Formula 1

[scottmac]

Horner won't like to see either of his drivers aggressively defending against the other. It's always risky. Running an opponent wide or closing the door is always riskier than opening the door and trying to take the spot back later.

Horner's view is that a driver should always take an advantage where it's there and Vettel got a far better run on the preceding corner, hence he was alongside and probably half in front.

Horner won't want Vettel to be squeezed up because there's the chance that braking on the marbles he'll shoot straight off. RBR would want the line to be opened up so both cars (and 43 points) make it round the corner intact.

Vettel wasn't squeezed up. He was left a straight line into the next corner and not the optimum one. Instead Vettel chose to swerve infront of Mark expecting him to brake and let him through on the prefered line.

He chose to try and pass there. When he didn't get clear in front why should Mark surrender his 1st from pole to someone that couldn't keep the Mclarens at bay?

Something dodgy going on and i'm inclined to agree that RBR think Vettel is more of a chance for the drivers title and therefore favour him.

 

 

[dibo]

Vettel wasn't squeezed up. He was left a straight line into the next corner and not the optimum one. Instead Vettel chose to swerve infront of Mark expecting him to brake and let him through on the prefered line.

I think Vettel was trying to muscle Webber out and Webber was holding his line in a similarly muscular way. To Vettel it feels like Webber goes left because relative to the racing line he *does*. He ran out wider on the exit to squeeze Vettel for the next corner. This is perfectly normal defence of a position. He didn't swerve towards Vettel. He didn't block or weave.

Given the next corner was a left right, Vettel had a clear line to pass up the inside. He would have had to brake earlier, but had he held his line down to the next left he would have made it through anyway because Webber wouldn't have risked closing the door and having him overshoot and take them both out. Webber would have essentially tried to watch Vettel overshoot and duck up the inside as he passed by.

We've got different definitions of squeezed. Vettel was pushed out wide onto the marbles but completely legitimately. I don't have any issue with what Webber did. Vettel misjudged.

Had Mark eased over and let him through the outcome would clearly have been better for the team, but the same thing holds if Vettel had simply tried to make the pass stick at the following corner.

He chose to try and pass there. When he didn't get clear in front why should Mark surrender his 1st from pole to someone that couldn't keep the Mclarens at bay?

That's part of the misjudgement.

Something dodgy going on and i'm inclined to agree that RBR think Vettel is more of a chance for the drivers title and therefore favour him.

Why? Vettel had more fuel and could run with more power for reasons that seem entirely plausible. The team hasn't flayed him alive for the press's and our pleasure, but that's not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that in the aftermath Horner lamented the muscular racing between the two when such a clear comparison is available in the McLaren team where they didn't touch and so came in 1-2.

 

[tuftman]

I ranted about this on another forum, but as a team and 2 drivers racing for the title its a complete f**kup on Horner, Vettel and Webbers(and possibly Helmut Marko, who acts as a consultant of some sort within the team, but seems rather important) behalf, but thats just my opinion. As a racing incident I see it as being probably 80-20 Vettels fault, dunno why Webber decided he needed to push his own teammate THAT far left and take them both onto the part of the track thats dirtier then a whore in Vegas. But that said, Vettel did carry on a bit much(heat of the moment I guess) and shouldn't have moved so suddenly.

bottom line - McLaren 1-2

 

[Bex]

Yeh, I'm with you Tuftman, the issue I think Horner has with Webber is that Vettel was clearly past Webber yet Webber still chose to keep squeezing which just makes both of them slower through the corner and exposes both cars to more risk of a collision.

At the end of the day, the collision wasn't caused by slightly more risk in the corner; it was caused by a spiteful swerve to the right from Vettel that bit him on the arse big time. My guess is that Vettel did not appreciate being squeezed quite so hard and so pretended that he thought Webber had conceded the position which would then teach Webber a lesson not to squeeze so hard.

In my opinion though, Webber is showing he is actually becoming a racer with the desire to win and the ability to defend his line without cracking under the pressure; something he has been missing in his career thus far and I'm really pleased to see it.

Whilst it wasn't pretty, Webber is now the clear championship leader and Vettel will think twice about playing hardball with Webber in the future. I've seen plenty of World Champions that have had a few incidents like that during a season with their arch rival.

Keep up the great work Mark.

 

[scottmac]

Something dodgy going on and i'm inclined to agree that RBR think Vettel is more of a chance for the drivers title and therefore favour him.

Why? Vettel had more fuel and could run with more power for reasons that seem entirely plausible. The team hasn't flayed him alive for the press's and our pleasure, but that's not a surprise. Nor is it a surprise that in the aftermath Horner lamented the muscular racing between the two when such a clear comparison is available in the McLaren team where they didn't touch and so came in 1-2.

I'm sorry but i don't accept those bullshit low on fuel calls by the team. Its just another way of the teams contolling results without giving team orders.

Tell me, how did Vettell happen to gain 1kg of fuel by being in the draft but Button and Hamilton did not? They were both "low on fuel" also at differing times. Hamilton and Button were ordered onto fuel saving power but when Button overtook, Hamilton responded and his time dropped by a second and a half a lap. Not the actions of someone who is struggling to make the distance.

Reaks of teams trying to control results as we all know they have done. It would be very naieve to think that they have given up on favouring drivers.

 

[Bex]

Team orders will exist whilstever teams exist. I reckon it rather bizarre that they've made team orders illegal. After all, its a team sport.

 

[serious14]

Went on a road trip this last week and a half - managed to make it to two tracks (one on purpose, one whose sign I just happened to see by accident whilst on the autobahn).

 

[Bex]

jealous much. au rouge, one of the most (if not the most) famous corners in motorsport.

 

[serious14]

jealous much. au rouge, one of the most (if not the most) famous corners in motorsport.

Through sheer luck (we honestly had no idea there was any motorsport on there that particular week), we turned up around 5.30pm, and there was around 20 or so Audi TT's tearing around the track (as per the photo's).  I can only assume it was some sort of European Touring Car Championship practice session thingy - I was lucky enough to get into the main grandstand and watch them come flying down the straight and up Eau Rouge.

It looks fucking amazing enough on television, but when you see it driven on in real life.... it's nothing short of a "jaw on the floor, giggling like a schoolgirl" moment.

It's steeper than it looks too - which just makes it all the more awesome.