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Round 20 - Adelaide v CCM @ Coopers

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I dunno how most of the underage roos speak so highly then. Most being the operative word. Not that they won under him though.
If he is a standoffish type that speaks to the problem of them not playing his way.

Young players ALWAYS speak highly of their NT coach. No way Okon is a warm open book kinda guy imo.

I was always unsure of the Musti incident and I remember hearing that around the traps that Okon was a hard task master. That can be ok.
But obviously not always.
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Roy O Donavan last year
Paul this year
Anyone else notice the similarities

Yeah you’re bloody right. There must be an offer of some kind. Based on all his previous behaviour he should be going ballistic now on the sidelines if he was fighting for his job and he’s finally winning a game but you can see it slipping and he watches calmly...

Whereas beating sydney early on was like we’d won the league for him.
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
Roy O Donavan last year
Paul this year
Anyone else notice the similarities
Been thinking about that ever since he so adeptly avoided the contract question on the podcast. Straight after that followed rumours sfc were interested. Around the same time his sideline passion dropped markedly...

Coincidence? Possibly, of course. But I actually don't think he'll be our coach next season anyway.

Of course, as I've said before, if there are any ownership talks occurring all contract talks could be on hold - which would explain a lot about our player signings too. My gut says that is a low probably answer though
 
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Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I have to say that I have personally been reluctant to advocate for another coach change, after having done so with both Moss and Walmsley, primarily due to the upheaval that brings with it but I now see no other option.

Here are a few things for those that are still on the fence to ponder.

There is a drinking culture at play with a part of the playing group that Okon has utterly failed to deal with despite knowing about it and in one case, it may allegedly be even more serious than that. How can those players possibly deliver their best for the team and us as fans?

Neither he or Jolic allegedly make any effort to develop or even relate to any of the players outside of the starting group of 11-14 and they are simply left to sit on the fringes until they find a better offer like Ascroft. Even a talent like DDS has arguably gone backwards under our current coach, which should never have been allowed to happen.

He allegedly will not follow the recommendations of his strength and conditioning coach and then wonders why the team can’t remain focused and competitive in games like last night. For example he and Jolic are understood to have flatly refused to allow double training seasons in pre-season, as many other HAL clubs were doing, thus meaning the team were behind the curve from the outset. Apparently this was due to him being concerned about overloading the players hmmm.

By firstly dumping Hutch (without even actually speaking to him) and then sidelining Monty, he removed the last of the real Mariners’ cultural reference points, with the result being the team capitulating more often than showing the sort of spirit our teams of old possessed in spades.

When we are at the wrong end of the table, with our finals hopes hanging by a thread, he gives the players three days off, despite having only recently bemoaned the lack of time to work on the tactical aspect of games. If the team were second from top of the league not second from bottom, I think we could all accept them being given the reward of an extended break but that is not the case is it? When things aren’t going well, I always thought that was when it was time to work even harder to produce an upturn but I might have got that wrong it seems.

His tactical inflexibility and/or naivety has been there for all to see week in week out. Whilst the players must accept some of the responsibility for the team’s collective failures in certain areas, in many cases, their perceived lack of cohesion/ability is a direct result of their instructions from the coach.

For all of the above reasons and a whole lot more besides, I am sorry to say that the Okon experiment is a failure in my opinion.

I know that some folks will defend him for various reasons but the stark reality is that he simply isn’t up to scratch and to be frank, SFC are welcome to him.

The fans’ patience is all but used up and there clearly needs to be a fundamental shift in the way the team is managed going forward. Perhaps it is time to ask someone who truly knows what it means to be a Mariner to take the reins? If so, I would suggest that someone like Monty and/or even Hutch should be approached, as surely there would be no doubt about the reinstatement of our cultural values should that come to pass.

Note to Shaun & MC, there can be no more false dawns or moneyball gambles. The very fabric and future of this proud club is at the edge of the abyss and you need to take drastic steps to address that, or all will be lost. If that sounds dramatic, then it is but the situation facing us is dire and decisive action is needed. There is no more latitude, you have no more collateral to burn. Now is the time to show that you know how much we are all hurting and bloody well do something about it that will inspire us fans to believe that better days are truly ahead, not paper over the cracks with mealy mouthed political spin and mistruths. You have reached the bottom of the pit and we are now all looking to you to show us the way to climb out of it.

Lot of great stuff in this post OH but the only reason I didn't rate this winner is there are a lot of things I just don't know for myself and have to take you at your word about. I'm assuming you can't reveal your sources?
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
No prejudice at all on my part and I would personally prefer we didn’t have to change coaches again but the behind the scenes issue are not imagined or fabricated I’m afraid.

I have nothing against Okon per se but he has been on watch for the last bit of the dismantling our supposed culture, so he does need to be held accountable for his part in that.

He is also responsible for what goes on behind the scenes regardless of the financial constraints he is operating within, so my intentions were only to open people’s eyes to that.

Appreciate the clarification.
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
Something has definitely changed in the last few weeks. There is a distinct lack of belief and confidence on the field.

Whether it is just the realisation that the top 6 is beyond us:
Whether it is not being able to snag a striker in Jan.:
Whether it is approaches to Okon from SFC:
Whether it is certain players being on the outer:
Or all of the above, or something else entirely.

But it is obvious "there is something rotten in the state of Denmark" and it shows.
 
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Ozhammer

Well-Known Member
Lot of great stuff in this post OH but the only reason I didn't rate this winner is there are a lot of things I just don't know for myself and have to take you at your word about. I'm assuming you can't reveal your sources?
I can assure everyone on here that I am not the sort of person who gets a kick out of throwing fuel on a burning fire and my post was simply intended to let our fans know the unacceptable truth about what has been going on behind the scenes.

Whilst I obviously can’t reveal my sources, they are trustworthy and I certainly would not have posted if I had any doubt about the veracity of the information.

I truly wish that Okon had been the next Arnie in our history and genuinely wanted him to be successful for all our sakes but we are approaching the edge of a cliff here folks and we at least deserve to be allowed to go over the precipice with our eyes wide open.

If the club renew Okon’s contract, I have very grave reservations about next season and beyond. The scary thing is that had he bought in a half decent goal scorer, we would probably all be singing his praises but the rotting foundations would still have been there, just not as obvious.

Our club is in the last chance saloon in many respects right now and management simply have to have the courage to make the right decision, not the convenient one, or we may go beyond the point of no return.

To put it bluntly, we simply cannot even contemplate another season like the last three, which perhaps more worryingly, have failed to even approach our fans’ very modest expectations. Everyone at the club needs to be held to account for the situation we are in and find the fortitude to dig their way out of it, so we can once again be proud to say we are Mariners.
 
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style_cafe

Well-Known Member
It`s very sad to read all the negative comments but without them nothing will change.
Okon has brought into our club a much better style of football than the previous 2 coaches & apart from the finishing touches we have been playing in the acceptable range.
It is obvious to everyone that the striker position is our problem.
In Okon`s defence we don`t have the money to buy a decent one.
Skapetis looks half decent at the moment, better than Powell at least.
Also, why haven`t we been trialing a few of the decent NPL strikers?
Surely that would put the pressure on the strikers we already have.

Conversely, the Okon coaching situation needs to be sorted right now!
If he is here next year then at least players would be on notice they are playing for a position.
We have the nucleus of a decent squad already, it`s the fringe players that are killing us.
Players like Roux with such poor defensive decisions or TBT missing an open goal to seal the match.
It rips the heart out of the other players.

We are not dead & dusted for this season as yet.
We won`t make the finals, but we can improve our position on the table significantly.

I`ll definitely be there against the NUX.
MARINER`s Til I Die...
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
I used to agree that the striker position was the problem but I don't think it is anymore.
It's our system. We just don't, and probably never will, have the players for it.

We get into or close to the box regularly. Where about 10 defenders are waiting to shut us down. What we are asking for is a player that can then pry open that maze and create a goal. We are just not going to get a Messi quality player in the A-League who is capable of this several times every game.
Why? Our system slows down our attack. We get the ball, pass it around prettily, the opposition defence organises itself and THEN we try and crack through it. We've only really scored this year off fast transition play. Look at all of our best goals.
Having to crack set defences is beyond our midfielders and will be beyond the majority of strikers we could afford.

In any good team your striker scores a bunch and the mids add the equivalent between them. Even with a great striker who could score in this system our mids can't score. We still fall short of the requisite goals for the season.

So, to reiterate - it's our system. We just don't, and probably never will, have the players for it. This is on the coach to adjust to.
If he doesn't - the buck stops with him.
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
Thinking back, one of the proudest aspects of the Mariners in my eyes was their fighting, never say die, spirit.
I think it would be worth getting one of the old players back in as a "culture consultant". To grab some collars and say we don't take a backward step and we fight till the final whistle. Someone like Monty, Hutch, Simon..etc.
It is/was part of our identity. It was organic, it developed naturally over time and wasn't a marketing ploy pushed on us from outside.
The club should be taking strong steps to nurture that culture and not lose it.
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
It`s very sad to read all the negative comments but without them nothing will change.
Okon has brought into our club a much better style of football than the previous 2 coaches & apart from the finishing touches we have been playing in the acceptable range.
It is obvious to everyone that the striker position is our problem.
In Okon`s defence we don`t have the money to buy a decent one.
Skapetis looks half decent at the moment, better than Powell at least.
Also, why haven`t we been trialing a few of the decent NPL strikers?
Surely that would put the pressure on the strikers we already have.

Conversely, the Okon coaching situation needs to be sorted right now!
If he is here next year then at least players would be on notice they are playing for a position.
We have the nucleus of a decent squad already, it`s the fringe players that are killing us.
Players like Roux with such poor defensive decisions or TBT missing an open goal to seal the match.
It rips the heart out of the other players.

We are not dead & dusted for this season as yet.
We won`t make the finals, but we can improve our position on the table significantly.

I`ll definitely be there against the NUX.
MARINER`s Til I Die...

That was exactly my position until the weekend style. And it’s nice to see someone holding out hope, but what do you make of Ozhammers info and also Okon recent lack of passion?

Also I really struggle with his comments that the problem against AU was we’ve forgotten how to win. Lot of irony there as a coaches defence against why they lost.

But I think he just thinks he’s being accurate.

Storms blunders, missing goals and unforced errors have nothing to do with ‘having forgotten how to win’ though.
 

Ozhammer

Well-Known Member
To follow on from the above, I have also just learned that Okon had a full on crack at landing the WSW job after Popa upped and left (apparently he and Tsatsimas are pretty friendly), so why should MC (or any of us for that matter) show him any loyalty?

I could say much more but I would no doubt be accused of being on a crusade or being pissed that Okon ran over my cat. I have only exposed the tip of the iceberg on this thread and to be honest it is eating me up to be so negative.

We need a new coach, someone who cares as much about the club as we do, or at the very least understands the dynamics at play. Can MC not reach out to someone like Hutch or even Monty? Yes they are novice coaches but let’s not forget so was Okon when he was signed. Hutch just got promoted to head coach of Seattle’s S2 team, so he must be doing something right over there and if anyone understands the Mariners’ culture he would.
 

Timmah

Well-Known Member
That was exactly my position until the weekend style. And it’s nice to see someone holding out hope, but what do you make of Ozhammers info and also Okon recent lack of passion?

Also I really struggle with his comments that the problem against AU was we’ve forgotten how to win. Lot of irony there as a coaches defence against why they lost.

But I think he just thinks he’s being accurate.

Storms blunders, missing goals and unforced errors have nothing to do with ‘having forgotten how to win’ though.
The second half and the way we faded was hard to watch but the team running around in the first half looked better than I'd seen in several months.

Did we get complacent, do we lack the mental fortitude to close out 90'? I don't know what it is but as OH suggests it seems deep-rooted
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
To follow on from the above, I have also just learned that Okon had a full on crack at landing the WSW job after Popa upped and left (apparently he and Tsatsimas are pretty friendly), so why should MC (or any of us for that matter) show him any loyalty?

I could say much more but I would no doubt be accused of being on a crusade or being pissed that Okon ran over my cat. I have only exposed the tip of the iceberg on this thread and to be honest it is eating me up to be so negative.

If it is eating you up it is better to bring it out in the open. You are among friends.

When things are going pear shaped the main purpose of a fan forum is goo feasting.

Come on, spill the beans and let us all revel in them.

 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
To follow on from the above, I have also just learned that Okon had a full on crack at landing the WSW job after Popa upped and left (apparently he and Tsatsimas are pretty friendly), so why should MC (or any of us for that matter) show him any loyalty?

I could say much more but I would no doubt be accused of being on a crusade or being pissed that Okon ran over my cat. I have only exposed the tip of the iceberg on this thread and to be honest it is eating me up to be so negative.

We need a new coach, someone who cares as much about the club as we do, or at the very least understands the dynamics at play. Can MC not reach out to someone like Hutch or even Monty? Yes they are novice coaches but let’s not forget so was Okon when he was signed. Hutch just got promoted to head coach of Seattle’s S2 team, so he must be doing something right over there and if anyone understands the Mariners’ culture he would.
I've found your posts informative and helpful to be honest
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
Me starts to wonder if maybe it's the club holding off on extending Okon's contract

Poor results being one thing, but also if he tried to jump ship mid-contract they may not be pleased with that either
 

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