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Referees 2011

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
May be old news but I have been away.
My nephew a referee has told me that CCF have taken over the referees.
Seems the old Referee's Association and their members were given no option. If you want to referee in 2011 you had to join the CCF Referees.
From what I have subsequently learned only about 50% of the previous referees have joined up with CCF. Have also heard that new referees courses have 80 applicants but only 5 of these are seniors.
Whilst we all have a grouch against referees I cannot see the necessity for a change and cannot see where such a change will benefit anything. Seems we ae destined to have fewer referees this year.
I always believe that if something is not broken why change it. Seems old referee's association was working as well as ir could with the numbers available, so why should CCF take it over?
Then talking to my club I found out a possible reason. Seems the CCF will take about $40,000 into their funds from the administration of the referees through admin fees and profit.
Has anyone else heard more information on this subject?
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
there's no such thing as 'profit' in non-profit organisations. there aren't fatcats sitting on piles of gold anywhere. every association is the same - there's a small amount of money that goes on wages and basically every other dollar goes back into the game.

rather giving unsourced gossip, do you want to contact CCF, ask them directly, and let us know?

quoting 'my club' has no currency when we don't know who you are, who your club is or who it is at your club that is saying this. someone could make up any old shit and post it the same way and have the same level of credibility.
 

Coastie

New Member
Luvsoccer I have to disagree with you.

I've been reffing for 5 years on the central coast and the change couldn't have come at a better time. Although full credit to the old organisation for all the hard work and dedication. but there comes a time in every organisation, not just sporting but corporate level when you need a shake up.

You are wrong about only 50% of referees re-joining, i have seen a list and while some have left we have atleast 250+ members this year.

You are correct that 80 new referees sat the course this year and yes only 5 were seniors, although we have a great number of younger referees that are quite eligable to be pushing for 1st and reserve grade games this year.

Yes CCFRI did work well but i believe this new branch will work better, for the first time on the central coast training sessions have been running specifically for referees which have been well attended. somthing that has never happend before. A few fresh faces with some experinced members of the old branch will hopefully breath new life into the organisation.

CCF have promised to put back every cent the referees branch earns back into referees development and etc.

Hope that answers a few of ur concerns.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
CCF has delivered the same ultimatum to CCRFRI before - come under our banner or we'll hire our own referees and won't allow CCFRI referees to be appointed. This came a number of seasons ago, but that stick came with a carrot - promising that they'd throw about $40k towards the referees association to hire a full-time person in charge of referee development, and that a CCF board member would sit on the CCFRI board (can't remember if it was the same in reverse as well). Left with no choice whatsoever from this arrogant, aggressive proposal, we submitted (and I'm sure CCF were dancing around the office - they've been trying hard to take over CCFRI since before I started reffing, over 10 years ago).

Of course, this was the season when CCF were found to be heavily in debt, and couldn't deliver on the money they promised. A lot of referees were angry - and rightly so - at the blatant lies and arrogance shown by CCF, but as they broke the contract we were able to tell them to take a walk.

Since then there's obviously been some big changes, with Darren Sprod taking over CCF and a few other referee directors jumping to 'the dark side', but I heard some of them left since. Regardless, from what I understand, Darren saw a take-over of CCFRI by CCF as inevitable, especially given that such a structure was stipulated under the Crawford Report, IIRC. CCF/CCFRI were one of the few remaining separated organisations.

Personally, I hated the idea (not that I'm on the coast anymore, but I still take an interest in what's happening) - CCF have often dealt with referees in a manner that could be described as contemptuous at worst (don't get me started on the judiciary!!) , or ignorant of the issues surrounding referees at best. With the attitudes CCF have repeated displayed towards CCFRI over the years, it was widely believed that a takeover would be the worst possible thing for the referees.

Going back to what I said about Darren seeing a takeover as inevitable, I believe he then wanted to take the opportunity, whilst in power, to set up the new structure in a way that would benefit referees interests as much as possible, as a future director may well either not care or not like referees (something that seems to be a common attitude in the past throughout the CCF directorship), so from what I've heard he felt that doing it now, with him able to oversee the merge, was in the long-term best interest.

I'm not sure of the details (or even if Sprod is still involved), but sometimes change is inevitable.

As for the large intake of new referees - CCFRI have been taking in 60+ new members for quite a few years when I was still involved, yet the numbers seemed to remain constant at around the 200 mark (after a rapid increase after about 12 years ago), with a smaller number of that being active members. An interesting observation, and having too many referees is a bad thing for the referees themselves, as then each member gets fewer games and may then turn to more productive ways to spend their weekend, so a balance is needed - but we've been able to achieve 90-100% coverage of games for periods of time only a few seasons ago.

Of course, having such a large intake means there's going to be 80 referees running around in a few weeks who barely know what they're doing, but it's oh-so-easy to condemnt from the sidelines. Go easy; these guys are doing their best and abusing the referees, either experienced or inexperienced, is only going to harm the game as it drives referees away.

Chances are, most of those 80 referees will quit within a few seasons, but a few may stick around longer - and some may show some particular talent. The referees as a whole have improved steadily since I joined, partly as a result of the introduction of certain new members, partly due to changes in management, and partly due to structural and organisational changes necessary to deal with the significantly increased numbers.

Getting referees to training sessions, even meetings, has always been a big challenge - so I don't know what they've done to accomplish this, but it seems like a great thing that referees are attending these sessions in numbers.

Of course some members left; unfortunately, some of those are probably the more experienced ones who have been around long enough to see what low regard CCF has always held its referees in. If everything I've talked about is correct, then perhaps now is the best time for an inevitable takeover, for better or for worse.

If things turn out worse, then as CCF members you can pressure your club delegates to start demanding answers and demanding change - or respond through the ballot at the next AGM.
 

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
there's no such thing as 'profit' in non-profit organisations. there aren't fatcats sitting on piles of gold anywhere. every association is the same - there's a small amount of money that goes on wages and basically every other dollar goes back into the game.

Dibo

With regard to allocation of Referees income I have obtained a copy of the CCF budget for 2010-2011, the upcoming season.

Figures shown in there for referees are:-

Income $73,000
Expenses
Administration 4,000
Capitation 9,000
Referees Gear 13,500
Referees Development 12,000
Total Expenses $38,500

Sub total $34,500

Allocation to CCF Administration Costs $19,545
Net Profit $14,955

The allocation to CCF Administration costs is to cover a proportion of all outgoings of CCF including Office rent, and wages and other outgoings on items including, but other than, Referees. In other words $19,545 of the referees’ moneys are to be applied to general CCF outgoings and not specifically applied for the benefit of referees.

On the basis of these official CCF figures the referees are being shrt changed to the amount of $34,500.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
To be pedantic (how unlike me) profit in this circumstance (i.e. when discussing profit vs non-profit) is talking about organization level accounts, not whether or not one program cross-subsidizes another.

With the surplus funds, what's the nature of the income and how will refs be paid? What will the surplus funds be put towards?

You've got the budget, you can let us know.
 

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
To be pedantic (how unlike me) profit in this circumstance (i.e. when discussing profit vs non-profit) is talking about organization level accounts, not whether or not one program cross-subsidizes another.

With the surplus funds, what's the nature of the income and how will refs be paid? What will the surplus funds be put towards?

You've got the budget, you can let us know.

Dido
As I stated on another thread you said you are not from this area. Again what is your interest and agenda?
I have family playing here so we need to know. You apparently do not. Where are you from?
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
I played eleven seasons at Gosford from 89-99 and have since played in Sydney. I've got an interest in that it is my old stomping ground, but moreover I just get the shits at people having a shot at others from behind the cloak of anonymity. I don't much give a shit if you don't like it.
 

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
I played eleven seasons at Gosford from 89-99 and have since played in Sydney. I've got an interest in that it is my old stomping ground, but moreover I just get the shits at people having a shot at others from behind the cloak of anonymity. I don't much give a shit if you don't like it.

Whilst I do not believe in lowering myself to those of others I would say to you...You are no longer involved so butt out. Let those directly concerned have their say without interference from those who no longer belong.

Do not try to iterfere with an area which does not concern you. Or are you just another person with noting more in your life, IF THE LATTER SEEK HELP. Stay away from our forums.
 

luvsoccer

Well-Known Member
It's a free world pal. I'll post where I please.

Go home. You are not Central Coast.
You obviously do not like where you are so do not deride others.
Do not stick up for a regime for whom you no longer belong otherwise what you say will not be believed.
 

timmers

Well-Known Member
Its a public forum champ, just because someone doesn't live in an area doesn't mean they can't have an interest and opinion on how things should happen. I think its chill pill time.
 

scottmac

Suspended
Go home. You are not Central Coast.
You obviously do not like where you are so do not deride others.
Do not stick up for a regime for whom you no longer belong otherwise what you say will not be believed.

So because someone has taken an interest in your post and has responded in a mature and level headed way with questions and points that are not without reason or validity you tell him to go home ??? Isnt the point of a forum to share opinions and discussion?

The question from Dibo in regards to the surplus funds is key in your gripe. What is it being put towards and why have you taken such umbrage when the question was asked?
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Whilst I do not believe in lowering myself to those of others I would say to you...You are no longer involved so butt out. Let those directly concerned have their say without interference from those who no longer belong.

Do not try to iterfere with an area which does not concern you. Or are you just another person with noting more in your life, IF THE LATTER SEEK HELP. Stay away from our forums.

You do realise this is an internet forum, yes?

Therefore it's a free for all - he can post about whatever he likes on here!

sheesh!

He has every right to maintain an interest in his old stomping ground, and CCF can choose whether to respond to him or not.

If he believes there's an issue, then the fact that he's no longer a local has absolutely nothing to do with whether he should be able to raise it on here - in fact, if he's pointing out a concern then he's doing those still involved with the game on the coast a favour anyway

It's becoming rather apparent that this thread is about having a whinge, rather than seeking answers - dibo asked some rather relevant questions of your complaints, and rather than respond you attacked him directly.

This thread could actually have some worthwhile discussion if you'll drop the attitude and engage in some actual discussion instead of personal attacks.

As they say - attack the argument, not the man.
 

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