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Coronavirus App

midfielder

Well-Known Member
For every person its a personal call.

To some extent it depends how much skin you have in the game.

To explain, my families positions.

Wife School Teacher ... Epping Boys

Oldest Son... Manager of a large Woolies in Eastern Sydney .

Oldest's Son's wife... Nurse in Eastern Sydney

Middle son ... Works in a abattoir it runs 24 hours a day 362 days a year.

Middle Sons Wife ... Is a senior pathologist in a major hospital

Third Son single... Works as a "White Knight " in IT i.e internet security working from home in a very secure job.

A close mate ... inner city bus driver ...

Aside from my third son every other member of my family is in front line services and with a far higher risk of catching Cov 19.

Given tracing is critical and life saving and my "White Knight" son has told me its quite safe and it only records phone numbers not where you are or what time of day.

I contrast my position to my next door neighbour... he is a web designer and often works from home his wife is a marketing executive and can work from home, there children are still of school age ...

In my position I think we need to protect front line workers and have 5 out of 6 family members in front line positions.... my neighbour's position he has no one close to him that works in a front line position and therefore does not need to consider the risk his family members are taking.

For me as I said it depends on how much skin you have in the game.

In my life time the only thing that comes close is in December 1972, 18 year olds where given the right to vote, and Gough promised to stop conscription ... my guess is most 18 to 21 year old boys and there mothers voted for Gough as no one wanted to go war. we had skin in the game.

I am in and will get it.
 

Charlie1

Member
Yes I have got it as a bus driver and wife working in retail. Personally I think they know what we do where we go anyway so if this app can help I’m in.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Given this government's deceit and massive scale creep over metadata retention as well as the number of times that data has been illegally accessed, without any sanction, by the authorities (not to mention Herr Dutton having made his desire for a surveillance and police state very clear), it's a 'hard no' from me.
Sure, security experts have said that the app is fine.
But, it only takes a single update to change everything. If you're getting the app, you're 'trusting' the government not to change anything. This government has done nothing to deserve such trust, and everything to deserve mistrust.
This isn't coming from some general, 'don't trust the gubment' sort of thing - it's a direct response to how this particular government has repeatedly handled our privacy, democracy, the law and accountability.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Given this government's deceit and massive scale creep over metadata retention as well as the number of times that data has been illegally accessed, without any sanction, by the authorities (not to mention Herr Dutton having made his desire for a surveillance and police state very clear), it's a 'hard no' from me.
Sure, security experts have said that the app is fine.
But, it only takes a single update to change everything. If you're getting the app, you're 'trusting' the government not to change anything. This government has done nothing to deserve such trust, and everything to deserve mistrust.
This isn't coming from some general, 'don't trust the gubment' sort of thing - it's a direct response to how this particular government has repeatedly handled our privacy, democracy, the law and accountability.

The app as I understands does not recall where you are, it simply records if in a 21 day period you were within 1.5 meters of someone who tests positive ... if you have fly bys, use a credit or debit card for purchases, have a facebook account, have goggle roaming on your phone they already know everything about you.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
The app as I understands does not recall where you are, it simply records if in a 21 day period you were within 1.5 meters of someone who tests positive
Yes....and as I said, any of that can change in an update. Just look at the scope creep of the metadata retention - for something that was only to be used to fight terrorism, now councils are using it to chase up parking offenders.

... if you have fly bys, use a credit or debit card for purchases, have a facebook account, have goggle roaming on your phone they already know everything about you.

those organisations do, yes. I've made the decision to enter in a commercial agreement with them.
That's not comparable to government tracking.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Im laughing at the people who think this is somehow intrusive but have facebook or a google account - the government already know where you are and who you are.
Grow the f**k up and help keep other people safe
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Im laughing at the people who think this is somehow intrusive but have facebook or a google account - the government already know where you are and who you are.
Grow the f**k up and help keep other people safe
....having a facebook or google account doesn't mean Mein Kipfler is tracking me.

As for your post? Keep it civil. It's possible to have a discussion without trying to belittle or swear at each other.
 
Last edited:

pjennings

Well-Known Member
The point is like everything so far is doing something that might have been good when needed - but is too late or pointing to other problems.

WHO issues a world wide emergency alert at the end of January at a time we had 2 know cases. What did we do. We shut travel from China and said we would monitor airports and ports.

1) This was wrong in singling out China. The thing to do was to shut down international travel immediately. Test around those two while contact tracing was easy.

2) Secondly we did not monitor. Dutton's department did not control and monitor either the ports or airports.

Because of that stuff up we needed the shut down. Again it was late and the Federal govt were dragged kicking and screaming by Daniel Andrews. Most large business had already planned for working from home. I started working from home about 2 and half weeks before the recommendations.

This would not have been needed if (1) and (2) were done.

The financial package did not kick in until April. It should have
a) gone directly to employees
b) gone to contractors
c) gone to international student that work
d) be paid 'not in arrears'

By going to employers (who have had a habit of wage theft) we are asking for trouble. There are many stories of employers saying give me half or it is not worth me doing the paperwork.

Even if employers want to get the jobkeeper they have to pay the employees and trust the government to pay it later all while little revenue is coming in. Most have to borrow for that, then get reimbursed then borrow again. Many businesses already have heavy debt. For many it is easier to just shut up shop.

International students are returning to their home countries. They are a large component of the rentals around universities as well as temporary workers in the area. so leaving them off has hurt the universities, landlords and others who share with them as well as local business. This will not snap back.

But back to the tracing app. It wouldn't be needed if we reacted well to begin with. It was needed when our cases were growing exponentially. It is not needed now.

There are now 945 active cases. There are 2 on the Central Coast, 0 in the ACT, 3 in NT, 14 in SA, 36 in WA and 52 in Victoria.

The only real areas where there are larger numbers are 64 in Tas (mostly NW), 84 in QLD, mostly in Brisbane and 692 in NSW, mostly in Sydney.

Even so, the health authorities are on top of the tracing because of the current restrictions. Are we expecting skyrocketing numbers again? That is the only reason we would need it

If we are, then we should not be easing restrictions until we are happier that we know where we are -
-sure we know where the cases are,
-we have tested in the general community to an extent that we know there is not not a large unreported cohort of cases
- are we are ready to react quickly to localised outbreaks.

To do other than that means we are not handling the health outbreak properly and we will have to shutdown again. Dumb on a health level and dumb on an economic level.
 
Last edited:

midfielder

Well-Known Member
PJ

The blame game and who should have done what when still needs to be exploded and I am sure will be in the future.

However slack and however many errors our governments made by world standards they collectively have done well, maybe by accident and more than likely by Australian having a plan in place with training carried out for things like tracing many times over the years.

BUT we are where we are ... and to this end front like workers need to be protected as best we can and I have 5 out 7 family members in front line service jobs... as far as I know the take up rate by nurses, doctors is almost 100% ...

For me and I have lots of shin in the game we should take up the app to help protect front line workers ... as tracing is seen as critical in stopping the spread if another outbreak occurs.
 

Big Al

Well-Known Member
I have it but no idea if it works.
I catch the train so think it’s worth it

however 15mins is way to long. Doesn’t take that long to pass it on. Could be a cough etc. I think it should track a lot quicker. Especially if it’s only for the health department.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Thats a good point - other than the Mrs, I havent been within 1.5m of anyone for >15 minutes well...............since last CCM home game really. I reckon when Scomo looks at my log on the app (hey according to the boomers he is watching us) he will say "this poor bastard needs to get a life"
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
PJ

The blame game and who should have done what when still needs to be exploded and I am sure will be in the future.

However slack and however many errors our governments made by world standards they collectively have done well, maybe by accident and more than likely by Australian having a plan in place with training carried out for things like tracing many times over the years.

BUT we are where we are ... and to this end front like workers need to be protected as best we can and I have 5 out 7 family members in front line service jobs... as far as I know the take up rate by nurses, doctors is almost 100% ...

For me and I have lots of shin in the game we should take up the app to help protect front line workers ... as tracing is seen as critical in stopping the spread if another outbreak occurs.

I also have a daughter who is a nurse and my son's fiance is as well.

Forget about the blame game the main thing is that the health authorities are on top of the tracing because of the current restrictions. Are we expecting skyrocketing numbers again? That is the only reason we would need it.

It is almost like they are expecting a huge breakout. If they are not confident they should keep restrictions until they are.

The app is only a tool - a tool that would be needed in a big outbreak. The nuts and bolts of tracing still needs to happen.

My concern is the pushing for the uptake in the app points to uneasiness in easing restrictions. If they are uneasy with easing restrictions - DON'T!! If we have an large outbreak again 2 things will happen.

1) The next shutdown will be longer and possibly more limiting.
2) People will be less likely to co-operate again

The other thing about the app is that many smart phones are owned by large companies (including mine). Many of these companies do not want extra apps on their phones.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
however 15mins is way to long. Doesn’t take that long to pass it on. Could be a cough etc. I think it should track a lot quicker. Especially if it’s only for the health department.
I haven’t double checked but read it as 15minutes in general proximity or within 1.5m for any length of time.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
I also have a daughter who is a nurse and my son's fiance is as well.

Forget about the blame game the main thing is that the health authorities are on top of the tracing because of the current restrictions. Are we expecting skyrocketing numbers again? That is the only reason we would need it.

It is almost like they are expecting a huge breakout. If they are not confident they should keep restrictions until they are.

The app is only a tool - a tool that would be needed in a big outbreak. The nuts and bolts of tracing still needs to happen.

My concern is the pushing for the uptake in the app points to uneasiness in easing restrictions. If they are uneasy with easing restrictions - DON'T!! If we have an large outbreak again 2 things will happen.

1) The next shutdown will be longer and possibly more limiting.
2) People will be less likely to co-operate again

The other thing about the app is that many smart phones are owned by large companies (including mine). Many of these companies do not want extra apps on their phones.

There will be subsequent infections, it’s just the nature of this thing that can be a long period without showing symptoms. NZ have had a longer stricter lock down and won’t hit 0 any time soon.

As you say this is a tool, it will speed up a very manual process of tracing and allow the authorities to reach people they might not have known an infected individual crossed paths with which is a huge win for addressing any localised flare ups.
 

turbo

Well-Known Member
I work in IT and am happy to take the word of developers and security specialists that have decompiled the app and shown there’s nothing to worry about. The tech sector tends to lean left overall so they won’t be sweeping LNP bs under the rug if there was something to hide. Every update will be scrutinised closely.

On the privacy front there’s a few things to consider:
  • If the government wants to track you they already have the means. Abusing those measures would be just as illegal as abusing this app.
  • The vast majority of people worried about privacy do not have a small digital footprint and already willingly give up their data to Facebook, apple, google and whatever dodgy app developers they find in the app/play store or on Facebook quizzes
  • The nature of the data stored doesn’t really make for an appealing target for hackers. If they want names and numbers theres better targets to get them from
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
So, the app doesn't work yet because health officials have no idea how to access or use the data. Not only that, but it interferes with other apps - including blood glucose monitoring software, they haven't completed IT testing, and they still haven't worked out the privacy rules.


More than 4 million people have downloaded the COVIDSafe app, but the information it collects is not yet available to state and territory health officials.

Key points:
  • The app will not be fully functional until states and territories finalise data rules
  • More than 4 million Australians have downloaded the app already
  • App downloads will be a key discussion point when National Cabinet decides whether to ease restrictions
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has called the contact-tracing app a vital tool in protecting Australians against coronavirus.

But the ABC has confirmed that if a person tests positive to coronavirus today, the information on their app will not be passed on to contact tracers, because states and territories are still working out how the system will operate.

"The rules on privacy are being finalised, along with final IT testing," a Department of Health spokesman said.

"The system will be operational next week ahead of the decision on possible easing of restrictions."

Deputy Chief Medical Officer Michael Kidd conceded there had been a delay in health officials being able to access the data.

"This [the app] has been implemented very quickly," he said.

"What we're doing is making sure that the operations are going to work appropriately and safely, but also [making] sure that the people in the contact-tracing facilities in the states and territories are trained on how to use the app, and how to use it appropriately."

He said the app was already logging users' close contacts, and that information could be accessed at a later date.

"That facility is still to go live, that will be happening during the current week," Professor Kidd said.
"But the important thing is that if people have downloaded the app and they have it running in the background on their phone, it's already gathering details of people you've been in close contact with.

"There's a delay from now until when the contact tracer in the state or territory where you are based has activated the system."

Questions about interference with other apps
News of the delay came as the Government confirmed it was looking into concerns COVIDSafe could interfere with health apps.


Diabetes Australia has received reports from a number of people who said they experienced connection problems with their continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) apps after downloading COVIDSafe.

A spokesman for Health Minister Greg Hunt said the matter was being examined by the Department of Health and the Digital Transformation Agency.

Diabetes Australia has recommended people temporarily uninstall COVIDSafe if they are concerned.

Professor Kidd said while officials would continue to determine whether there was a clash between the apps, people should prioritise the use of CGM apps

"That is the number one priority for those people," he said.

"While we sort out between the two different apps, whether there is any clash, it's most important that people are managing their diabetes, and doing so safely."
PM pushes rapid downloads
COVIDSafe works by using Bluetooth technology to log when a person comes into close contact with others who have downloaded it.

If one of those people tests positive to COVID-19, a contact tracer will ask permission to access the data collected on the app.

People who have been in close contact with the confirmed case will then be contacted.

The app can store 21 days' worth of contact information.

Coronavirus update: Follow the latest news in our daily wrap.
"Every Australian will be safer if those health officers [the contact tracers] are able to contact you more quickly if you have been exposed to the coronavirus and, importantly, that means that you will be less at risk of infecting others if they can get to you fast," Mr Morrison said last month.

Friday the PM urged all Australians to download COVIDSafe, saying the sooner they did so, the sooner they would be able to go to the pub.

Coronavirus questions answered
An illustration of a cell on an orange background with the word 'coronacast' overlayed.
Breaking down the latest news and research to understand how the world is living through an epidemic, this is the ABC's Coronacast podcast.
Read more


"It's like putting on sunscreen when you go out into the blazing sun. You can't go out in the blazing sun unless you've got that protection in place," he said.

National Cabinet has agreed to consider relaxing social distancing restrictions when it meets next Friday, but this will only occur if more Australians download COVIDSafe.

The Federal Government had previously said that 40 per cent of the population would have to sign up to the app for it to be effective, but now officials will not put a figure on it.

"We need as many people as possible to download the app … having 4 million people who have already downloaded in six days provides a fantastic baseline for us to start working from," Professor Kidd said.

COVIDSafe is supported by all state and territory governments and also has the backing of key health groups such as the Australian Medical Association and the Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation.
 

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