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What's the issue with dead ball?

ballantyne

Well-Known Member
Something that's been puzzling me for a while is why, over say 4 years, a total of what 50 players? none of them can make good use of the dead ball?
CCM has been atrocious at penalties since Jedi left, I know, but that's a psychologically challenging task. But corners and free kicks carry nothing like that freight.
How hard can it be for a professional footballer to skilfully kick a stationary ball?
My theory: there isn't much time for it at training, and because of the way this league is set up, there's only weak incentives for hard work on your own.
But I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
Something that's been puzzling me for a while is why, over say 4 years, a total of what 50 players? none of them can make good use of the dead ball?
CCM has been atrocious at penalties since Jedi left, I know, but that's a psychologically challenging task. But corners and free kicks carry nothing like that freight.
How hard can it be for a professional footballer to skilfully kick a stationary ball?
My theory: there isn't much time for it at training, and because of the way this league is set up, there's only weak incentives for hard work on your own.
But I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I thought it was only me.......... but it must have something to do with the coaching staff as well. Hoole was so bad yet okon and even mm do not seem to want better. Ripping it into the mixer is not my idea of a satisfactorally taken kick, placing it too close to the keeper on a cnr is also a brain fade for my money.
But you can see a frailty of skill in the nba as well. It amazes me the number of multimillion dollar players that can’t shoot frre throws.
Goodwin’s level of ability should be a minimum for the a-league.
 

ballantyne

Well-Known Member
But you can see a frailty of skill in the nba as well. It amazes me the number of multimillion dollar players that can’t shoot frre throws.
I heard something, I think on This American Life, about the greatest free thrower of all time, Cliff Someone I think, who threw underarm. The show reckoned that no other player would do it because it was unorthodox and girly.
 

ballantyne

Well-Known Member
Every training session I have been to there has been numerous players staying back to practice corners and free kicks.
Well that's my theory, then! Are they practising the kicks or the routines though? You have to admit that the number of dead balls banged in low to the first defender could improve. If the training is there, I don't see the results on the field.
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
I heard something, I think on This American Life, about the greatest free thrower of all time, Cliff Someone I think, who threw underarm. The show reckoned that no other player would do it because it was unorthodox and girly.

That was the way they took frees pre 1965. My first junior rep coach took them that way (Latvian I think he was). He was horrified after a visit from a mormon yankee team visited and held coaching clinics teaching us the overhand way of shooting. 55 years later I can still shoot 8/10 from the line.

Just heard a commentator on the golf say every golfer practices putting thinking the dream that the putt they are taking is to win the championship. My basketball coach used to say every shot we took it was 99 all with one second to play.
I cannot believe watching the ccm warmup with most players just stroking the ball about indiscriminately ........ practising their lethargy :doh:
 

priorpeter

Well-Known Member
It really does amaze me how I can drink 16 schooners, 10 vodka red bulls, 4 tequila sunrises and 6 jager bombs, round it off with maccas at 2am and rock up on a football pitch at 10am in the pissing rain and can swing a corner in.... Yet a player earning 250k a year who is paid to play football can’t.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Disagree. Freekick and corner execution is all about practice, nothing more.

Set piece tactical training is a different thing altogether.
Well....if they're practicing.....and are still no good.......then.........................

I wonder though. See, if you're 'practicing' (aka post-training kickabout) then it doesn't matter how many you screw up. Get a couple right, it's all good.

We've seen countless basic errors on the field. Corners that go to the first defender, free kicks going to the wall or the keeper, crosses that can't get past the defender 5 yards on the inside.

Now, I'm assuming that every single player guilty of those things CAN get them right at training.

But when we say CAN, how many times out of 10? Out of 20?

What's different on a game? Is it mentality? Is it skills dropping as fatigue sets in? Pressure?

If these things are part of coaching, then the coaching team should (though it seems, via onfield performance, that this isn't happening with anything) be refusing to let fatigue be an excuse for poor kicks. When you're doing the post-training kickabout, a couple of good ones out of 20 is fine. If you have the coaching staff kicking your arse, a couple of bad ones out of 20 is still too many.

Is that one of the difference between our team, and the ones that remain more clinical on the field?
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
Well....if they're practicing.....and are still no good.......then.........................

I wonder though. See, if you're 'practicing' (aka post-training kickabout) then it doesn't matter how many you screw up. Get a couple right, it's all good.

We've seen countless basic errors on the field. Corners that go to the first defender, free kicks going to the wall or the keeper, crosses that can't get past the defender 5 yards on the inside.

Now, I'm assuming that every single player guilty of those things CAN get them right at training.

But when we say CAN, how many times out of 10? Out of 20?

What's different on a game? Is it mentality? Is it skills dropping as fatigue sets in? Pressure?

If these things are part of coaching, then the coaching team should (though it seems, via onfield performance, that this isn't happening with anything) be refusing to let fatigue be an excuse for poor kicks. When you're doing the post-training kickabout, a couple of good ones out of 20 is fine. If you have the coaching staff kicking your arse, a couple of bad ones out of 20 is still too many.

Is that one of the difference between our team, and the ones that remain more clinical on the field?

Last night Mooy took a couple towards the end that were not good enough. Very hoolish as a matter of fact.

Like I alluded to before .......... every time a kick is taken .......... it has to be as if the kickers life is depending on it ...... otherwise he is just practicing his lethargy........... the same with all drills and warmups. If you practice being so-so ......... you will be so-so.
I hate cnr kicks being wasted by kicking too close to the keeper. Wtf. Such an important part of the game and nobody pays attention to it.
Like throw ins........... all that crap about retaining possession when throwins are a lottery and neednot be. :doh:
 

Antlion

Well-Known Member
When under stress/pressure the level to which you perform is less than the skill you show when you practice.

Maybe they need to train under some stress. Bad dead ball costs you $5, good one puts you in credit $5. Pressure is on every ball. Free go for experimental kicks in order not to curb creativity.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
When under stress/pressure the level to which you perform is less than the skill you show when you practice.

Maybe they need to train under some stress. Bad dead ball costs you $5, good one puts you in credit $5. Pressure is on every ball. Free go for experimental kicks in order not to curb creativity.

Yep, and I think this might be where the 'culture of accepting failure' comes into it.
I find myself increasingly wondering if the entire coaching staff should have been replaced.
If you have a business with a poor workplace culture, you can't change it by replacing all the front-line staff.

You're right about pressure. The teams that win GF cross/kick just as well in the 93rd minute of a 1-1 match than they do in the first 20 minutes of a training session.

Was it the 2nd game when Tommy Oar was infuriating us all - kept making good runs down the wing, but kicked it into his covering defender every time when making a cross.

Now, a player at this level should be capable of making a cross.

So, either at training he's getting them right but isn't being trained in a manner that puts real pressure on him - or he's not getting them right at training and isn't being held accountable, or nobody's taking the time to figure out why.

Even practicing opposed drill at training still isn't the same as a game because there's nothing riding on it. So how does the club make it the same? Is it simply ensuring the physical intensity is there coupled with accountability?

Just one example - don't mean to pick on Oar here.

It's not enough to get a couple of players with some 'mongrel' and hope they put that on the field.

Do the coaching staff have any mongrel?

I've never seen a training session, but I wonder how the intensity in our first couple of years may have compared to the last couple. Certainly our fitness in the last few seasons has been a problem whereas one of our priorities at the start was being the fittest team on the paddock.
 

Offsider

Well-Known Member
To my mind it is all about attitude and character. A player has to want ..... and be prepared to sacrifice to develope the skill to be the best.
When I see a young player turn out with a new hairdo, tattoos etc .......... it is an indication that he has stopped sacrificing. He has started imitating the players at the top level that have earned their position with their level of skill. It is from this point that they stop developing ...... going to the next level.

There is no such character trait as “mongrel” ........... and to select somebody to bring the mongrel back is delussional. Players renowned for their “mongrel” are usually technical deficient and bridging the gap with physicality. You don’t hear of players at world cups or epl elite being referred to as having mongrel.......... muscat is the exception and he won the rating as the most hated person in the league.

I hope goodwin gets a run against lebanon and gets the cnr duty.
 

Antlion

Well-Known Member
To my mind it is all about attitude and character. A player has to want ..... and be prepared to sacrifice to develope the skill to be the best.
When I see a young player turn out with a new hairdo, tattoos etc .......... it is an indication that he has stopped sacrificing. He has started imitating the players at the top level that have earned their position with their level of skill. It is from this point that they stop developing ...... going to the next level.

There is no such character trait as “mongrel” ........... and to select somebody to bring the mongrel back is delussional. Players renowned for their “mongrel” are usually technical deficient and bridging the gap with physicality. You don’t hear of players at world cups or epl elite being referred to as having mongrel.......... muscat is the exception and he won the rating as the most hated person in the league.

I hope goodwin gets a run against lebanon and gets the cnr duty.
I agree - you see players who are already at the top of their game who decide - and succeed in -mastering a new skill.
Rooney comes to mind. Already a world class striker he decided he wanted to become more proficient putting them away with his head. We saw how that panned out. But the truth is he worked and worked on it and took responsibility for it to make it so
 

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