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Ditch the salary cap?

MagpieMariner

Well-Known Member
One of the reasons I don't follow the big overseas leagues. Unless you follow one of the big money teams, your only interest is to see your team doesn't get relegated. Boring.
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
If you want a really well resourced four team league, sure.
That's what I thought but after reading that article it doesn't seem so simple.
From the article:
"Sanfrecce Hiroshima have an A-League-like budget yet won back to back titles in 2012 and 2013."
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
One of the reasons I don't follow the big overseas leagues. Unless you follow one of the big money teams, your only interest is to see your team doesn't get relegated. Boring.
Take Everton as an example, while they might not be pushing for league wins they sometimes bag the FA Cup and any team in the EPL on their day can beat any other.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
That's what I thought but after reading that article it doesn't seem so simple.
From the article:
"Sanfrecce Hiroshima have an A-League-like budget yet won back to back titles in 2012 and 2013."
That's pretty misleading. Their club profile on Transfermarkt suggests the transfer values of their players is approx EUR14m, only EUR3m behind Urawa but a long way ahead of the bottom 4 clubs.

Our squad is valued at EUR6m, behind Sydney on EUR9m. But the gap from top to bottom is about 2:1 vs nearly 4:1, and that also means Hiroshima's squad is worth ~50% more than any A-League squad.

In the EPL it's 10:1, and 2:1 from top to 5th out of 20! All the bottom six can ever hope for is to avoid relegation.

I really don't think he's considered that we're talking about a much smaller league, where clubs are on the edge of viability. In other sport markets, clubs very rarely actually die. Even in US sports, clubs are relocated rather than killed off. In this market they do die, and this league has seen it happen three times already. The NSL before it (with no cap) saw it far more often than that! Our league isn't old enough and our market isn't mature enough to deal with clubs that will only ever fight to avoid the spoon.
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
That's pretty misleading. Their club profile on Transfermarkt suggests the transfer values of their players is approx EUR14m, only EUR3m behind Urawa but a long way ahead of the bottom 4 clubs.

Our squad is valued at EUR6m, behind Sydney on EUR9m. But the gap from top to bottom is about 2:1 vs nearly 4:1, and that also means Hiroshima's squad is worth ~50% more than any A-League squad.
Nice de-bunking job.
Probably should have checked the figures myself, I thought that J-League budget was surprisingly small.
In the EPL it's 10:1, and 2:1 from top to 5th out of 20! All the bottom six can ever hope for is to avoid relegation.
More or less but it's not a given. Swansea came in and have done well with a combination of good football and smart governance. It's a supporters trust too if I'm not mistaken.
I really don't think he's considered that we're talking about a much smaller league, where clubs are on the edge of viability. In other sport markets, clubs very rarely actually die. Even in US sports, clubs are relocated rather than killed off. In this market they do die, and this league has seen it happen three times already. The NSL before it (with no cap) saw it far more often than that! Our league isn't old enough and our market isn't mature enough to deal with clubs that will only ever fight to avoid the spoon.
You are probably right with our unique circumstances. Football still needs to be carried to some degree.
Without pro/rel there doesn't seem much point to dropping the cap and even that is not a requisite.

It makes for an interesting debate though.
What do you think of pro/rel?
 

MagpieMariner

Well-Known Member
Take Everton as an example, while they might not be pushing for league wins they sometimes bag the FA Cup and any team in the EPL on their day can beat any other.
Yes, sometimes bag the cup, but that's not what they play for primarily is it? When did Everton last win the league? In fact when did anyone out of the current big 4 last win the league?
I agree that any team on their day can beat any other, but for most of the teams, their day comes about once a season or two. Even worse in Scotland, I read somewhere it's been over 20 years since their league was won by someone other than Celtic/Rangers.
I'm not knocking other people having an interest in these kind of leagues, but it's not for me, I find the same teams winning all the time dead boring. That I believe is what will happen here if we do away with the cap.
 

BrisRecky

I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
They ditch the cap and death bells will be tolling shortly thereafter...unless you want to watch MV v MCFC v Syd v Add your fourth team, probably Perth or Brissy, every week
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
17 APR 2015 - 3:54PM
TWG: MARINERS BOSS CALLS FOR SALARY CAP TO BE SCRAPPED

Although the cash-strapped Mariners would be one of the teams significantly disadvantaged by a lifting of the existing $2.55 million wage ceiling, Charlesworth said that if clubs can afford to splash the cash they should be allowed to because it “would raise the level of the competition”.

Mindful not to condone Glory’s excesses, which brought the club a $269,000 fine and will see it relegated to a seventh-place finish this season, Charlesworth said the system needs a shake-up.

“I don't think the cap should be so rigid,” he said. “If clubs want to invest, within reason, they should be allowed to do so.

“People would argue it would be to the detriment of the little guys like the Mariners, but I don’t see it that way.

“If the clubs are prepared to spend money on building bigger squads with better players that can only be a plus for the league in general.

“I am a supporter of anything which helps grow the game and our club as a business can grow on the back of the growth of the league.”

Pressed on how much leeway potential big spenders should be allowed, Charlesworth replied: “I don’t know what the exact percentage should be but the point is that you don’t want to restrict investment in a developing competition.

“If people are prepared to spend their money on the product, then good luck to them.”

Well-resourced sides like Melbourne Victory, Sydney FC and Melbourne City would be likely beneficiaries of such a system.

Charlesworth, who failed in his recent bid to convince Football Federation Australia (FFA) to expand the competition into Asia with the introduction of teams from nations like Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, added: “In my view the league needs a shot in the arm right now, and it’s crazy not to allow clubs to invest.”

He acknowledged that were the A-League’s elite unencumbered by the straitjacket of the cap the likes of the Mariners and Newcastle Jets would be “less competitive”.

But he doesn’t see that as a threat to their long-term survival.

“If you are adding value to the league and you have bigger clubs bringing big-name players to Central Coast Stadium then it puts bums on seats and benefits all," he argued.

“Does Burnley want to be playing against teams like Rotherham and Fulham in the Premier League? The answer is no. They want be playing Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

“It’s not so much a question of whether it's fair or not. It's more the fact It works. Obviously the FFA is seeking to protect the smaller clubs but I don't think the existing system is necessarily the right way to go about it.

“I get the fact that the FFA believes in a level playing field for all and is trying to preserve that.

“It's true that It makes the league more competitive and interesting, but as long as the little guys are still funded and can survive, does having clubs with bigger budgets really matter? Survival is what really matters.

“Do the people on the Central Coast want a club in among the big boys or do they not want a club at all? Of course they want a club.

“If we are seen as the battlers forever and a day I think the people would buy into that.

“As long as the money (from the TV deal) is distributed evenly across all the clubs, then if certain teams want to spend more to build up their business, why should they be stopped?

“If the rich are getting richer and also the poor are getting richer, that can only be good for the game.”

Addressing Glory’s breaches, Charlesworth added: “Obviously they have broken the rules and there should of course be some penalty.

“The club may have gone about things the wrong way, but the sentiment of investment is right.

“Tony Sage has been penalised for investing money and trying to build his club.

“Unfortunately, we are having to go the other way and cut our costs. With that in mind, arguably it’s us who are damaging the brand more.”
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Do the people on the Central Coast want a club in among the big boys or do they not want a club at all? Of course they want a club.

False dichotomy much?

If we are seen as the battlers forever and a day I think the people would buy into that.

"Come see the perennial battlers lose to teams with better players than we can possibly afford" does not a good billboard make.
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
Yeah:

1. Get rid of the salary cap
2. The larger clubs (megas) with wealthy owners flourish
3. The minnows (us!) spend a bit more to try and remain competitive
4. As a consequence of the cap removal and the extra marketing etc. leverage gained by the megas the sale value of the SFC's et al rise considerably
5. Following on from that the sale value of the minnows (us et al!) also rise considerably in line with the increase in value of the megas
6. MC makes a huge profit on the sale of his A-League license to some other wealthy mug

That's my take on the scenario presented above if the salary cap is removed.

Even if it were doubled that would put the minnows at a grave disadvantage.
imo the cap *should* be raised by an amount commensurate with the increase in the income derived from the changed broadcasting rights, but no further, and in a gradual process that would allow all clubs and the marketplace to adapt.
 

kevrenor

Well-Known Member
17 APR 2015 - 3:54PM
TWG: MARINERS BOSS CALLS FOR SALARY CAP TO BE SCRAPPED

Although the cash-strapped Mariners would be one of the teams significantly disadvantaged by a lifting of the existing $2.55 million wage ceiling, Charlesworth said that if clubs can afford to splash the cash they should be allowed to because it “would raise the level of the competition”.”

I think the man is a fool ... misguided and ignorant perhaps, but a fool in this context indeed.

He never disappoints.
 

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