timmy is right.

I think a lot of people are feeling exactly what you are. There is little confidence in what is going to happen or as you say what successful outcomes look like. As to believing whether the trial is on the up and up - that is something that I have wondered myself. I can see why there would be pressure for the trial to be a success - but to what end. If the guy is absolutely hopeless the extra crowds will last for one game. Equally from Bolt's point of view. If he doesn't think he is ready it would not be in his interest to sign a contract. This is where Phelan (someone he knows) needs to advise him carefully. He would be better off training until he is ready to join a club (whether here or elsewhere) at some level at a later stage where he won't look out of place.

 

[Offsider]

All good Offy, I don't mind debating with opposing views.

Oh no you don’t !!!
We are not finished yet ???? ............. you can’t claim double points for your post for using a big word “hobexplicitly” ( I was impressed) until you explain the meaning of it????. I spent three quarters of an hour trying to find the meaning ??? ......... I think you were praising my powers of deductivity but want to be sure .

and another thing ............ I want ccm to be successful and competitive, I want mm to have a magic wand that can polish turds, I want simon to have a break out year and only get offside four times a game ................. I thought you would too ??? ......... so I don’t understand your comment about “debating with opposing views” . Actually reading it again is very confusing I thought you meant me ???

But the most frustrating thing of all ..............
I asked some serious questions there that the answers to would have defeated my own argument, not that I was arguing ......... more debating ............ but you leave them unanswered ???............ and yes I did have to go to aldi for cask replenishment.

Cheers

 

[Offsider]

I think you are jumping the gun. We would all like a more complete squad and pre-season games now but;

Perth have 19 players
Victory have 18 players
Smurfs have 16 players
Wellington have 12 players

So 4 of 10 squads have more players than we have in terms of squad completion. We are still 9 weeks away from Round 1. Most EPL teams have just started their preseason for an August start. We are 2 months later.

Oh !!!......... spare me the bolt puns pls .......... .......... “jumping the gun”

All due respects to you, you are obviously more knowledgeable than I and I cherish the information you supply as gospel.......... mostly.
I am also aware of the squad numbers of the other teams and the state of their planned preseasons and note you share my disappointment at ccm’s season preparedness.
Your comment about epl and comparison of preseasons I am just going to ignore as irrelevant comparing the two leagues and I don’t follow the epl only manu.
I also find the squad numbers you quote as inconsequential, as perth for example includes five ex socceroos and extra visa players and marquee players....... can’t sort out how many of each from their site but you get my drift, compared to our meagre assortment of npl,youth,crocks and two visa players one being from thailand that as yet has not proved he is not the next faty. Throw in a couple of might be has beens and silence about any further signings for over two weeks other than a possible flash in the pan and my point is :

The worst part of trying to support the ccm is being made feel like the cocky on the biscuit tin.

 

[Gratis]

My call on Bolt - now other clubs have seen how much attention this is going to get some unscrupulous club will offer him a trial and guaranteed contract just to get him on board

 

[adz]

Someone will offer him a contract straight up, take advantage of the media circus, probably not even play him. Bit like the Hayne plane.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I really think this topic has now been done to death. All sides of the discussion have been done to death, any more would be a waste of electrons.

It is now time to sit tight and see if the trial actually happens.

Personally, reading between the lines, I doubt that it will.

If it does, what are the chances of watching the training runs? Could be interesting.

On the bright side it has given us a week of discussion without talking about the DDS situation (which is happening) or the new quality player signings that must be happening (if we are to get anywhere near cap floor).

Hoping for some clarity soon.

 

[pjennings]

Oh !!!......... spare me the bolt puns pls .......... .......... “jumping the gun”

All due respects to you, you are obviously more knowledgeable than I and I cherish the information you supply as gospel.......... mostly.
I am also aware of the squad numbers of the other teams and the state of their planned preseasons and note you share my disappointment at ccm’s season preparedness.
Your comment about epl and comparison of preseasons I am just going to ignore as irrelevant comparing the two leagues and I don’t follow the epl only manu.
I also find the squad numbers you quote as inconsequential, as perth for example includes five ex socceroos and extra visa players and marquee players....... can’t sort out how many of each from their site but you get my drift, compared to our meagre assortment of npl,youth,crocks and two visa players one being from thailand that as yet has not proved he is not the next faty. Throw in a couple of might be has beens and silence about any further signings for over two weeks other than a possible flash in the pan and my point is :

The worst part of trying to support the ccm is being made feel like the cocky on the biscuit tin.

Sorry about what was really an unintended pun - must have been the subconscious working. As for being more knowledgeable I'm just a Coastie that wants our local teams including CCMA and CCU do well and read as much as I can from as many sources as possible. There are plenty on this forum that have much more access via the club and seem to be privy to more info than me.

I'm happy to share the facts I find and also to offer an opinion (in case you haven't noticed) . The facts you can take as gospel (or you can filter based on the source), the opinions are just my own biased views and no more valid or invalid than anyone else's.

As Ancient Mariner has said though - the topic has been done to death until we hear something more concrete one way or another.

 

[Rowdy]

Why Usain wins even if he bolts from Mariners deal:


UPDATEDUPDATED 6 HOURS AGO
BY DAVE LEWIS

As quickly as he sprinted onto the A-League horizon, Usain Bolt may now be dashing in the other direction, with the main beneficiary of the frenzied publicity blitz surrounding his brief flirtation with Central Coast Mariners being the eight-time Olympic champion’s multi-million dollar brand.

Anything Football Federation Australia and Mariners could pay him for a professional contract is chicken feed compared with the main game of perpetuating Bolt’s significance as an iconic figure worthy of generating millions of sponsorship dollars in perpetuity.

His contract with main backer Puma was worth $18.4 million last year - more than Cristiano Ronaldo nets from Nike - and he is tied to the German sports apparel giant until 2025.

He earned an estimated $43 million last year - making him the 32nd-highest paid sportsmen in the planet - and is thought to be worth at least $85 million.

His corporate backers also include Gatorade, Hublot, Virgin Media and Nissan Motors, with deals ranging up to $3.5 million annually.

But too much is never enough when it comes to the canny management of his long-time agent, former Irish middle distance runner Ricky Simms, who masterminds Bolt’s business empire from above Simms Opticians in the sedate south-west London suburb of Teddington.

“Realistically, all Usain has ever known is making loads of money using sponsorships and the power of social media, and his agent knows that,” said the analyst.

“Even if he was going to play football professionally he’d make far more in the MLS, Europe or Asia than Australia, which is a very limited market for him in terms of sponsorships.

“I think Ricky is playing a clever game - he’s trying to keep Usain relevant with high levels of publicity, whilst very possibly negotiating with various sponsors behind the scenes.

“It’s all about demonstrating that even a story as relatively minor as this generates so many millions of hits on social media.”

Since the story broke earlier this week, independent media analysis shows over 130 million people worldwide have digested the news.

“Usain is in his post-career stage and when negotiating contracts with sponsors, whether new deals or extensions, you need to go in on the front foot and demonstrate your continuing cache across the board,” added the analyst.

“If Bolt were to actually end up as a footballer that would be just a by-product and a bonus.

“There are different layers to this episode with the Mariners, and football is probably the very least of it.”

Whilst Bolt appears to have led a willing Central Coast into what may prove a cul-de-sac, there may be positive spin-offs for the Gosford club, in terms of their own relevance, whether he comes or not.

It would seem probably not, with Simms appearing to be trying to let the Mariners down gently by leaking interest from the US, Turkey and Hungary in Bolt ‘the footballer’.

“Either way Central Coast could gain from the experience because they have (two) visa spots available and they are also, I believe, trying to sign actual footballers,” said the analyst.

“All this publicity has helped because if Bolt came then you could sell it as a project playing alongside him, with a big torch shining on the club.

“If not then the club has at least announced its presence as an existing entity to a wider market.

“Many will see the whole thing as farcical, but it’s manna from heaven for the Mariners and their owner [Mike Charlesworth] in terms of a spike in publicity.

“But there is also the downside of the club being seen as a bit of joke.

“Perhaps now might be a good time for both the Mariners and the A-League to move on and get on with dealing with genuine footballers and the business of improving the game in Australia.”

..... I think the above article hits the nail right on the head, on all aspects of this scenario with Usain Bolt.

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

Thanks everyone for a wonderful discussion. I may disagree on a few points but it's great we can have one without personal attacks. I know everyone just wants what is best for the club, we just have disagreements on how that happens.